Water pump failure leads to dead engine

[MrHarryReems]

Actually, that's not an uncommon issue with this motor, and would have deterred me from buying the vehicle if I couldn't get an extended warranty. If you do a search and cruise through the water pump threads, someone had a source to buy a new motor for around $3600~.

 

[peterk9]

I own a 2011 Ford Explorer Limited. I am beside myself right now, 2 weeks ago my water pump went and I limped it to the dealer. At first they said my water pump exploded and the estimate went from $700 to $2,800. After being there almost 2 weeks, I've just been informed my motor is blown. There were no warning signs such as overheating nor did the engine light come on so I'm having a really hard time grasping this news. I just read on another site that someone else had the same problem. I'm looking at a bill to replace the motor with a used one (59,000 miles) for a minimum of $5,000. Has anyone else had this issue?

Welcome to the Forum Patricia.
Your thread was merged with this one found using the Forum's handy 'Search' feature in the upper right. As you can see, there are other members that have had the same issue. While this issue has happened to some, it is not a common one. You can also get a new engine for around $3000 plus installation. http://www.explorerforum.com/xenfor...ds-to-dead-engine.424482/page-15#post-3647202
Good luck.

Peter

 

[blwnsmoke]

First, sorry to hear about your issue.

Why is it blown? You need to ask more questions... if yo u drove it there, I'm not sure why it would be blown. Did the pump leak internally into the engine? If so, was there metal fragments in the motor/oil? Was there coolant in the oil?

A new motor from Ford is $3,800. How the hell are they charging $5,000 for a used motor? Is this at a Ford dealership? Im very suspect of what they are telling you.

 

[Patricia Brochu]

First, sorry to hear about your issue.

Why is it blown? You need to ask more questions... if yo u drove it there, I'm not sure why it would be blown. Did the pump leak internally into the engine? If so, was there metal fragments in the motor/oil? Was there coolant in the oil?

A new motor from Ford is $3,800. How the hell are they charging $5,000 for a used motor? Is this at a Ford dealership? Im very suspect of what they are telling you.

I asked all the same questions that you have. Coolant was full, it was leaking from the back of the Waterpump when I brought it to the Dealership. Supposedly the water pump blew up and parts/fragments from it went into the motor including the oil. The Dealership wanted to charge me $5,000 for a "new" motor and $2,900 for a used one w/59k miles. Their total quote was $6,700 which include a 1-yr warranty ONLY on the parts. I had it towed to another mechanic who just put a used motor with approximately same miles for $3,700. which includes a 1 yr warranty on parts AND Labor. I will hopefully trade it once I recover from this expense.

 

[Patricia Brochu]

the 3.5 has an 'internal' water pump. It is driven by the timing chain and is under the timing cover. when that leaks, it leaks into the engine oil system directly. it obviously doesn't take much to ruin the lube oil properties with water and glycol mix.

from here the oil pump picks up the contaminated lube oil and pumps through the engine...crankshaft mains, connecting rods, and cam shaft journals are all almost equally and identically affected. The check engine code can come from misfires or an out of sequence cam timing. This is due to the cam shaft phasers not working properly due to loss of oil pressure (because the engine bearings are coming apart).

I hope this helps clarify the technical basis.

This sucks big time for the OP. this is a very rare failure. Being a former dealership tech myself, I am super shocked they aren't working with you on this. I mean c'mon here they can't pay for at least a portion of this?

lesson learned for me: WATCH THAT COOLANT COOLANT LEVEL!

I'm spoiled to driving ford modular V-8s. The external water pump is a 30 minute job and easy to see a leak on.

Thank you for that explanation, now I understand the issue better but sounds like a poor engine design to make this happen. I've had to replace water pumps in the past when engine light came on and vehicle was overheating. I've always maintained my vehicles faithfully so I was really blown away when this happened. Now I will make sure that what ever I buy in the future, will definitely have an external water pump!!!

 

[Sixonemale]

Thank you for that explanation, now I understand the issue better but sounds like a poor engine design to make this happen. I've had to replace water pumps in the past when engine light came on and vehicle was overheating. I've always maintained my vehicles faithfully so I was really blown away when this happened. Now I will make sure that what ever I buy in the future, will definitely have an external water pump!!!

I'm very sorry to hear about your water pump failing without warning that caused catastrophic damage to your engine. It's an incredibly poor design that leaves the owner on the hook for either paying about $1,600 to have the water pump, a $40 part, replaced if detected early enough or in your case having it fail with no warning at all resulting in a seized engine that could cost on the low end for a used engine with labor about what you paid, $3,700 to around $7,000 for a new engine which is dependent on what area of the country you live in. I'm just guessing that this is the first car/truck you've ever owned where you had to replace the entire engine. Thus far in the several vehicles I've owned into high mileage, four of which were Fords, I've never had to replace an engine.

I personally think Ford should be fully responsible for the cost of replacing any engine that seizes before the 150,000 mark due to the internal water pump failing without warning. I unfortunately did not do enough due diligence and found out about this design after purchasing my vehicle. If I had known about this design while shopping for cars I never would have purchased a fifth generation Explorer. I have recently been in conversations with my wife in regard to selling it mainly due to this design issue, not to mention the potential exhaust in the cabin issue that is currently being investigated.

 

[Forddealz]

I am guessing the engine he is getting is complete (injectors, spark plugs, alternator etc). As opposed to needing just the block and reusing the good external parts.

However, being the minimal difference if I'm correct in the above, I would go his route and have everything new.

But it definitely doesn't take 3 days to swap a motor out if it is coming complete...

Also, there would be no core charge because the dealer keeps the old one and sends it back.

I had the same problem, I went in for my 14K miles oil change and then they said that I require a fluid's need to replaced, paid $260 or so but 80 percent was for work hours done. It's so strange, I was out of the dealership after waiting in line in less then 2 hours and got charged a little over $200 in labor.
Maybe its a good idea to find a local indie shop to take out engine in case water pump fails as they will charge you 1/4th of what we pay at Ford dealership.

 

[Patricia Brochu]

I'm very sorry to hear about your water pump failing without warning that caused catastrophic damage to your engine. It's an incredibly poor design that leaves the owner on the hook for either paying about $1,600 to have the water pump, a $40 part, replaced if detected early enough or in your case having it fail with no warning at all resulting in a seized engine that could cost on the low end for a used engine with labor about what you paid, $3,700 to around $7,000 for a new engine which is dependent on what area of the country you live in. I'm just guessing that this is the first car/truck you've ever owned where you had to replace the entire engine. Thus far in the several vehicles I've owned into high mileage, four of which were Fords, I've never had to replace an engine.

I personally think Ford should be fully responsible for the cost of replacing any engine that seizes before the 150,000 mark due to the internal water pump failing without warning. I unfortunately did not do enough due diligence and found out about this design after purchasing my vehicle. If I had known about this design while shopping for cars I never would have purchased a fifth generation Explorer. I have recently been in conversations with my wife in regard to selling it mainly due to this design issue, not to mention the potential exhaust in the cabin issue that is currently being investigated.

Yeah, didn't exactly make my day and coming up with that kind of money wasn't easy. This was a $42K vehicle brand new and this should never have happened, you're right POOR design on Fords part and I agree Ford should take responsibility for it! This is my 3rd explorer in 15 years (I also had a Bronco back in the day) and I never had any engine issues. I was thinking about trading it in for a newer one but not so sure I want another one unless it has a bigger motor with the external water pump. My gas mileage is no better than my husbands Ford truck with a bigger motor either. I still owe $6,000 on it too so it will take awhile to recover from this. :-( Thank you for your kind words.

 

[Patricia Brochu]

Yeah, didn't exactly make my day and coming up with that kind of money wasn't easy. This was a $42K vehicle brand new and this should never have happened, you're right POOR design on Fords part and I agree Ford should take responsibility for it! This is my 3rd explorer in 15 years (I also had a Bronco back in the day) and I never had any engine issues. I was thinking about trading it in for a newer one but not so sure I want another one unless it has a bigger motor with the external water pump. My gas mileage is no better than my husbands Ford truck with a bigger motor either. I still owe $6,000 on it too so it will take awhile to recover from this. :-( Thank you for your kind words.

I forgot to mention that the garage that replaced my motor only charged me $888 for labor, while the dealership wanted to charge me $3,700. What a rip off the dealerships are!

 

[peterk9]

I forgot to mention that the garage that replaced my motor only charged me $888 for labor, while the dealership wanted to charge me $3,700. What a rip off the dealerships are!

Probably due to having to pay union wages.

 

[Sixonemale]

I forgot to mention that the garage that replaced my motor only charged me $888 for labor, while the dealership wanted to charge me $3,700. What a rip off the dealerships are!

Probably due to having to pay union wages.

Maybe partially due to union wages, but I would also guess this enormous mark-up is based on book time vs the actual time it will take to do the job.

 

[blwnsmoke]

To replace a built motor, no tear down, you should be in the 13-15 hour range. So a independent at $50-$60 an hour seems about right. A dealership at $120 an hour is double that. $3,700 in labor is insane.. they are trying to say it takes 30 hours to replace a motor.

How does it take 30 hours when it is 16-18 hours for a water pump replacement with tear down.

That's why I was very suspect from the beginning of them from yourbppst. I still question whether you needed a new motor

 

[MrHarryReems]

To replace a built motor, no tear down, you should be in the 13-15 hour range. So a independent at $50-$60 an hour seems about right. A dealership at $120 an hour is double that. $3,700 in labor is insane.. they are trying to say it takes 30 hours to replace a motor.

How does it take 30 hours when it is 16-18 hours for a water pump replacement with tear down.

That's why I was very suspect from the beginning of them from yourbppst. I still question whether you needed a new motor

$50-$60 an hour? That was the rate decades ago. I haven't seen anything under $100/hr in years.

 

[bigtexan99]

If the water pump fails and you are under warranty, either the original 3/36 or extended up to 7/100, does the warranty cover the repair and/or new engine if needed?

 

[MrHarryReems]

If the water pump fails and you are under warranty, either the original 3/36 or extended up to 7/100, does the warranty cover the repair and/or new engine if needed?

Yes.

 

[1995E]

If the water pump fails and you are under warranty, either the original 3/36 or extended up to 7/100, does the warranty cover the repair and/or new engine if needed?

It is covered under the powertrain warranty 5Y/60K miles.

 

[Sixonemale]

What's with the survey or poll at the top of this thread, who put it there and why was 95,000 miles chosen? Other than periodic cooling inspections, the only requirement for the cooling system is to change the coolant at 100,000 miles, so why should it not say 150,000 miles in the survey or poll.

Survey/Poll

Should Ford cover part of all of this repair out of loyalty?

Yes, a water pump failure at 95k should not destroy an engine

11 vote(s) 84.6%

No, and please quit whining about it

2 vote(s) 15.4%

 

[MrHarryReems]

What's with the survey or poll at the top of this thread, who put it there and why was 95,000 miles chosen? Other than periodic cooling inspections, the only requirement for the cooling system is to change the coolant at 100,000 miles, so why should it not say 150,000 miles in the survey or poll.

Survey/Poll

Should Ford cover part of all of this repair out of loyalty?

Yes, a water pump failure at 95k should not destroy an engine

11 vote(s) 84.6%

No, and please quit whining about it

2 vote(s) 15.4%

Good point. After I found out about the water pump issue, I wouldn't have purchased if I weren't able to get a good deal on a very extended ESP plan.

 

[Forddealz]

Water pump failure leaks to dead engine

I just had to post something about the way that Ford is treating my son (tlbig10) with his blown engine due to a water pump failure (see earlier thread). I am not the type to quickly jump in on a problem and start shouting. I like to remain calm and let the problem work its way through the "system". I do not agree with Ford's refusal to help out in any way with this massive engine failure due to a blown water pump. That is not normal for a car with 61,600 miles that is still within the 5 year warranty


When my son called me in the middle of the hot desert east of Indio/Palms Springs 2 weeks ago to tell me that his pristine 2011 Ford Explorer with 61,600 miles was dead, I was really surprised. Since 2001 I have purchased seven (7) used Ford Focus and have been very pleased with the quality of work on the Fords. None of the used Focus that I purchased every had any major problems and I put more than 100K on many of the cars. I drive a 2012 Ford Focus and purchased a 2013 Ford Focus for my daughter last August. I was a Chevy Suburban/Truck owner for 25 years and became a big Ford fan when the economy crashed and Ford told Washington that they were fine and did not need any bailout money like GM and Chrysler. That really meant a lot to me to see an American company forseeing the future and making changes so they did not need any taxpayer dollars to bail them out like GM (Government Motors).

Anyway, if you have read not read the thread about the blown engine that was 1,600 miles over the 60,000 mile warranty, please take a minute to review it. I was sure that Ford would step up and help out tlbig10 with this massive engine failure. The quoted cost to replace the engine - $7,300.00.

TLbig 10 took all of the right steps with Fiesta Ford dealership in Indio where the Explorer was towed and patiently waited to see what Ford was going to say about the blown engine. When the dealership and the local Ford rep in Los Angeles reviewed the case, they turned it down. There was no offer to share in the cost of a new engine from Ford, just a "Sorry, you are over the warranty" response. 1,600 miles over.

It's Fords design and they should cover the cost especially if its difficult to detect the early signs of water pump failing. Its a shame. If this issue does not resolve soon I will probably just trade in my XP Sport for X5 3.5 M package with CPO 100K miles.

 

[Sixonemale]

What's with the survey or poll at the top of this thread, who put it there and why was 95,000 miles chosen? Other than periodic cooling inspections, the only requirement for the cooling system is to change the coolant at 100,000 miles, so why should it not say 150,000 miles in the survey or poll.

Yes, a water pump failure at 95k should not destroy an engine

11 vote(s) 84.6%

Good point. After I found out about the water pump issue, I wouldn't have purchased if I weren't able to get a good deal on a very extended ESP plan.

What I find very odd about the 95,000 miles is that it is 5,000 miles before the coolant flush and after reading several posts on this engine for various models of cars, it's typically after the flush/fill where things sometimes go haywire. I also wonder if the average life of an internal water pump is somewhere just over 100,000 miles or so. I would really like to know what truly is the average life of an internal water pump in these engines.