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Water pump failure leads to dead engine

Should Ford cover part of all of this repair out of loyalty?

  • Yes, a water pump failure at 95k should not destroy an engine

    Votes: 143 87.7%
  • No, and please quit whining about it

    Votes: 20 12.3%

  • Total voters
    163

Turdle

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mattbult

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peterk9

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........ 2) If anyone has had this particular catastrophic failure, please respond and let me know how it was resolved or if Ford was of any assistance in covering the cost.

thanks,

-matt
Hi Matt. Sorry to read about your experience. As Jon pointed out in his post above, there already is an existing thread on this issue where people have posted.

Peter
 






mattbult

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My 2011 explorer limited with 95k miles currently has a failed water pump that destroyed the engine and the dealer is indicating a new engine is required ($7,342.75). Bought the car brand new, serviced at dealer, coolant flushed at the dealer in March of this year. Have the extended 6/100k warranty, but it is expired by five weeks. Stranded us 250 miles from home. First brand new Ford and this issue is really testing my loyalty when it is time for a new car (which, apparently, was a few months ago). BTW, three weeks to get an engine because there are none in stock nationally and they need to build one. I wonder why they ran out of engines?

-m
 






peterk9

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........BTW, three weeks to get an engine because there are none in stock nationally and they need to build one. I wonder why they ran out of engines?

-m
I don't think it is a case of running out of engines as much as it is that it likely isn't a item that is in much of a demand and economics. It would cost them quite a bit to have several engine types sitting around as 'spares'.

Peter
 






mattbult

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I don't think it is a case of running out of engines as much as it is that it likely isn't a item that is in much of a demand and economics. It would cost them quite a bit to have several engine types sitting around as 'spares'.

Peter
The reason I mention it was that the service manager was very surprised that they did not have it in stock an it needed to be built. That has never happened before in his experience. At least that's what he said. He fully expected to have one in hand in a couple days.
 






Sixonemale

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Hey all,

I have a 2011 explorer limited that I bought brand new. First new Ford and I was thrilled. The new design was beautiful, including that triple-coat white, the ride was good, power, myfordtouch... Loved it. It has been a great car for six years. This was a big investment for us so we opted for the extended 6yr/100k warranty through our dealer ($1,650) and we were set. Until a few weeks ago. With $95k on the car and five weeks past the warranty time period the check engine light came on with my wife out of town. Brought it to a local dealer and was told it was a crank/cam sensor problem resultant from a stretched timing chain. Authorized the work and once they got the engine out (yes, engine needed to be removed for this) they found it was full of metal because the water pump disintegrated. Temp gauge never went up, car didn't overheat. Now we need a new engine for $7500 (actually $7,342.75). Again, just a few weeks out of warranty and under on miles. With the car out of town, we don't have a lot of options, so we authorized the replacement. It will take three weeks to get an engine.

I tried everything to get Ford to consider honoring the extended warranty. Before you say boo-hoo too bad your warranty is expired - you lose, when faced with a $7500 bill you would be an idiot not to do everything you can to find some relief, to appeal to Ford's appreciation of loyalty and support of their vehicles. We did everything right, had it serviced at the dealer, in fact, it was at the dealer for servicing just a couple months before this happened and received a clean bill of health.

Anyway, the two reasons I am posting are 1) if you have a 2011 explorer with 90k plus miles I would urge you to consider either selling/trading it or purchasing an extended-extended warranty. 2) If anyone has had this particular catastrophic failure, please respond and let me know how it was resolved or if Ford was of any assistance in covering the cost.

thanks,

-matt

Very sad story and sorry to hear about it. It's astounding that Ford would not do anything about it because IMO, you did everything right. You had your vehicle serviced at the dealership and even purchased a warranty, in addition to that you went with Ford's recommendation to change the coolant before it was required to be changed at 100,000 miles.

It's also shocking when I read someone saying in this forum that water pump failures don't happen that often, BS. There were a couple of recent posts, one by me that stated that service managers are seeing more and more failed water pumps with the Explorers. There was also a website that was posted in the thread "Water Pump Failure Leads to Dead Engine", that was fishing after a class action lawsuit for water pumps failures that lead to seized 3.5L engines that are in many Ford and Lincoln vehicles. The thread I mentioned is novel, but worth reading if you have lots of time.

I couldn't agree with you more in regard to your comment about selling as Explorer before it's too late. I'm always on the edge of listing my Explorer for sale, especially knowing a new design is around the corner that will probably decrease used prices even more. The consumers that will take the largest hit are the ones who purchase the fifth generation Explorers used not knowing about this design flaw, in addition to not understanding just how long turbo assemblies last.
 






blwnsmoke

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My 2011 explorer limited with 95k miles currently has a failed water pump that destroyed the engine and the dealer is indicating a new engine is required ($7,342.75). Bought the car brand new, serviced at dealer, coolant flushed at the dealer in March of this year. Have the extended 6/100k warranty, but it is expired by five weeks. Stranded us 250 miles from home. First brand new Ford and this issue is really testing my loyalty when it is time for a new car (which, apparently, was a few months ago). BTW, three weeks to get an engine because there are none in stock nationally and they need to build one. I wonder why they ran out of engines?

-m

You may want to source the engine from a different dealer. Did you get a cost breakdown of parts vs labor?

$3,000 for a new engine https://parts.autonationfordwhitebe...rim/3-5l-v6-gas-engine/engine-cat/engine-scat

plus roughly 12-15 hours of labor should put you around $4,500. I know you are in a bind but this dealer is trying to hose you over on the $$$. Water pump replacement is not a $2,600 repair.. it should be in the $1,600-$1,800 (yes, still ridiculous) as it is a $70 part and 16 hours of labor or so.

Since they are ordering a new motor, it should be pretty close to drop in.
 






Turdle

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As a preventative maintenance item, I am wondering if a uv dye could be put in the coolant, so when you check the oil you could use the UV light which should show if the coolant is getting into the oil.
 






blwnsmoke

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It's also shocking when I read someone saying in this forum that water pump failures don't happen that often, BS. There were a couple of recent posts, one by me that stated that service managers are seeing more and more failed water pumps with the Explorers. There was also a website that was posted in the thread "Water Pump Failure Leads to Dead Engine", that was fishing after a class action lawsuit for water pumps failures that lead to seized 3.5L engines that are in many Ford and Lincoln vehicles. The thread I mentioned is novel, but worth reading if you have lots of time.

So since you continue to disagree (which is your right) with me and call me out in these types of threads, can you explain or define what is considered often? What percent is often to you? 0.01%? 0.05? 0.001? This engine has been around for TWELVE years now. Of course you will see posts of water pumps failures. Of course there will be angry people. Yes I agree this was a crap design from Ford in that a $70 part can destroy an engine. This is exactly why I renewed me ESP up to 156,000 miles because I do NOT want to risk this happening to me.

That still does not mean that despite it being a crap design and being an expensive repair if it does happen that it happens frequently/often. Provide the proof that it happens often (which you can't) or stats (which nobody but Ford has). So until then, you are making an issue that DOES happen seem like it happens all the time. It happens to the Edge, Flex, Explorer, Lincoln versions... they do fail, they are out there.. there are people complaining about it.

I'd say with all the vehicle variations that this motor is in, you are looking in the 12,000,000-15,000,000 of these engines out there. To pull numbers out of my butt, 1,000 engine failures would put it at a 0.0083% failure rate... 2,000 engine failures is a 0.0166% failure rate (this is at the 12 mil number).

So yes, I stand by that it doesn't happen often.. and you can continue to state that it is BS and it does. But that type of failure rate is not often and you have nothing to back up that it does.
 






mattbult

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You may want to source the engine from a different dealer. Did you get a cost breakdown of parts vs labor?

$3,000 for a new engine https://parts.autonationfordwhitebe...rim/3-5l-v6-gas-engine/engine-cat/engine-scat

plus roughly 12-15 hours of labor should put you around $4,500. I know you are in a bind but this dealer is trying to hose you over on the $$$. Water pump replacement is not a $2,600 repair.. it should be in the $1,600-$1,800 (yes, still ridiculous) as it is a $70 part and 16 hours of labor or so.

Since they are ordering a new motor, it should be pretty close to drop in.

Argh, don't do this to me, I really want to trust this dealer! Really, though, thanks. I will get a breakdown and see whats what.

-m
 






blwnsmoke

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Argh, don't do this to me, I really want to trust this dealer! Really, though, thanks. I will get a breakdown and see whats what.

-m

Just trying to help you out... I know you are in a bind but money in your pocket is better then theirs. That website is an online vendor for many forums. They sell at 10% over cost. You'd have to factor in freight to where you are at.. and a core charge. What I'd do is talk with the Service Manager and tell the you can get a brand new motor for the $3,060 or so plus freight and see if they will be willing to work with you. Even at the $3,800 retail price, I don't get where they are coming up with the price they are giving you. They are still charging almost $4,000 more and at $110 an hour for labor, that is 36 hours of labor.. it just doesn't add up to me.

It does happen that although dealers are honest with repairs, they will charge more because they know you are in a bind and stuck.

Was your motor running fine? Without rereading everything, I think you said it had a CEL and they stated a stretched timing chain (stretched metal chain?? That left me suspect right there). IF your motor was running fine, I question whether it does need to be replaced. Did they say where the metal came from? Shavings from pump? cylinder walls? Pistons??
 






peterk9

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Sixonemale

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So since you continue to disagree (which is your right) with me and call me out in these types of threads, can you explain or define what is considered often? What percent is often to you? 0.01%? 0.05? 0.001? This engine has been around for TWELVE years now. Of course you will see posts of water pumps failures. Of course there will be angry people. Yes I agree this was a crap design from Ford in that a $70 part can destroy an engine. This is exactly why I renewed me ESP up to 156,000 miles because I do NOT want to risk this happening to me.

That still does not mean that despite it being a crap design and being an expensive repair if it does happen that it happens frequently/often. Provide the proof that it happens often (which you can't) or stats (which nobody but Ford has). So until then, you are making an issue that DOES happen seem like it happens all the time. It happens to the Edge, Flex, Explorer, Lincoln versions... they do fail, they are out there.. there are people complaining about it.

I'd say with all the vehicle variations that this motor is in, you are looking in the 12,000,000-15,000,000 of these engines out there. To pull numbers out of my butt, 1,000 engine failures would put it at a 0.0083% failure rate... 2,000 engine failures is a 0.0166% failure rate (this is at the 12 mil number).

So yes, I stand by that it doesn't happen often.. and you can continue to state that it is BS and it does. But that type of failure rate is not often and you have nothing to back up that it does.

First off, the water pump will fail, no question about it, and to me it’s a $40 part, perhaps with mark-up a $70 part. Two of these engines were within my extended family and one of the water pumps failed at 48k miles on a ’08 MKX while the other one started to lose coolant at around 55k miles and at the time I could not figure out where the coolant was going. So, if you look at this example it’s 50%, but was leaning toward 100% since the second car, an ’07 Edge, was beginning to lose coolant and perhaps an engine. Both of these cars were serviced by dealerships exclusively.

In my opinion very few water pumps in these engines will ever see 150,000 miles, mark my words, very few. Again, albeit an expensive repair to replace a $40 part at around $1,500, I can stomach that. What’s extremely disappointing is that the coolant can leak into the oil and with very little or almost no warning can seize an engine. A ticking time bomb, especially for those who are not mechanically inclined.

Remember too, way back when I asked to the Ford Rep’s within this thread, who are no longer on this site, if they could provide some very simple statistical data and they could not, which I find somewhat unbelievable in today’s information age. There would have been several ways for them to get a rough idea of the general number of water pumps that have failed before 150,000 miles and been repaired and/or a number of seized engines replaced.

I’ve voiced it before, merging all semi similar threads really does a disservice to many of the owners out there. The thread “2011 limited water pump failure, new engine required. Ouch” was an excellent thread on its own, why? Because it was a very real scenario that occurred and without reading 15 lengthy pages that clearly and concisely showed that the water pump in the fifth generation Explorer can fail without much or very little warning and seize an engine, super valuable information for all owners.
 






1995E

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Ford needs a lawsuit thrown at them. There's the damn exhaust leak and then this bs...
 






Junkmann2

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I said it about this time last year, that this water pump problem is going to wind up being a class action lawsuit, when enough owners wind up having engine failures. This is also going to affect the resale value of the vehicles in the future. Our two 2016 Explorers are at the 2 years of service mark, with one having just under 24,000 miles, and the other with about 15,000 miles. I was going to wait for the new model in 2019, however, at this point, the problems that I am reading about have me thinking that I don't want to own these vehicles once they are out of warranty.
Today, I learned that there is another problem with the 2016 Explorers, a cracked exhaust manifold. I haven't had either of our cars checked, but if it is as commonplace as it was reported in the news story, that might be enough to push me into trading them sooner than later. I do know that I get a strange smell in the cabin upon heavy acceleration to merge into interstate highway driving.
 






blwnsmoke

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I said it about this time last year, that this water pump problem is going to wind up being a class action lawsuit, when enough owners wind up having engine failures. This is also going to affect the resale value of the vehicles in the future. Our two 2016 Explorers are at the 2 years of service mark, with one having just under 24,000 miles, and the other with about 15,000 miles. I was going to wait for the new model in 2019, however, at this point, the problems that I am reading about have me thinking that I don't want to own these vehicles once they are out of warranty.
Today, I learned that there is another problem with the 2016 Explorers, a cracked exhaust manifold. I haven't had either of our cars checked, but if it is as commonplace as it was reported in the news story, that might be enough to push me into trading them sooner than later. I do know that I get a strange smell in the cabin upon heavy acceleration to merge into interstate highway driving.

That is with the PIUs and those primarily use the 3.7, not 3.5. I believe the exhaust manifold is a 3.7 engine issue.
 






mattbult

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Just trying to help you out... I know you are in a bind but money in your pocket is better then theirs. That website is an online vendor for many forums. They sell at 10% over cost. You'd have to factor in freight to where you are at.. and a core charge. What I'd do is talk with the Service Manager and tell the you can get a brand new motor for the $3,060 or so plus freight and see if they will be willing to work with you. Even at the $3,800 retail price, I don't get where they are coming up with the price they are giving you. They are still charging almost $4,000 more and at $110 an hour for labor, that is 36 hours of labor.. it just doesn't add up to me.

It does happen that although dealers are honest with repairs, they will charge more because they know you are in a bind and stuck.

Was your motor running fine? Without rereading everything, I think you said it had a CEL and they stated a stretched timing chain (stretched metal chain?? That left me suspect right there). IF your motor was running fine, I question whether it does need to be replaced. Did they say where the metal came from? Shavings from pump? cylinder walls? Pistons??

FYI, the part number is bb5z-6006-AARM for the complete (ford remanufactured) engine assembly and they are charging me list price (which is fine). 21 hrs of labor at $99/hr plus $300 tax and $200 misc parts.
 






peterk9

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FYI, the part number is bb5z-6006-AARM for the complete (ford remanufactured) engine assembly and they are charging me list price (which is fine). 21 hrs of labor at $99/hr plus $300 tax and $200 misc parts.
https://parts.autonationfordwhitebearlake.com/oem-parts/ford-reman-service-engine-asy-bb5z6006aarm
Be sure to read the note about the "Core Charge". Although I'm not sure, I'm guessing that the $1000 charge would be deducted from the cost that is shown since that cost is more than a 'new' engine as listed on the 2 parts sites that were identified.

Peter
 



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https://parts.autonationfordwhitebearlake.com/oem-parts/ford-reman-service-engine-asy-bb5z6006aarm
Be sure to read the note about the "Core Charge". Although I'm not sure, I'm guessing that the $1000 charge would be deducted from the cost that is shown since that cost is more than a 'new' engine as listed on the 2 parts sites that were identified.

Peter

I am guessing the engine he is getting is complete (injectors, spark plugs, alternator etc). As opposed to needing just the block and reusing the good external parts.

However, being the minimal difference if I'm correct in the above, I would go his route and have everything new.

But it definitely doesn't take 3 days to swap a motor out if it is coming complete...

Also, there would be no core charge because the dealer keeps the old one and sends it back.
 






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