Water pump failure leads to dead engine

[Sixonemale]

I have the 2011 Lincoln MKX. Last week, my engine stalled with no warning while driving. Diagnosis-- blown head gasket due to overheating, due to coolant leaking into the engine from a failed water pump. There was no overheating indicated. It was a dream to drive while it lasted. I've never had a vehicle cost me this much money in service and repairs. Mileage at 111k. I filed complaints with nhtsa.gov and BBB Auto line and Lincoln manufacturer customer service phone number from inside the owner's manual. I also did a phone consultation with a large law firm in my city to see if that was something they might take on. They stated they could not help me with this matter.

Sorry to hear about this. Out of curiosity, how often did you change or do coolant flushes? Thanks

 

[runningman42818]

Sorry to hear about this. Out of curiosity, how often did you change or do coolant flushes? Thanks

I had the coolant flushed/changed shortly after I purchased it in Fall 2015.

 

[runningman42818]

I had the coolant flushed/changed shortly after I purchased it in Fall 2015.

That was at 60k miles.

 

[Sixonemale]

I had the coolant flushed/changed shortly after I purchased it in Fall 2015.

That was at 60k miles.

You were definitely diligent, that is 40,000 miles before it's required by the maintenance manual. There really should be some sort of Recall to put a sensor on the coolant overflow tank so that when it drains unexpectedly, a closed system, the owner can stop driving to prevent catastrophic damage to the engine.

 

[runningman42818]

I have the 2011 Lincoln MKX. Last week, my engine stalled with no warning while driving. Diagnosis-- blown head gasket due to overheating, due to coolant leaking into the engine from a failed water pump. There was no overheating indicated. It was a dream to drive while it lasted. I've never had a vehicle cost me this much money in service and repairs. Mileage at 111k. I filed complaints with nhtsa.gov and BBB Auto line and Lincoln manufacturer customer service phone number from inside the owner's manual. I also did a phone consultation with a large law firm in my city to see if that was something they might take on. They stated they could not help me with this matter.

By the way, any of you who have had this problem, please also file a complaint with NHTSA.gov and BBB Auto line and Lincoln/Ford manufacturer customer service. This issue does get recorded by the manufacturer when you send your vehicle for the repair at a dealership. However, I wouldn't put my full trust in the manufacturer to communicate the issue to the authorities in the government who oversee good business practices and vehicle safety, unless it was required of them to do so. You are the customer, so your money and your voice(two-cents worth) are your leverage. Exercise it

 

[tripplec]

Its a tough situation to be in. I had read about this while looking for a newer Explorer than what my son bought (details in signature). But after 2010 this power train had many problems such as this water pump. A deal breaker and any price not matter how low. I ended up buying a 2012 Highlander 4WD for myself. A lot more money but piece of mind for sure with its 3.5L engine and drive system.

As above the engine is gone before the owner know there is a problem which is dumb engineering and IMO unacceptable to incur after the warranty has run out.

 

[KayGee]

You were definitely diligent, that is 40,000 miles before it's required by the maintenance manual. There really should be some sort of Recall to put a sensor on the coolant overflow tank so that when it drains unexpectedly, a closed system, the owner can stop driving to prevent catastrophic damage to the engine.

Coolants degrade over time and can change ph. If you aren't testing and maintaining it (I don't know any average car owner that does that), it is probably to their benefit to change the coolant earlier than the suggested interval ( ideal is probably 50-60K change interval, maybe 30-40K if towing or in severe climate).

"Modern vehicles also have longer intervals between fluid changes of all types partly because environmental regulators have pressured automakers to reduce the amount of old coolant, as well as other waste fluids, that must be disposed of or recycled." Longer fluid intervals are better for the environment, but may not be better for you and your vehicle. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure...

 

[tripplec]

That is no excuse for Fords design to fail regardless of the age of the coolant. It wasn't a problem in older vehicles so why now. Engineered junk and cheap parts used for the high cost of many of these upscaled SUV's

 

[Drewmcg]

I have the 2011 Lincoln MKX. Last week, my engine stalled with no warning while driving. Diagnosis-- blown head gasket due to overheating, due to coolant leaking into the engine from a failed water pump. There was no overheating indicated. It was a dream to drive while it lasted. I've never had a vehicle cost me this much money in service and repairs. Mileage at 111k. I filed complaints with nhtsa.gov and BBB Auto line and Lincoln manufacturer customer service phone number from inside the owner's manual. I also did a phone consultation with a large law firm in my city to see if that was something they might take on. They stated they could not help me with this matter.

What month was your MKX built?

 

[Drewmcg]

Never mind -- per RockAuto, all of the 2011 3.7 MKX's had the redesigned ("fixed") water pump with two rows of teeth)....

 

[imp]

Never mind -- per RockAuto, all of the 2011 3.7 MKX's had the redesigned ("fixed") water pump with two rows of teeth)....

@Drewmcg
Here's why I'm here now: "The dealer told me coolant entered the engine when the water pump failed." I did not question this earlier, as I suspected something funny has gone on with water pumps. Hell, isn't the pump EXPECTED to cause water to enter the engine??

What exactly is this "fixed" pump all about, anyway? I just know, you know! Thanks! imp

 

[peterk9]

That is no excuse for Fords design to fail regardless of the age of the coolant. It wasn't a problem in older vehicles so why now. Engineered junk and cheap parts used for the high cost of many of these upscaled SUV's

The 5th gen Explorer has a transverse mounted engine and an internal water pump due to space restraints. This should be resolved with the redesigned 2020. Still, they should have engineered it to prevent the issues in this thread.

Peter

 

[peterk9]

@Drewmcg
Here's why I'm here now: "The dealer told me coolant entered the engine when the water pump failed." I did not question this earlier, as I suspected something funny has gone on with water pumps. Hell, isn't the pump EXPECTED to cause water to enter the engine??..........................

Coolant is not expected to mix with the engine's oil.

Peter

 

[imp]

Coolant is not expected to mix with the engine's oil.

Peter

@peterk9
True enough, as far as good old water pumps go, no pump I've ever seen was in any way able to allow coolant to enter combustion chambers........only connection was to water jacket. Only cracks or failed head gaskets allowed coolant into combustion chambers.

So how do these new-fangled pumps work? imp

 

[peterk9]

@peterk9
True enough, as far as good old water pumps go, no pump I've ever seen was in any way able to allow coolant to enter combustion chambers........only connection was to water jacket. Only cracks or failed head gaskets allowed coolant into combustion chambers.

So how do these new-fangled pumps work? imp

I'm not familiar with their operation and hope to not get any first hand experience.

 

[blwnsmoke]

@Drewmcg
Here's why I'm here now: "The dealer told me coolant entered the engine when the water pump failed." I did not question this earlier, as I suspected something funny has gone on with water pumps. Hell, isn't the pump EXPECTED to cause water to enter the engine??

What exactly is this "fixed" pump all about, anyway? I just know, you know! Thanks! imp

No, coolant is not expected to enter the engine. It flows through channels that surround the cylinders but does not enter the cylinders or crankcase etc. If the pump leaks internally, the cylinders actually fill up with coolant which destroys the motor.

 

[imp]

No, coolant is not expected to enter the engine. It flows through channels that surround the cylinders but does not enter the cylinders or crankcase etc. If the pump leaks internally, the cylinders actually fill up with coolant which destroys the motor.

@blwnsmoke
Understood. But just how does this pump do this? Where is it located? How does it work? Sounds like a crazy idea, to me. imp

 

[mcpcartier]

@blwnsmoke
Understood. But just how does this pump do this? Where is it located? H
ow does it work? Sounds like a crazy idea, to me. imp

watch the video in post #493

Water pump failure leads to dead engine

He explains exactly what happens....if the gaskets fails coolant passes through and drains into the oil pan. If the shaft of the pump gives out same result.

Having the pump situated over top of the oil pan is the challenge.....a leak of any kind drains into the pan!

 

[imp]

watch the video in post #493

Water pump failure leads to dead engine

He explains exactly what happens....if the gaskets fails coolant passes through and drains into the oil pan. If the shaft of the pump gives out same result.

Having the pump situated over top of the oil pan is the challenge.....a leak of any kind drains into the pan!

@mcpcartier
Thank you! I missed it, this being so danged long a discussion. Pump is chain-driven, mounted internally, not only gasket failure, but shaft seal failure lunches the oil. Knowing the uncertainty of very-long lived pump seals, I would rank this design in the "wet-dream" category. Insane design. IMO, of course. Would surprise me to learn it's not German-designed, like my Cologne-built 4.0L Explorer engine. imp

 

[Drewmcg]

@Drewmcg
Here's why I'm here now: "The dealer told me coolant entered the engine when the water pump failed." I did not question this earlier, as I suspected something funny has gone on with water pumps. Hell, isn't the pump EXPECTED to cause water to enter the engine??

What exactly is this "fixed" pump all about, anyway? I just know, you know! Thanks! imp

Imp: Like you, I suspect (another Gen 3 Explorer owner), I like the idea of picking up a wounded used Ford SUV for a few bucks and bringing it back to life. I really do like my '02 Explorer XLS now that I've swapped in a lower-mileage used 4.0L engine and replaced the timing components.

I looked at late 2000's Ford Edges (generally positive consumer reviews)--smaller and not a truck, but somewhat more fuel efficient. I learned that Ford introduced the 3.5 transverse mounted duratec in 2007 Edge (I think) or Flex, with variable valve timing and slightly better mileage than our 4.0L colognes (owing in part to lighter vehicle weight, however).

As you know by now, to save space the engineers (at Mazda in Japan, I think, but I might be wrong) moved the water pump inside the timing cover, over the oil pan, and drove it off of the timing chain (instead of off the accessory belt used to drive power steering, A/C, etc. on our engines). The early design used a single row of teeth. I've read reports that the Japanese engines used in Mazda's variant had good specs for the water pump, but that the U.S. built ones used in Fords started experiencing significant failures, often soon after the 60k miles warranty expired. Basically, the shaft seal (?) failed and allowed coolant to leak through and drip down into the oll pan, diluting the oil overly a relatively short number of miles, decreasing lubricity, and causing bearings to fail and other awful things. This affected 3.5 and 3.7 Duratecs, but Ford sold a ton more of the former.

In approx. 2011 Ford's "fix" was to re-design the water pump slightly to use two rows of teeth instead of one row. There may be other, less visible, changes as well. This required that other timing components change, too (e.g., at double-row timing chain). While I've seen some reports of post-fix failures, they are not nearly as frequent. And, like the post above that I asked about, may not even represent a water pump failure at all (could just be a blown head gasket in that case).

For what its worth, I've read of one case where the owner of a 2007 Edge who caught the problem before it completely destroyed his engine ordering all of the post-fix components (including new water pump design, timing chain, gears) and successfully installing them on his SUV. That seems pretty cool to me.

I might eventually try to find a late-2000's Edge or Flex that still runs, where the owner caught the problem early, took it to a dealer and was told it is a $2-$3k repair, and decided sell rather than spend that kind of money. The two problems I see are: (i) its very hard to repair water pump/timing components with the engine in the car; and (ii) how would you really know whether the problem was caught early enough to avoid major engine damage?

Hope this answers your question.