Water pump failure leads to dead engine

[weaslee]

There’s no way to check for wear, it’s inside the motor.

After the water pump was replaced and sitting on the work bench...

 

[CDW6212R]

After the water pump was replaced and sitting on the work bench...

Well, if you take the WP out, it's done. You don't ever reuse a water pump, especially one that's inside the engine.

 

[RonParise]

Well, if you take the WP out, it's done. You don't ever reuse a water pump, especially one that's inside the engine.

I think you miss the point of his question.

Because the water pump is inside the engine you dont know the shaft seal is leaking until its too late. When I learned of the issue it was nearly ten years old with 200000 miles. I figured I was on borrowed time I decided to replace it before it failed

The question is... did I panic for no reason? or was I able to observe any wear or leaks

So heres my answer: I dont know Regarding leaks; the double seal (between the pump body and the block) looked and felt good. The shaft showed no obvious wobble but the shaft didnt turn freely, (not binding but just a little drag). I saw that as the beginning of the end for the shaft seal.. Im happy with my decision

​

 

[ncsuengineer256]

I think you miss the point of his question.

Because the water pump is inside the engine you dont know the shaft seal is leaking until its too late. When I learned of the issue it was nearly ten years old with 200000 miles. I figured I was on borrowed time I decided to replace it before it failed

The question is... did I panic for no reason? or was I able to observe any wear or leaks

So heres my answer: I dont know Regarding leaks; the double seal (between the pump body and the block) looked and felt good. The shaft showed no obvious wobble but the shaft didnt turn freely, (not binding but just a little drag). I saw that as the beginning of the end for the shaft seal.. Im happy with my decision

​

I think the only warning you get regarding a failed pump is a drip of coolant through the weep hole, right? I think once the first seal is breached coolant will slowly drip through the weep hole behind the alternator and hopefully the owner will see it on the driveway / garage.

 

[Mbrooks420]

I think the only warning you get regarding a failed pump is a drip of coolant through the weep hole, right? I think once the first seal is breached coolant will slowly drip through the weep hole behind the alternator and hopefully the owner will see it on the driveway / garage.

They wish. It leaks into the motor oil and ruins your engine.

 

[Sixonemale]

I think the only warning you get regarding a failed pump is a drip of coolant through the weep hole, right?

They should have put a sensor on the coolant reservoir tank. This would eliminate checking under the hood at a regular frequency and hoping the water pump does not fail while driving. If the coolant in the tank goes low, triggers a sensor, at least the owner can stop driving and hope that it's leaking out of the weep hold vs inside the engine.

 

[Mbrooks420]

They should have put a sensor on the coolant reservoir tank. This would eliminate checking under the hood at a regular frequency and hoping the water pump does not fail while driving. If the coolant in the tank goes low, triggers a sensor, at least the owner can stop driving and hope that it's leaking out of the weep hold vs inside the engine.

What weep hole? The pump is INSIDE the motor.

 

[Sixonemale]

What weep hole? The pump is INSIDE the motor.

The coolant has a choice to either leak externally or internally. If you read other threads it will explain or even show where it would leak externally. For the lucky owners, it leaks externally.

 

[94Eddie]

I think the only warning you get regarding a failed pump is a drip of coolant through the weep hole, right? I think once the first seal is breached coolant will slowly drip through the weep hole behind the alternator and hopefully the owner will see it on the driveway / garage.

The ones who get the weep hole leak, and detect it, are lucky. I watch the coolant level in the tank for even the slightest sign of coolant loss. Many pump failures are immediate and catastrophic. This makes a pre-emptive water pump replacement more justified.

 

[Sixonemale]

The ones who get the weep hole leak, and detect it, are lucky. I watch the coolant level in the tank for even the slightest sign of coolant loss. Many pump failures are immediate and catastrophic. This makes a pre-emptive water pump replacement more justified.

Fully agreed.

 

[Mbrooks420]

It’d be easy to add a mechanical float to the reservoir and then run the oil pressure switch through it in series. If the reservoir went low the truck would alert you like it ran out of oil pressure. I’m sure that has plenty of visibility. You could just add it to your own indicator light as well.

 

[94Eddie]

What weep hole? The pump is INSIDE the motor.

The pump has two seals. When the first seal is breached it allows coolant to leak through a very small weep hole which is located in a spot that is almost impossible to see without a mirror. A breach of the second seal will dump coolant into the oil pan. If the pump fails gradually then the weep hole can drain the cooland and thus give a warning sign. If the pump fails catastrophically then pressure builds quickly, overwhelms the weep hole and blows out the second seal immediately dumping a massive amount of coolant into the oil pan in seconds. This typically trashes the engine if it isn't turned off quickly.

 

[94Eddie]

It’d be easy to add a mechanical float to the reservoir and then run the oil pressure switch through it in series. If the reservoir went low the truck would alert you like it ran out of oil pressure. I’m sure that has plenty of visibility. You could just add it to your own indicator light as well.

The coolant in the tank has a lot of room to slosh around. A level sensor might go off constantly while driving. Especially since it would need to detect a very small drop in fluid level to be effective. What irritates me is Ford made the water pump external on this engine for the Mustang and F150. They could have, and should have, made room for this design on FWD vehicles. It is a shame because other than the water pump issue this engine is bulletproof.

 

[Mbrooks420]

The coolant in the tank has a lot of room to slosh around. A level sensor might go off constantly while driving. Especially since it would need to detect a very small drop in fluid level to be effective. What irritates me is Ford made the water pump external on this engine for the Mustang and F150. They could have, and should have, made room for this design on FWD vehicles. It is a shame because other than the water pump issue this engine is bulletproof.

You’d have to put it a fair amount down the tank. You can mix your oil and coolant for a bit before it washes out the bearings. You’d have a much better chance of catching it this way, than any other way. Certainly you’d catch it way sooner than weekly checks of the tank.

 

[CDW6212R]

The only good answer is to remove the WP from the engine, and don't put it back inside. Find a way to have it outside, as 94Eddie said, there is a version with it outside.

 

[transman304]

Here is a picture of the filter in the 6F30.

 

[RonParise]

I think the only warning you get regarding a failed pump is a drip of coolant through the weep hole, right? I think once the first seal is breached coolant will slowly drip through the weep hole behind the alternator and hopefully the owner will see it on the driveway / garage.

correct, but there is another possible scenario and that is the two seals are ok but the shaft seal fails Water will not find its way to the weep hole, it goes directly into the oil. And there may no warning until its too late

I now send a sample to Blackstone Labs each time I do an oil change. Among other things they look for water and anti freeze. This will alert me if there is a slow leak, but if the seal fails all at once, it wont.. So now Im pulling the dipstick daily, looking for but hoping not to find "milkshake" instead of oil

 

[CDW6212R]

correct, but there is another possible scenario and that is the two seals are ok but the shaft seal fails Water will not find its way to the weep hole, it goes directly into the oil. And there may no warning until its too late

I now send a sample to Blackstone Labs each time I do an oil change. Among other things they look for water and anti freeze. This will alert me if there is a slow leak, but if the seal fails all at once, it wont.. So now Im pulling the dipstick daily, looking for but hoping not to find "milkshake" instead of oil

Life is too short to stress over everything, or too much over one thing like this. The engine design was poor to place the WP inside. But take care of it with reason, do proper maintenance, and include the WP in that. Change the WP well before they typically fail(leak coolant of any amount). Do that, and then go on without worrying about it, until the next scheduled mileage to change it. Don't waste you life popping the hood, write down the age of the WP, and keep track of that mileage until it needs attention again.

 

[RonParise]

The only good answer is to remove the WP from the engine, and don't put it back inside. Find a way to have it outside, as 94Eddie said, there is a version with it outside.

Id like to see how that would work

Life is too short to stress over everything, or too much over one thing like this. The engine design was poor to place the WP inside. But take care of it with reason, do proper maintenance, and include the WP in that. Change the WP well before they typically fail(leak coolant of any amount). Do that, and then go on without worrying about it, until the next scheduled mileage to change it. Don't waste you life popping the hood, write down the age of the WP, and keep track of that mileage until it needs attention again.

Easy for you to say... Replacing the water pump is a $2000 job

 

[94Eddie]

Here is a picture of the filter in the 6F30.

Thanks for the photo. It looks like it has a decent sized filter. I expected it to be a lot smaller considering the compactness the transmission.