wheel bearings..Moog vs Ford OEM

[slow-demon]

ball joints..Moog vs Ford OEM

I changed my ball joints about 22,000 miles ago. On one side I installed some Moog upper and lower ball joints, and the other side Ford ball joints. My '91 explorer is modified with 35" tires on wide rims so I know the ball joints takes some stress. Well I checked the balljoints while doing some routine wheel bearing maintanence. One side the ball joints was showing some play. And guess which ball joints was worn out....










:thumbdwn: The MOOGS had some play in them... Yes, the moogs didn't last as long as the Ford balljoints. And I always hear of how the Moogs are better..Well on my truck the moogs are junk.

 

[410Fortune]

Well on your truck have you considered you had to change the Ford ones on that side once already and it may not be the fault of the joints? Tire balance, wheel, spindle, wheel bearings, tie rods, alignment, shocks, etc can all effect the life of the ball joints.

Spicer ball joints are pretty much identical to Moogs, the Moogs are good ball joints, I think your problem lies elsewhere.

 

[blueox]

Both joints bad after 22k? Is the knuckle good maybe the ball joint seats are wallered out.

 

[410Fortune]

Also you r topic is wheel bearings, in this case I prefer Timken hahahaha

If the lower is overtightened the knuckle is FUBARED

 

[slow-demon]

Regarding wheel bearings....Timkens are the best.....BCA's are a close 2nd and all others suck..The the ones Napa sells are the worst..

My truck has 35" pro comp mud terrains on 15x12" Weld rims..So the ball joints and bearings take a lot of stress. I repack wheel bearings at 10,000 mile intervals or even less.. And change them whenever I feel like it. Every 2 years or so. Moog ball joints are completely different than Ford spicer joints. Moogs have grease nipples on them and Ford spicers are sealed. Ball joint seats are good , but both sides have the largest alignment cams installed. The MOOG upper balljoint is the one that is showing some looseness. The FORDS have none..nada...zerooo...I have made my conclusion..and that is that the FORD spicers are far superior than the much highly touted MOOGS..That's my opinion and I won't change it..By the way, I am a FORD factory certified mechanic for 10 years..

 

[410Fortune]

Spicer and Moog both sell sealed and greasable ball joints. the construction is basically identical for both of them, same materials, same specs.
Also you are preaching to the choir, I have 280K miles on my BII with a cut and turned D35 TTB, I run 33's on the street, 35's off road, with an ARB.

I have heard alot of desert guys say napa fleet grade ball joints are excellent as well.
Napa sells more than one brand.

Even with 35's you should not need to service your wheel bearings that often, maybe twice a year, as long as the spindles, alignments, etc are all in good shape.
The locking washer on the spindle nuts can wear out, and in fact even new it doesnt fit the groove in the spindle very well (makes it easy for the nuts to work themselves loose) You can hit the tab with a welder and then file so it sits really tight in the spindle groove, then once you set your preload and torque the bearings it will not back off at all, even still with 33's and larger, yes the bearings require attention at least twice a year on a daily driver.

 

[RangerX]

Regarding wheel bearings....Timkens are the best.....BCA's are a close 2nd and all others suck..The the ones Napa sells are the worst..

My truck has ... 15x12" rims..

I think this is the root of your problem, not the brand of ball joints.

 

[410Fortune]

yeah those are some big a&& wheels for the D35, alot of backspacing.

 

[Creager]

15x12's on an explorer? I bet it sounds like the fregging thing is falling apart half the time.

That’s funny you say BCA is second best when you say Napa brands suck. NAPA sells and recommends BCA, I don’t know where else to buy them.

My mood ball joints are sealed, because I chose to buy a sealed ball joint. The Moog’s were also identical to the Spicer joints that I took off. Don’t think their is much inferiority there

I also got Moog’s brand U-joint in the mail today (PERSICIAN), which looked pretty tuff. The Grease zerk is on the Bearing cap instead of retrofitted into the housing of the U-joint. Hopefully it will hold up better then BRUTE FORCE.

 

[410Fortune]

Did you break a brute force U joint? I wanna hear more if you did,

FYI the Spicer and MOOG joints may very well be built by the same company, this is very common in the industry, and when you get down to it there are only like 5 or 6 major manufaturers.

 

[Creager]

Did you break a brute force U joint? I wanna hear more if you did,

FYI the Spicer and MOOG joints may very well be built by the same company, this is very common in the industry, and when you get down to it there are only like 5 or 6 major manufaturers.

Haha no sorry to disappoint you, but no I haven’t busted it yet.

It’s been humming and clunking for a lil while, basically annoying the crap out of me and only after <10k miles. I checked it and found I got some extra play at the transfer case joint. I took a 'light' wheelin trip the other night and made it worse haha. Ill try and break it tomorrow hahaha, before i replace them with the new ones.

 

[410Fortune]

I was gonna say, They are pretty tough from what I hear.

You might have a problem elsewhere, wearing out U joints quickly no matter what you put in there.

Mine are all Spicer, greasable.

Man I go through a tube of grease a month! I have 12 zerks onteh front end not including the axleshafts, then I have 3 ea in each driveshaft, and well you know me, they all get grease at least twice a month.

 

[Creager]

I was gonna say, They are pretty tough from what I hear.

You might have a problem elsewhere, wearing out U joints quickly no matter what you put in there.

Mine are all Spicer, greasable.

Man I go through a tube of grease a month! I have 12 zerks onteh front end not including the axleshafts, then I have 3 ea in each driveshaft, and well you know me, they all get grease at least twice a month.

The problem I have I believe started from one of two others, or probably a combination of the two.

1) When I installed that particular U-joint, I got rushed and didn’t fill the caps with any of my own grease. I tricked myself into believing the grease that already came in the joint would be enough. The joint at the rear end I did grease up and its still good, (no play). Both are non-greaseable.

2) About 400 miles after I initially installed my gears, I noticed something was failing, humming noise at all speeds. I thought it might have been the gears, so I spent a week (before/after work) making sure everything was perfect. I went as far as replacing the pinion bearings and races. But nothing was out of round and the gears were messing perfectly, a perfect wear pattern with a mirror finish. The only thing that I found was my pinion nut had loosened up and my pinion bearing preload went to 0inlbs. After further investigation I discovered it was because I didn’t clean the pinion threads properly. Anti-seize that I had on the splines for the pinion flange had gotten on the threads for the pinion nut... At first I thought I might have not put locktite on the nut when I installed it. But after inspection I found I did have some locktite on there, but grey anti-seize was everywhere.

 

[slow-demon]

Spicer and Moog both sell sealed and greasable ball joints. the construction is basically identical for both of them, same materials, same specs.
Also you are preaching to the choir, I have 280K miles on my BII with a cut and turned D35 TTB, I run 33's on the street, 35's off road, with an ARB.


Even with 35's you should not need to service your wheel bearings that often, maybe twice a year, as long as the spindles, alignments, etc are all in good shape.
The locking washer on the spindle nuts can wear out, and in fact even new it doesnt fit the groove in the spindle very well (makes it easy for the nuts to work themselves loose) You can hit the tab with a welder and then file so it sits really tight in the spindle groove, then once you set your preload and torque the bearings it will not back off at all, even still with 33's and larger, yes the bearings require attention at least twice a year on a daily driver.

Mr. 410Fortune,
The Ford spicer balljoints don't look like the Moogs. They are completely different. So what that you have 280K on your Bronco deuce. I have 220K on my explorer. And who in the world would modify a Bronco II. I work at FORD and we hated working on those P.O.S. Bonco deuces. Everyone in the shop were so happy when they discontinued it. Me INCLUDED!!! Looks like you changed the entire powertrain on that Deuce mobile..Did you upgrade the frame too ...Why go through the trouble with that cutting and turning the dana 35ifs. Why no just but a straight front from a real Bronco from the 70's. Why didn't you just leave the stock dana 28 IFS and rear 7.5...And why didn't you just leave that tapping solid lifter 2.8L in the Bronco deuce.
The NAPA bearings weren't BCA's when I bought them years ago. THey were some other off brand, I remember very vividly. I know what BCA's are.

quote from Mr.."Creager 15x12's on an explorer? I bet it sounds like the fregging thing is falling apart half the time."
No the bearings don't sound like they are falling apart. I have been running the same set up for almost 8 years..Over 22OK miles. I have 5:13 gears and have no problem pulling the tires. It's a daily driver and I offroad on weekends on mostly Lava rock. My bearing maintanence is what I have found out necessary after 8 years of running large rims and tires. I just can't figure out why the moogs can't handle the 15x12's and the Fords can. Maybe one tire had more thread on the tire or maybe one tire had 1 more psi pressure in the tire. Or may I took more right hand turns than lefts..Maybe I ran over a Bronco deuce on the road..Well I don't know about that..I don't see any bronco deuces on the road anymore, only in the junkyard. Looked like they all had some unexpected roll overs.. :fire:

 

[410Fortune]

Are you always an ass or what?

Come out and play and I will show you WHY you build a Bronco II.
So what if you work for Ford, in my experience most of the techs at the dealerships dont know jack.

But here lets start with this:
"I work at FORD and we hated working on those P.O.S. Bonco deuces"
Can you tell me the difference between a Gen I explorer and a BII? Not much aside from the drivetrain, frames are identical from the doors forward. Plus I get to start with a better wheelbase for the type of wheeling I do, a spring over rear, and about #1000 less then you.

"Looks like you changed the entire powertrain on that Deuce mobile..Did you upgrade the frame too "

Well the frame is not much different from a 96 Explorer 5.0L, in fact it wasnt until the late model Sport that Ford did anything to the frame, then they boxed them. My frame is as stong as yours, maybe even stronger with the added x members, sorter frame rails, and work I have done to it. I have pulled a boat for 8 years now, and well the frame is still there, not tweaked or twisted.

"Why go through the trouble with that cutting and turning the dana 35ifs"
Well first off my truck had the D28 TTB, then it had the D35 TTB, then I built a completely custom cut and turned long travel TTB. If you have to ask this question its obvious you dont understand wht advantages a long travel cut and turned TTB has on and off road, a solid axle is not for everyone who goes off road. Also the answer to this question is BECAUSE I CAN hahaha.

How many have you built? (Dont bother answering because it goes something like this, the TTB is junk I like solid axles from early bronco's) yeah Ford is so stupid I cant believe they ever built the TTB, Neither can 4x4 guys who race in the desert with 18" of 4x4 wheel travel still retaining independant suspension. Again this is a question coming from somebody who doesnt know better, obviously. Call up Camburg or Autofab and ask them which they prefer, a solid axle or a TTB, where I come from we dont just put our tires on big rocks, we also go fast in the whoops, solid axles dont do so well here, or for that matter on the street.

What you should have asked is ?Why did Ford use the inverted Y steering on the TTB??", that would be a more intelligent question.

the EB or "real" bronco as you call it has a low pinion Dana 44 solid axle, later model disc brakes, radius arms, trac bar, and is coil sprung. Dont think I dont know all about solid axle conversions, truth is when you simply bolt in a D44 up front, when compared to my TTB setup, it wont flex near as well, not without wristing one arm anyways. Also as I said before a sold axle is not the best solution for everyone who goes off road, if I was only going rock crawling then you can bet I would have a long travel solid axle up front, however it wouldnt resemble much of what they used under the EB, there is ALOT of room for improvement there.

"Why didn't you just leave the stock dana 28 IFS and rear 7.5...And why didn't you just leave that tapping solid lifter 2.8L in the Bronco deuce."

Well first off my 88 didnt have a 60 degree Cologne carbed 2.8L, it had a speed density EFI 2.9L, I played with that engine for a while, then after a few years dove into new territory and swapped the drivetrain for a OHV 4.0L and Mazda 5 speed. When I did this conversion there were not a whole lot of these around, basically I was in uncharted waters and pretty much learned all about the EEC-IV, the power disribution and PCM harness, the who what and why of the guts of your OBD-I powertrain and dove head first into this conversion. Since then I have built complete conversion wiring harness for everything from 2.8L, 2.9L, 3.0L, 2.3L Turbo, and 5.0L conversions, my harness is an improvement over stock, and well lets ask you this: Can you covert your 92 Ex to a GT-40 5.0L COMPLETE with OBD-II stock pcm and computer controlled auto transmission, build a custom tailored power and PCM harness to incorporate the new systems into the truck? Emissions legal 100 OEM conversion completed in 6 months because I had to wait on parts. Anybody can turn a wrench, not everyone can rebuild and customize entire vehicles, and how many OBD-II conversions have you seen like the one I just performed on my 280K miles B2? Funny thing is I have driven this truck daily for over 12 years and rolled 1 explorer in that time.

My latest creation was completely upgrading my POS Bronco Duece to a OBD-II pushrod GT-40 5.0L retaining the stock PCM, which controls the 4R70W, I even built a new gas tank to accomodate the OBD-II fuel pressure sensor. But hey what do I know, right? I built the underdog of all Ford trucks, the BII. Do you even know WHY Ford built the BII the way they did? Its called gas crunch and japanese pickup trucks. Also their rear "picture" windows were designed to be remove-able, which never made it into production. This is why the BII, (aka first SUV) had a top unlike the EB and FSB.

Sorry almost missed this one:
"Why didn't you just leave the stock dana 28 IFS and rear 7.5..."
Why would I remove a Dana 28 TTB, or replace the calipers, ball joints, gears, etc etc when it was so much easier to bolt in a 93 D35 TTB with larger brakes, better hubs, and stronger componenets. Plus it also had the correct driveshaft flange for my BW1354 T case, which in case you didnt know is slightly different from the original 1350 electric shift that came with my truck.
The 7.5" rear end is not up to the task of towing a boat, it is also not up to the task of handling 330+ ft lbs of torque. Also the nice bonus was the rear disc brakes, 31 spline axles, etc. So why on the hell would you leave the D28 and 7.5" in the truck when everything else has been completely customized, converted, and upgraded?

Now that I read the rest of your post, with your reply to Creager I can see you are a total close minded Explorer enthusiast, I suppose if my BII had a Ranger body on it then you wouldnt talk smack right, instead you would say, hey "wicked ranger" but ignorance is bliss.
Come talk to me when you grow up, know what you are talking about, or complete your own drivetrain conversion, OBD-II would be nice, byu then I am sure I will have moved on yet again to something better, yes still in my BII. I am so thuroughly impressed with your high mileage Gen I Ex, low gears and big tires, you can come wipe the drool off the floor here in front of me....
Give me a break, if you knew anything about what we do here you would have shut your mouth before you typed any of this. I have probably wrenched on more explorer's, Rangers, BII's, and anything else Ford then you have seen in your entire Ford tech carreer.
Have fun being ignorant and thanks for playin!

What makes me sad is this is just my hobby and I am guessing you will never catch up, especially with your closed mind, maybe you belong in a Jeep.

 

[410Fortune]

Come back to the main land when you have something useful to post, k?

You came here asking a question about ball joints under a wheel bearing titled thread, then we (I) give you advice or thoughts on the matter and you decide you want to show how superior your Ford knowledge is, hell it must be right, you work for a dealership! SWEET! then you bash on everyone who has something to say?

Grow up and then start thinking about ways to make your Explorer climb over that rock I just tackled in my POS Bronco Duece, when you got caught up on your rear spring hangers, mounted directly under the frame instead of off to the side like the BII.

FYI those arent Ford ball joints, they are made by dana spicer.

 

[410Fortune]

oh one more thing:

Why in the hell do you still have the d35 TTB? You should have bolted in a EB D44 long ago, especially with the hard core wheeling and tires you run.

You = make no sense.

 

[Creager]

haha, I felt like I was reading the literacy of a second grader.

How are you going to ask a question... then start criticizing every answer you get?

Maybe if you actually did good in school, you could have gotten a better job. And maybe achieved a lil social skills along the way.

 

[410Fortune]

OH wait Creager I will defend some auto techs and there is nothing wrong with his job, I should add I also know some VERY talented and wise people who work for Ford, but I think you were on to something touching on the social skills aspect.

one of my local Ford dealers, well the parts manager and I know each other well (along with about 50 other contacts around town at parts places) He knows all about my truck and how I put it together, has climbed around it etc.
Very helpful and professional.

But I have met plenty of service techs I wouldnt let near my non OEM truck with a 10' pole. Usually when they are looking at the work I have done they are scratching their heads. The most popular comment "This is the way Ford should have built them"

 

[Creager]

I was trying to criticize him more then his job. It’s not a 'difficult' profession to get into compared to being an engineer for instance. That’s all I was trying to get at, that and the fact he liked bragging about it. I don’t see anything to brag about.

There are plenty people out there that do this because they LOVE IT. Those are the people like who you said, are very skillful and wise, because they choose to be! I know tons of kids whom take mechanics at CPCC (central piedmont community collage) and a lot of them get jobs at dealerships, unfortunately most of them only taught to swap parts... and that’s it.

He’s one of those people like how you put it; I wouldn’t let near my non OEM truck with a 10' pole... haha that’s a pretty funny statement.

What makes me sad is this is just my hobby and I am guessing you will never catch up, especially with your closed mind, maybe you belong in a Jeep.

one word = HAHAHAHAHAHA