Who is dissatisfied with the 2020 Ten-Speed Trans

[peterk9]

Just sayin'

On the other hand, the 5th Gen has the Cyclone V-6 Engine with the internal water pump that eventually leaks and then grenades the engine...

Somewhat true, but we're talking transmissions here.

Peter

 

[fast_dave]

Again, Just sayin'

5th Gen had a 9 year run, more than enough time for FORD to engineer & test the 2020 6th Gen release - and thus knock it out of the ball park...

But I hear you - yeah, back to 6th Gen 10 Speed Transmissions & Buybacks/Lemon Law - Carry On.

 

[96eb96]

That probably works for oil changes, maybe tire rotation, wiper blade etc.

For them to diagnose a problem, because i don't know what it is, they said a week or 2 upon dropping the car off. They simply aren't going to drop what they're doing, just to fiddle with my car not knowing what the problem is. I used to work for my buddies speed shop. Fixing cars was way easy. Diagnosing an issue could take hours, or days. Not to mention a place like ford, i suspect a lot of the automotive techs to be recent grads. And i graduated from lincoln tech, some of the students were clueless, even at graduation day.

Very hard to find staff now. I sometimes bring my explorer to the dealer for a cheap an oil change, I got into a discussion somehow about how I work on my own cars, know how to use a scan tool, do suspension work, etc. Told him I just did an ABS bleed on my Explorer. He said you can be working tomorrow if you want :lol:, bring your tools. He said you want an application?

 

[1sttimeexplorerowner]

Very hard to find staff now. I sometimes bring my explorer to the dealer for a cheap an oil change, I got into a discussion somehow about how I work on my own cars, know how to use a scan tool, do suspension work, etc. Told him I just did an ABS bleed on my Explorer. He said you can be working tomorrow if you want :lol:, bring your tools. He said you want an application?

I'm pretty sure some dealers are better than others of course. But i think if i bought/leased a car at a particular dealer, that is my go-to dealer for that car. Why would i go to another if i bought the car there? That's my logic at least.

With that said, i was able to go to my dealer earlier this week. I picked up the remaining oil/filters i had left on my reward points. The service dept.....totally clueless. I brought my invoice from the previous time i had picked up some oil and filter and i showed it to 2 service/parts guys. None of them knew what they were looking at. I literally got the question, "so you're here for an oil change or what is this?". I had to tell them like they were 5 year olds, "i want to use my points to get oil and filters". The guy looked at me like i had 2 heads. He gave the paper to some guy in the office, i guess a service writer. Again with a clueless question, "so you don't want to use your points for service in the future?" I told him again, "NO, i want to use ALL of my points and get as much oil and filters as i can". He looked at the paper and was like, "oh........let me check i don't even know if we have this oil in stock".

After 20 minutes, i finally got my oil and filters. And walked to the car. On my way to the car i saw my salesman. He remembered me and asked how i liked the explorer. I told him it's pretty bad. He was kind enough to stop whatever he was doing to talk. I told him about the trans. He said he has had TONS of owners call or come back with the same issue. I asked him if he had a 21' in stock i can drive and he said, "i don't think it'll be that much different". I asked him please can i just drive one at least in the back parking lot. He said yes.

The verdict? The 21's are THE SAME. Same same same.

 

[96eb96]

I'm pretty sure some dealers are better than others of course. But i think if i bought/leased a car at a particular dealer, that is my go-to dealer for that car. Why would i go to another if i bought the car there? That's my logic at least.

With that said, i was able to go to my dealer earlier this week. I picked up the remaining oil/filters i had left on my reward points. The service dept.....totally clueless. I brought my invoice from the previous time i had picked up some oil and filter and i showed it to 2 service/parts guys. None of them knew what they were looking at. I literally got the question, "so you're here for an oil change or what is this?". I had to tell them like they were 5 year olds, "i want to use my points to get oil and filters". The guy looked at me like i had 2 heads. He gave the paper to some guy in the office, i guess a service writer. Again with a clueless question, "so you don't want to use your points for service in the future?" I told him again, "NO, i want to use ALL of my points and get as much oil and filters as i can". He looked at the paper and was like, "oh........let me check i don't even know if we have this oil in stock".

After 20 minutes, i finally got my oil and filters. And walked to the car. On my way to the car i saw my salesman. He remembered me and asked how i liked the explorer. I told him it's pretty bad. He was kind enough to stop whatever he was doing to talk. I told him about the trans. He said he has had TONS of owners call or come back with the same issue. I asked him if he had a 21' in stock i can drive and he said, "i don't think it'll be that much different". I asked him please can i just drive one at least in the back parking lot. He said yes.

The verdict? The 21's are THE SAME. Same same same.

There are ALOT of quality issues now. Check out "Ford Boss Me" on YT. He is an experienced dealership tech who tells it like it is. He worked on a wheel bearing recently for a new Explorer(2020), the bearing looked more beat up and rusty than ones I pulled out of my 96. Also the center axle disconnects are prone to leak. Very major job. 96 was actually the last year of a CAD on the front axle until 2020. It lets you have true 2wd. The new system is electrically actuated and is like 12 hrs of labor to replace.

 

[1sttimeexplorerowner]

There are ALOT of quality issues now. Check out "Ford Boss Me" on YT. He is an experienced dealership tech who tells it like it is. He worked on a wheel bearing recently for a new Explorer(2020), the bearing looked more beat up and rusty than ones I pulled out of my 96. Also the center axle disconnects are prone to leak. Very major job. 96 was actually the last year of a CAD on the front axle until 2020. It lets you have true 2wd. The new system is electrically actuated and is like 12 hrs of labor to replace.

lol And that is why i lease vehicles now. Lately i go to a dealership with the mindset of, lease a car and if i like it that much, when i give it back, just buy the same model (latest year) with the extra revisions done to it. I don't buy out the lease.

But the past couple of leases, i have always found something i don't like about the car, as the months go on, so i always give it back. Leases always work for me.

 

[96eb96]

lol And that is why i lease vehicles now. Lately i go to a dealership with the mindset of, lease a car and if i like it that much, when i give it back, just buy the same model (latest year) with the extra revisions done to it. I don't buy out the lease.

But the past couple of leases, i have always found something i don't like about the car, as the months go on, so i always give it back. Leases always work for me.

I don't even know if you can really DIY the new cars, especially with the computers. If you aren't really handy your best bet is to lease. Then it is someone else's problem.

 

[1sttimeexplorerowner]

I don't even know if you can really DIY the new cars, especially with the computers. If you aren't really handy your best bet is to lease. Then it is someone else's problem.

I still have my weekend toy (corvette) and my motorcycle, those i can wrench on myself. It's my daily drivers that i lease.

 

[1depd]

Although I did not go back and check, it seems to me that the 5th gen did not have the same amount of issues with its transmission when it first came out. The 5th gen had the 6-speed transmission.

Peter

That could be true. How many vehicles were the 6 speed transmissions in compared to the 10 speed? I really don't know. My point was when you have the same number of issues spread over numerous products it doesn't seem as serious. That same number of issues spread over one or two items might seem unacceptable.

If you have a million transmissions over 10 different designs and 100,000 don't work correctly, that means rough 10k of each (assuming the issues are spread evenly) transmission might be faulty. Because that 10 is looked at in comparison to the million produced the transmissions don't look bad. Take that same million transmissions with 100k faulty but spread it over two transmissions, now you are comparing 50k problems to the one million sold. It looks worse.

 

[Billy Dunwoody]

There is no dispute that there seems to be a lot of issues with them. I wonder how many issues there are compared to previous transmissions. Keep in mind Ford used to have several different transmissions available across the various vehicle lines and many vehicles had several transmissions to choose from. They seem to have gone to a one size fits all in this 10 speed. If 1% (WAG) of the transmissions have problems, and that number is spread over 15 different transmissions none of them appear to be bad. If all of those problems are with one transmission then it seems like the transmission is bad.

The new transmission that was put in my 2020 Explorer is still crap. Shifts weird and hesitates. Can't wait to lemon this, get a good amount of $$$ from Ford and move on. I had a 2014 Explorer and besides it being FWD, I loved it. Ford sucks now.

 

[Billy Dunwoody]

I think you have it backwards. Fords service is great but your dealership isn't. Your service adviser might be good, but sorry, when you drop it off and they can't look at it for 10 days is not a Ford problem. It is a dealership problem.

The only good thing about the dealership I use is the service department. I traded a 2015 F-150 the beginning of last year (different dealership). It had the 2.7 engine and I had bought it late in 2015. In that 4 years I had to replace the oil pan twice. The second time was out of warranty. My service advisor told me to call Ford and ask for assistance. I was a bit upset that I had purchased a $45k truck (in 2015) and had to take it in twice in less than four years to get the oil pan replaced. Called Ford and expressed my displeasure starting with I have owned 9 Fords at that time and have never been without one since the late 80's. They didn't cover all of the costs, but they did cover half and provided a rental car for the time it was out.

On point with the thread. I'm not a big fan of the 10-speed. I normally keep the car in eco mode, except weekends. It always seems to be in a gear too high around town and the engine sounds like it's lugging. I've also had issues with it not wanting to down shift when I hit the gas, then suddenly shifting so I get launched. Not a good experience in traffic. Then again, those last problems could simply be that I can't feel my feet and am not applying as much pressure to the gas as I think.

My dealership isn't the best when it comes to appointments but it's Ford's fault for having so many transmission parts on "National Backorder". It literally took 4 weeks to get a transmission wiring harness because no dealer had them in stock and it was a backorder. If Ford didn't have so many quality control issues, they wouldn't have to make as many parts thus wouldn't have a backorder.

 

[Billy Dunwoody]

Couple of thoughts, not just tied to the transmission.

Don't like the service or response you are getting from a dealer? For most of us, there are plenty of dealers to choose from. In my case, I've worked with three local options. I avoid one, but have an excellent track record with another location of the same dealer and the service advisor there. They aren't the closest, but they have always done right by me.

The one I avoid takes appointments and then doesn't look at them that day. The other one does. Guess who gets my business.

Point being, buying a car and the service the dealer provides can be night and day... Don't be afraid to shop.

And to anyone complaining about delays and backorders on parts, go check out virtually any brands supply right now. There is is issues for all of them. Not a Ford specific issue.

On the trans front, so far I am satisfied with my '21. It does lug lower than I'd like at times, but no different than I've experience with my ecoboost powered F150...

1. Visited 3 closest dealers to me and they are all run roughly the same.
2. If you lived in Los Angeles, you would realize going to another dealer 10 miles away could mean a 2hr round trip drive or if a rental/loaner isn't available, it might be a $60 uber. Not practical when my 2020 Explorer has been in the shop 7 times in the last year and some weeks I work 80+hrs
3. Backorders happen and I get it. But a 30 day backorder for a part is ridiculous. Again, if Ford didn't have soooo many problems with this transmission, they wouldn't be in this position. The 10 speed absolutely blows, even the new one put in mine as a replacement still hesitates and shifts weird

 

[1depd]

My dealership isn't the best when it comes to appointments but it's Ford's fault for having so many transmission parts on "National Backorder". It literally took 4 weeks to get a transmission wiring harness because no dealer had them in stock and it was a backorder. If Ford didn't have so many quality control issues, they wouldn't have to make as many parts thus wouldn't have a backorder.

I think your backorder thought is a little off. The 10 speed transmission is used across several vehicles and as I pointed out since it is the only transmission even a 1% faulty rate means there is a high demand for that one item. If this 1% faulty rate were spread over 6-10 different transmissions the faulty part would come from several different suppliers/factories. Add to this the same factory has to make parts for the new transmissions further stressing the supply chain. People are still scared of COVID and not wanting to work resulting in supply issues. This is an issue with a one off item. If something is found to be bad or undesirable it ruins a lot of different products. In this case the transmission has a few issues. Since it is used in several different applications it causes issues with several different vehicles.

That F-150 I traded last year had issues with the oil pan leaking. If that were the only engine option Ford provided for the the F-150 it would have given the truck a bad name for always leaving oil spots on your driveway. Since it was only one engine option and it was the only one that had the issue it really didn't affect the 150 line in it's entirety.

You can think Ford sucks and that is fine. I'm not going to try to change your mind. I don't get the "fanboy" arguments (my all time favorite car is the '87 Monte Carlo SS). The reality is none are any better or worse than any of the other manufacturers. I also have the idea that certain brands are better for certain people. If you buy outside that brand you are disappointed. Before I figured out Ford was the brand for me, I had owned GMs, Dodges and Nissans. The GMs and Dodges I owned were all in the shop every 3-4 months for warranty work. The Nissan I owned was always being repaired. The only brand I found that wasn't always being repaired was Ford. I must add the caveat that if my last truck was my first and only experience with Ford products, I probably wouldn't have bought another. It wasn't bad, just not that great. I have friends/family who swear by other brands. I've never had luck with any of them. They've never had any luck with Fords.

 

[1sttimeexplorerowner]

I think your backorder thought is a little off. The 10 speed transmission is used across several vehicles and as I pointed out since it is the only transmission even a 1% faulty rate means there is a high demand for that one item. If this 1% faulty rate were spread over 6-10 different transmissions the faulty part would come from several different suppliers/factories. Add to this the same factory has to make parts for the new transmissions further stressing the supply chain. People are still scared of COVID and not wanting to work resulting in supply issues. This is an issue with a one off item. If something is found to be bad or undesirable it ruins a lot of different products. In this case the transmission has a few issues. Since it is used in several different applications it causes issues with several different vehicles.

That F-150 I traded last year had issues with the oil pan leaking. If that were the only engine option Ford provided for the the F-150 it would have given the truck a bad name for always leaving oil spots on your driveway. Since it was only one engine option and it was the only one that had the issue it really didn't affect the 150 line in it's entirety.

You can think Ford sucks and that is fine. I'm not going to try to change your mind. I don't get the "fanboy" arguments (my all time favorite car is the '87 Monte Carlo SS). The reality is none are any better or worse than any of the other manufacturers. I also have the idea that certain brands are better for certain people. If you buy outside that brand you are disappointed. Before I figured out Ford was the brand for me, I had owned GMs, Dodges and Nissans. The GMs and Dodges I owned were all in the shop every 3-4 months for warranty work. The Nissan I owned was always being repaired. The only brand I found that wasn't always being repaired was Ford. I must add the caveat that if my last truck was my first and only experience with Ford products, I probably wouldn't have bought another. It wasn't bad, just not that great. I have friends/family who swear by other brands. I've never had luck with any of them. They've never had any luck with Fords.

That's very odd. Everyone i know that owned a ford had issues. The dealer i got my XLT from, my co-worker has bought like 10 cars from there. He's a ford guy but his cars are always at the dealer. And by always i mean at least once a month. CEL randomly pops up. Gauge cluster all of a sudden doesn't illuminate. Infotainment screen randomly cuts in and out. Backup camera doesn't turn on sometimes. Suspension noises, wheel wobble, wheel bearings going out at 10k miles. His son is on his 4th mustang. Same thing. Engine tick. Wheel bearing etc. When i ask him why do you continue to buy ford if they're always in the shop, his answer was, "my dad told me if a car gives you so many problems, don't give up on it, learn from it and hope it gets better". lol and that's exactly what he's doing. It makes zero sense but hey more power to him if he wants to be brand loyal.

My friend has a hellcat, that makes 800rwhp. ZERO issues. And him and I beat on our cars every weekend we get to cruise together. I have a near 700rwhp corvette. Owned it a little over 4 years. ZERO issues. Never had a check engine light, never had engine noises, never leaked any type of fluid ever. And i don't baby the car. It has almost 30k miles and i can assure you those 30k miles weren't babied. I drive it all year round so in winter i do take it easy but during these months now, the car gets driven HARD every time it leaves the house. The car doesn't skip a beat.

My XLT, on the other hand, small issues from week 1 basically.

Every car has their issues. Sometimes you're lucky, sometimes you're not. So far, this being my first actually brand new ford (had used fords before), it's not looking good in terms of first impression on a new car.

 

[jhu8]

That's very odd. Everyone i know that owned a ford had issues. The dealer i got my XLT from, my co-worker has bought like 10 cars from there. He's a ford guy but his cars are always at the dealer. And by always i mean at least once a month. CEL randomly pops up. Gauge cluster all of a sudden doesn't illuminate. Infotainment screen randomly cuts in and out. Backup camera doesn't turn on sometimes. Suspension noises, wheel wobble, wheel bearings going out at 10k miles. His son is on his 4th mustang. Same thing. Engine tick. Wheel bearing etc. When i ask him why do you continue to buy ford if they're always in the shop, his answer was, "my dad told me if a car gives you so many problems, don't give up on it, learn from it and hope it gets better". lol and that's exactly what he's doing. It makes zero sense but hey more power to him if he wants to be brand loyal.

My friend has a hellcat, that makes 800rwhp. ZERO issues. And him and I beat on our cars every weekend we get to cruise together. I have a near 700rwhp corvette. Owned it a little over 4 years. ZERO issues. Never had a check engine light, never had engine noises, never leaked any type of fluid ever. And i don't baby the car. It has almost 30k miles and i can assure you those 30k miles weren't babied. I drive it all year round so in winter i do take it easy but during these months now, the car gets driven HARD every time it leaves the house. The car doesn't skip a beat.

My XLT, on the other hand, small issues from week 1 basically.

Every car has their issues. Sometimes you're lucky, sometimes you're not. So far, this being my first actually brand new ford (had used fords before), it's not looking good in terms of first impression on a new car.

Why did you buy a Ford in the first place then? But guess what, all your little issues, they’re in every single forum. For every manufacturer. Sucks you’re having those issues but don’t act like they don’t happen in other manufacturers.

 

[bedwards]

I have a 2018 F150 XLT and a 2020 Explorer XLT and I'm not having any issues period =]

sorry forgot to add F150 on my post

 

[EXFAN]

I have a 2018 XLT and a 2020 Explorer XLT and I'm not having any issues period =]

I just traded my '18 XLT for my '21 LTD. Would be interested in your comparison between the two.

 

[geronimo_jenkins]

What’s most bothersome about these transmission issues is that they boil down to bad tuning. I’d like to give the engineers the benefit of the doubt that the rough 1-2 clunk was unavoidable for emissions cycle reasons, but it makes me feel the engineers didn’t care as much as they should, or money wasn’t directed their way to improve the transmission’s operation.

The lack of rev matching on downshifts means using the paddles is futile. The tow-haul mode seems great on paper to save brakes but sending all that force through the torque converter just seems wrong and it jostles my car and trailer too much.

The gear whine that’s constantly in the background sucks too but I attribute that to run of the mill cost cutting in materials. Not an “issue” per say but just a compromise.

It was a mistake not to just drop $10k more on a similarly equipped BMW X5 x40i rather than my Platinum since I never needed a third row. And the true cost on paper at this point wouldn’t be that much more considering the 2020 X5s have held their value surprisingly well.

It’s hard to not have rose tinted glasses on a test drive after waiting years for a product to come out, but if I’m honest with myself these issues have always been here, but my willingness to stand by the product has decreased each day. It feels disingenuous to consider a buyback or lemonning the vehicle. I just want Ford to admit they’ve made mistakes and release some software patches to improve the transmission and infotainment.

It feels good to get these feelings out to strangers on the internet.

 

[1sttimeexplorerowner]

Why did you buy a Ford in the first place then? But guess what, all your little issues, they’re in every single forum. For every manufacturer. Sucks you’re having those issues but don’t act like they don’t happen in other manufacturers.

I been an explorer fan for years. And i wanted to finally try it out. Like i said i lease my daily drivers so this was an opportunity to try an explorer this time around.

I know issues are on every forum but it seems that when people post their issues about their explorer, everyone seems to defend it as if it's an anomaly. Like the issues are well known here as the threads and every single article suggests.

 

[jhu8]

What’s most bothersome about these transmission issues is that they boil down to bad tuning. I’d like to give the engineers the benefit of the doubt that the rough 1-2 clunk was unavoidable for emissions cycle reasons, but it makes me feel the engineers didn’t care as much as they should, or money wasn’t directed their way to improve the transmission’s operation.

The lack of rev matching on downshifts means using the paddles is futile. The tow-haul mode seems great on paper to save brakes but sending all that force through the torque converter just seems wrong and it jostles my car and trailer too much.

The gear whine that’s constantly in the background sucks too but I attribute that to run of the mill cost cutting in materials. Not an “issue” per say but just a compromise.

It was a mistake not to just drop $10k more on a similarly equipped BMW X5 x40i rather than my Platinum since I never needed a third row. And the true cost on paper at this point wouldn’t be that much more considering the 2020 X5s have held their value surprisingly well.

It’s hard to not have rose tinted glasses on a test drive after waiting years for a product to come out, but if I’m honest with myself these issues have always been here, but my willingness to stand by the product has decreased each day. It feels disingenuous to consider a buyback or lemonning the vehicle. I just want Ford to admit they’ve made mistakes and release some software patches to improve the transmission and infotainment.

It feels good to get these feelings out to strangers on the internet.

I agree on the tuning aspect. My 17 transmission is a little funky at times as well. The gears it chooses and just thr shift points in general, especially between 1-2 and 2-3.

The main reason I want the ST is for the power. Otherwise I’d just keep my 17. I looked into the new grand Cherokee with the 5.7 but just not a fan of the the styling. Not sure much of anything else that does what the ST does for the price.