Why BOSCH plugs not rrecommended

[dgracer]

DirectHits Ignition.. Is it Any Good?

I too have read about the DirectHits system. Does anyone have positive/negative things to report?

 

[A Quiet Boom]

Just a little more info to add here, I used to run a ten second 410 stroker mustang, motor only no NOS, blower etc. I also had an MSD 7al ignition. So why is this relevant? In a drag car every change to the motor shows up in the time slip and I did some testing first with brand new Bosch plugs all gapped correctly and indexed 3 passes for an average, then I switched back to the Autolites I had been running and ran 3 passes for an average.A ll testing was done on the same day and no other changes where made. Bottom line the Bosch plugs performed as I had expected 0.09 seconds on average SLOWER. So why did I expect it to be slower? Well look at the center electrode on a platinum plug vs. a regular plug, it's smaller! I believe regular plugs produce a "fatter" spark than the platinums and this shows up as more horsepower due to better combustion. Losing nearly a tenth on a car that runs the quarter in the high tens at about 130MPH is a big loss not to mention the 2 MPH drop in speed also representing a big loss actually it's about a 25 rwhp loss or about 5% of my rwhp. Add to that the fact that changing regular plugs from time to time gives you insight as to how well your engine is running and any combustion problems it may be having and it makes no sense to me to install more costly but poor performing plugs that I'll periodically inspect anyway. My .02

 

[Nate1]

Listen, I'm not here to bash you, I think the 4+ plugs are a waste of money and are a marketing hype, and if you see performance gains after installing them, it's probably because you inadvertntly fixed another problem in doing so. Anyways, 0.09 seconds on the track really doesnt prove anything... I'm just saying, a few mph of wind could make that change for you... so I don't think that had to do with the plugs. Still, I would go with some Motocrafts... and just live with it if you loose .4 hp. *sigh* I could argue that you loose volume in your piston from the extra prongs, but guess what, IT DOESN'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE! If you want to buy 4+ plugs, be my guest. If you wanna buy motorcraft plugs, kudos to you. But seriously, to each his own... we dont need a 3 page thread on a set of sparkplugs... it doesnt matter that much!

Aurgh, just my 3 am 2¢!
-----Nate

 

[A Quiet Boom]

Originally posted by nweibley
.... Anyways, 0.09 seconds on the track really doesnt prove anything... I'm just saying, a few mph of wind could make that change for you... so I don't think that had to do with the plugs. ...

It proves a bunch when your talking about a well sorted bracket car! Add to that the fact that I'm very serious when it comes to testing which is why I did all the testing on the same day with the same conditions and even compared timeslips with a few buddies to be sure it wasn't track conditions or wind speed/direction. I realize you weren't out to insult me and I am not insulted, I just don't think you realize how consistent a serious bracket car is, if you cannot stay within a 0.10 variance well you might as well stay home. BTW I agree that a three page thread on spark plugs is rather ridiculous, my reason for replying was simply to add my experience to the mix and hopefully shed some light on the subject from an engine builder/racer's point of view.

 

[Nate1]

Okay, I'll consent, I'm not a track guy and dont race my cars anywhere but when a ricer pulls up next to me. I guess I don't realize how consistent they perform. Ohh well, just proves I have lots more to learn!
Thanks for informing me!
-----Nate

 

[A Quiet Boom]

Ricer? I said 10 second 410 stroker mustang, that's a 351w bored and stroked to 410" it runs in the tens WITHOUT using nitrous or a blower. Rear wheel horsepower is roughly 550, about 625 at the flywheel, if I pulled beside you all you would see is a wheels up launch and disappearing taillights! Are you informed now LOL

 

[410Fortune]

Well the +4 plugs may not work good for your application. What fuel do you run? You are carburated or Fuel injected? You are running the MSD ignition and a hot coil, you have a 351 stroked, I dont think platinum plugs are for you.

The +4's do make a difference in the cologne v 6 engines, I can tell you that. I ran them in my 2.9l and now my OHV 4.0. I have tried autolite's, I have tried motocrafts, both regular and platinum and none of the plugs run as smooth as the +4's. Like stated above start ups both when warm and cold are improved (less cranking). I can tell teh difference and thats good enough for me....I'm on my third set and will contiue to use them. I have also ran them in a CRX and a 4.0L Jeep I6, excellent results.

Some people like them, some dont. At the track with a modded V8 they may slow you down when compared to a conventional plug, but then all you are concerned about is getting that 10 seconds......

The bosch +4 works good for one reason, because it exposes the tip of the electrode to the combustion chamber, giving the spark a direct path, doesnt seem like much but it makes a difference. Its an old trick to file down the tip of the plug, nothing really new about it. All I know is I tried them and love them, did I gain 20HP or a half second in the 1/4 mile? nope. But the truck runs smoother, has no hesitation, quicker throttle response and starts on the first bump no questions asked.....

 

[A Quiet Boom]

Originally posted by 410Fortune
I can tell teh difference and thats good enough for me....

And that's all that matters isn't it! You're right a 13.5:1 compression drag engine is a whole different animal than a daily driver, in fact all that really matters in a daily driver is how well is drives and how good the mileage is, most people would never notice the power difference whether it was up or down. I can say this much though, I run Bosch platinums in my old 460 powered beater/work truck because they don't foul from oil as bad a regular plugs. All that matters in that truck is that it starts and drives the few times a year I need it to haul something for the house. I just don't want people to buy the hype that a simple spark plug change is going to give them huge benefits, there very well may be benefits but I doubt they're drastic unless your old plugs were in really bad shape.

 

[410Fortune]

So we can all just get along....

Yes 13.5:1 is quite a bit of ccompression! Even up here a mile high! hehehe thats enough to blow out most sparks.........


I have quite a few mods on my 93 OHV and the bosch plugs work great. on my 2.9L I was running advanced timing, MSD ignition and coil, cold air, ported intakes, plenum spacers, the whole shebang. The Bosch's worked better then the NGK's and Motocrafts......

Nexy summer I am building a new 4.0L since mine hass 130K on it, I will be punching it .030 over, running a 410 cam, porting the heads and intakes, etc, etc.....so we shall see how they do in there with a 11 or 12:1 compression and forged pistions (no blower for me).

Happy Holidays!!!!!!!!! and dont go buying into the hype, they work good but they are not gonna make signifigant performance gains.........

 

[01EB5.0]

A Quiet Boom: In your application it would not make sense to use plaitnum plugs. Plaitnum are made for longevity...they are created to outlast standard plugs. With your application longevity is not an issue...pure performance and power is what your concerned about. that is why it does not suprise me the plaitnums did not improve anything.

Many people use plaitnums on the street because they do last longer and you don;t have to go pull them out as often. The +4's can go for 100,000 before needing replacement on a good engine.
The Bosch also can clean themselves very well and fire even in engines that don;t run so well, such as your old beater you mentioned.

So far I have not put the +4's in my new 2001 Explorer yet, but I plan to in the next week or two and will let you guys know if i notice anything. I think in my 95 all I noticed was a little better MPG. My 2001 has one of those MPG computers so I will see if it notes any gains.

 

[A Quiet Boom]

Like I said previously I just wanted people to understand that on a good running engine Platinum plugs aren't going to provide big performance gains and while I concede that they do last longer and will fire in adverse conditions there is something to be said about at least checking your plugs periodically to get some insight as to how your engine is running (this is a great way to find a faulty injector etc.) I had to chuckle at the reply about using German plugs in German cars, Japanese in Japanese etc. my summertime toy is a 1966 Porsche 911 with a 1981 3.0SC engine converted to dual carbs like the early cars, that engine runs fantastic using NGK plugs LOL I run one step lower in the heat range than stock to help offset the SC engine's propensity to detontate with today's gasoline. Lastly my whole reason for doing the Bosch comparison on my dragcar was not only to see what they did to the power but more importantly to see if they were anymore consistent that regular plugs, while I realize 3 passes my not be enough passes to really notice their variance vs. the regular plugs in 3 passes was 75% higher, had they had a lower variance I would have strongly considered them since it's consistency not HP the wins in bracket racing. In the end I find only two uses for platinums, first in an old worn out engine and second in an engine that's driven a lot more than normal and regular maintenance is sometimes missed. In these cases it's more important to get from point A to point B than it is to have a perfectly functioning engine.

 

[AZExplorer]

Ceramic failure in x4

I was tuning up my 91 due to rough idle, missing, general yuk, and purchased a new set of x4. When I pulled out the right set, all three had shattered ceramic and almost no electrode. They had 60k. Thought long and hard about the new set, but slapped them in. I was not putting in the busted ones again.

 

[DocVijay]

Sounds like there may be something going on in the right bank. Strange that all three on the right side would have broken insulator and none on the left side. You should check to see if there is something else going on. Yes, could just be coincidence, but doesn't seem like it.

 

[RVZFloydian]

It has always seemed to me that some peoples big gains may be someone elses negligible gains.
Any piece or part is prone to failure and no company can boast 100% reliability, so there's always going to be debate on what works and what doesn't.
As for my personal experience, run what it came with is what works for me. After changing 2 sets of Chumpians in 3 months for quitting, (no fouling or deterioration just quit firing) I'll never buy another set.
That is my personal .02

 

[IgotTwo]

Right bank? Plugs?
Funny you mentioned that...
When I was talking to the head mechanic at the Ford Dealer (who was a very nice guy) when my engine blew, I mentioned that I had plug problems with my 97 SOHC from day one.

He said "right bank over heating?"
He knew.....not to mention the right bank blew on the engine. I should have pursued it...but I didn't.

So even with the new engine I had to pull the plugs. The right bank plugs all had a slight brown marking below just short of the top on the ceramic...but not the left (as in driver's side)? replacing the plugs after only 6k miles? helped...but I do not want to make that a habit.

Could it have something to do with that "waste" spark ignition? I think it is the right bank that gets the "waste" spark and that side comes through with non plat plugs??

Anyone have any thoughts? or am I missing something simple?

 

[holter95]

Bosch Platinums no good

I've heard the negative hype, but now I have my own testament. I just pulled my Bosch Platinums yesterday after a I lost the #1 cylinder to plug failure. I remember from the start thinking the electrode was a puny looking thing and I wasn't really sold on the Bosch's in the first place, only installed them due to availability. Gave me quite a worry when I'm only hitting on 5 cylinders. The plugs only had about 20K on them.

Back to Autolite 2X platinums as it should be

 

[410Fortune]

Why Autolite's? Why not Motocraft.

If you ditch the Bosch +4's try out te NGK platinums, those are good plugs.

 

[holter95]

These were the Bosch Platinums, not the +4s. I've had great luck with Autolite and they're recommended as a factory replacement. Nothing really more than that, I never bought into the hype of the great mileage/power increase due to spark plugs.

But when they fail outright, then I have big issues.

 

[410Fortune]

I dont blame you.

Who recommends AC delco products in a Ford as a factory replacement?

How did the plug "fail"? electrode break off?

 

[Lifted95X]

Originally posted by 410Fortune
Who recommends AC delco products in a Ford as a factory replacement?

Good question....shoot that person.