Why is my front driveshaft CV joint smoking?

[84FLH]

Hey everyone. 2000 Mountaineer. 397,677 miles. Orig t-case and transmission. Appreciate everybody's input on this problem. Thank you.


The Situation
Today a shop replaced the front d/s u-joint. They used a NAPA part, which they said was made by Dorman. I'd driven about 7 miles at steady 60mph when the entire vehicle started stuttering real bad, like it was running over those serrations on side of the road to wake up sleeping drivers.

I pulled over within 50 yards. Looked under vehicle and smoke was pouring off new u-joint. I touched it with bare hand and got burned.

EDIT 2/21
Waited on side of road 30 mins for u-joint to cool. After 30 min was hot to touch but not burning hot. Drove 1/2 mile at 30 mph to exit highway. No stuttering at 30 mph but stuttering started at 35 mph. I never went past 35 mph to see how bad stuttering was. I didn't think to see if stuttering corresponded with transmission shifting into another gear. Could the fact that stuttering started at 35 mph mean a gear in transmission went bad?

Shop who did the work flatbedded it back to their garage. This local shop's been in business 50 years. Good reputation from local townsfolk. Good internet reputation.

Any ideas why the u-j started smoking? Could it be my t-case? Transmission? (5R).


Background
This driveshaft u-joint was replaced about 4 months ago by another shop that's close to my house. About one month ago I started hearing same metallic clack-clack-clack (much louder than clicking) noise as before u-joint was replaced. Shop who did the job put vehicle on lift, let it run 20 mins. Driveshaft u-joint never made a sound. They said drive it and bring back if sound comes back.


This Morning
Heard u-joint clack-clack-clack noise on way to work. Work is 30 miles from home. Was two miles from work when heard noise, so continued to work. When made left turn into driveway the clack noise got 5x louder. As I was in the turn, doing 3 mph, I heard a few extra loud clacks and then my driver's front wheel kicked left/right once and only once. Could feel it in steering wheel.


This Afternoon
As I was 35 miles from shop who orig replaced u-joint, I called local shop across street from work. They flatbedded the vehicle at 9:30am. Had it ready 2:30pm. $498 including $85 flatbed fee. Not too bad for my situation.


The Ride Home: Stuttering and Smoking
See above "The Situation"

 

[dvdswan]

Could be several things. Bad u-joint where the bearings were dry and they heated up to the point of failure. U-joint installed incorrectly. U-joint was the incorrect one in the box. Just don't know until it is pulled apart (if possible). Since it got so hot that it was smoking the cups may have welded themselves to the joint. Then you just have to cut the u-joint in half to get it out.

 

[84FLH]

Could be several things. Bad u-joint where the bearings were dry and they heated up to the point of failure. U-joint installed incorrectly. U-joint was the incorrect one in the box. Just don't know until it is pulled apart (if possible). Since it got so hot that it was smoking the cups may have welded themselves to the joint. Then you just have to cut the u-joint in half to get it out.

Lack of grease: Mechanic said he packed bearings heavily with grease.

Incorrect install: There's only 6 bolts holding u-joint to t-case but maybe someone screwed it up.

After the stuttering incident, vehicle drove without stuttering 1/2 mile at 35 mph to exit ramp. Whenever hit 35 mph stuttering would begin, but lightly, not as heavy as at 60 mph. Never went past 35 mph during that 1/2 mile drive to exit ramp.

 

[84FLH]

Thought
I think the stuttering was because something was impeding the front driveshaft from freely rotating. The question is, what was causing that impeding? I guess t-case, front diff, and transmission.


T-case? I dunno. If t-case were bad it wouldn't let car drive up to 35 mph like I did to the exit, without stuttering

Front Diff? Probably not. If diff were bad it probably wouldn't let car drive up to 35 mph w/out stuttering.

Transmission? My luck would be this is the problem.


Anyone care to chime in? Thank you.

 

[Mr. Alligator]

Agree with @dvdswan … Still sounds like u-joint problem. Lack of grease immediately comes to mind, as well as the “Dorman” brand.

I believe that you could stand all your brakes all day while your drive, creating substantial resistance, and still not fry that u-joint. You should be able to tow large loads, and the u-joint should not be the weak link. Never heard of a transmission causing u-joint destruction.

I would try u-joint repair, again, before transmission, front diff, transfer case, etc…

Good luck, and stay safe.

 

[wollimann]

U-joint installed incorrectly.

Maybe a needle of one cup is falling inside the cup while installing the joint.
This will produce heat and let the grease smokes.

Which joint will getting hot and produce smoke?
Which one was changed by the shop?

 

[410Fortune]

When you say drivers side u joint do you mean the drivers side cv axle? There is no drivers side u joint on a 2000 model

Clearly the u joint at the front of the driveshaft was the part that got hot and smoking

It is very easy to check for looseness in a u joint

I would have the shop check their work
Dorman makes decent cv axles

It sounds like you had no shakes before they changed your drivers cv axle
After the replacement you have a bad shake

So they either missed something or they installed a faulty cv axle

 

[C420sailor]

If you’re talking about the actual driveshaft—transfer case to front differential—my bet is that an inferior CV joint was installed. There are kits that replace the bearings, cup, and boot—the Dorman kit—but they don’t replace the end of the shaft itself. After 400,000, that part may be sufficiently worn that a simple Dorman kit won’t cut it.

If that is all the case, I’d remove the shaft. Order the Dana/Spicer CV joint. This joint is the FULL joint and comes assembled. Bring it to a proper driveline shop and they will cut the old joint off the shaft, weld the new Dana unit on the end, and then dynamically balance it.

And change the fluid in the transfer case. I’d be afraid that it was thermally degraded from the heat.

 

[wollimann]

Order the Dana/Spicer CV joint. This joint is the FULL joint and comes assembled. Bring it to a proper driveline shop and they will cut the old joint off the shaft, weld the new Dana unit on the end, and then dynamically balance

Spicer 032SG80002 Driveshaft CV Joint Ford Explorer Ranger Mountaineer Aviator​

Spicer has the most durable parts (my opinion).

In this case the joint $331.25

Spicer 032SG80002 Dana Ford Explorer CV Joint Assembly

Spicer 032SG80002 Dana Ford Explorer CV Joint Assembly

www.drivetrainamerica.com

regards

Wolfgang

 

[C420sailor]

Unless it has gone up, it was much cheaper on Rock Auto. Like $200

And yes it is the far superior part and fix

 

[410Fortune]

How much is a whole driveshaft?

$165-260 at rockauto

We have a bunch of low mile used factory ones here
I know there is also a conversion to get rid of the cv cup and run a traditional cardan joint

 

[Mbrooks420]

How much is a whole driveshaft?

$165-260 at rockauto

We have a bunch of low mile used factory ones here
I know there is also a conversion to get rid of the cv cup and run a traditional cardan joint

The last “rebuilt” shaft I purchased was almost $400 and lasted under 20k.

Currently rocking a local mom and pop rebuilt. They welded new splines to the shaft, and installed a new spicer CV. I think it was about $350 for the joint, and shaft repair.

 

[410Fortune]

Does ford sell driveshafts? Last year I bought a new front driveshaft from ford for our 01 excursion it was only $350

 

[Mbrooks420]

Does ford sell driveshafts? Last year I bought a new front driveshaft from ford for our 01 excursion it was only $350

I never considered factory with how expensive the aftermarket stuff is. If they’re available I’ll grab one to hang on the wall for next time.

 

[C420sailor]

I’d love to see a list of the current stock of factory parts that are still available for these trucks

 

[410Fortune]

When we moved to Idaho our excursion needed a new front d shaft so I had the local dudes install 3 new u joints and rebuild the cardan joint it was $400 for that service… 6 months later the cardan joint started to squeal. This time I rebuilt it (first time I ever did the centering ball spring and seal myself) and installed 3 more u joints, about $150’worth of parts. 5 years later it failed again the shaft was just worn out (240k miles, 4” lift, etc) looking for a replacement I found the local ford dealer brand new shaft $350 and some change lol
Hoping it will last 200k miles like the factory unit did. I added a 1” spacer at the t case to help with the lift. I was surprised at the price for ford quality part

Phone is the best tool we have in the shop sometimes

 

[84FLH]

HOLY SMOKES, everyone!! I didn't get any notices of all your posts!! I'd have responded pronto if I did! Really do appreciate everyone's input. Here's the latest SNAFU.

First, the part in question is the cv joint at front of t-case, not u-joint at front diff.

Second, yesterday (Friday 2/24) shop replaced the smoking joint (pun intended) with another one from NAPA. NAPA website states this front driveshaft cvj is Dorman. Shop said they test drove 12 miles at up to 80 mph on highway with no shuddering, no smoking, no nothing. Here's why I doubt that....

I picked vehicle up 3:30 pm. Drove less than 8 miles at steady 60 mph on mostly straight highway before vehicle started shuddering/vibrating same as before. Sounded and felt like driving on highway rumble strips.

Pulled over real fast. No smoke from cv joint but too hot to touch for more than split second.

Shop flatbedded vehicle to their shop. Removed front driveshaft and cv joint. The part of cv joint that holds ball bearings and splined bushing was stiff and gritty. Plenty of grease but bearings damaged.

Shop said there couldn't be two bad cvj's in a row. Sounded pretty plausible to me. Shop said driveshaft must be bent. Sounded plausible but shop had no steel straight edge to lay against shaft to check straightness!.

Shop said he'd give full refund to my card for cv joint. Haven't checked my card yet.

I left shop with driveshaft and all U joint hardware.

Truck drove 25 miles home perfectly at 60 on cruise. Little bit of steering studdering (like 4WD on dry pavement) due to (I think/hope) air in power steering because shop pushed truck into garage bay (I lost reverse last year and not spending $3800 on a 397,567 mile truck) with engine off but turning steering wheel by hand. So I think air got in steering system. Haven't left house all day. Will make some figure 8's tomorrow in parking lot and see if steering studdering goes away.

Q1: if shop didn't put alignment marks on driveshaft (to u joint and t-case) before removing driveshaft, and then installed driveshaft in different timing position than before, could that cause enough runout to ruin the cv joint?

Q2: how can I test t-case front output shaft bearing; try move/wiggle by hand?

Q3: if t-case output shaft bearing worn, or if output shaft hole in t-case is egg shaped, or if something else bad in t-case, can any of those t-case conditions cause driveshaft to wobble enough to ruin cv joint?

Q4: while running with front driveshaft removed, is there anything in front diff or front end components that would cause steering studdering (like 4WD on dry pavement)? This is 4.0 V6, not V8.


THANKS AGAIN EVERYONE. Great forum and great people here.

 

[84FLH]

PS. With 397,x.. miles I just may run w/o front driveshaft until I find a replacement vehicle. Or until winter approaches, LOL.

Local parts yard has t-case with same part number as on my t-case tag. Said 85, 000 miles on it. Price is $125. Might go look at it this week, just in case. Condition might tell me what real mileage is, LOL.

 

[wollimann]

PS. With 397,x.. miles I just may run w/o front driveshaft until I find a replacement vehicle. Or until winter approaches, LOL.

Local parts yard has t-case with same part number as on my t-case tag. Said 85, 000 miles on it. Price is $125. Might go look at it this week, just in case. Condition might tell me what real mileage is, LOL.

The Borg Warner 4405 is not a very durable t-case, there are some parts which could fail.
But a t-case with 85000 miles should be better than yours.
Without looking inside you could not detect the condition.
Maybe your t-case produce so much heat (too much oil in it -> transmission oil goes through
the t-case input seal or the t-case oilpump did not work anymore)
that this will affect the cv joint.

Your questions

Q1: I would say no, if the drifeshaft is balanced the position has no effect. If you would choose
a brand new driveshaft there are no alignment marks too.

Q2: There is no way to test the t-case bearings, maybe you are feeling a little play at the output
flange or see some oil in this area.

Q3: Some little vibration did not ruin the cv joint.

Q4: Without front driveshaft normally nothing will cause steering issues. Think air is in your
power steering, to get it out get the steering to its limits right and left several times.
Maybe your front suspension alignment is not optimal or some parts are worn, that causes
steering issues.

Got my Ex 4.0 SOHC since 1997 with now 300000 Km but never had those issues with driveshafts
or joints. But the second engine, second transmission, third t-case, both differentials overhauled.
Hope that you could fix your problems or find a replacement vehicle in good shape.

regards Wolfgang

 

[84FLH]

The Borg Warner 4405 is not a very durable t-case, there are some parts which could fail.
But a t-case with 85000 miles should be better than yours.
Without looking inside you could not detect the condition.
Maybe your t-case produce so much heat (too much oil in it -> transmission oil goes through
the t-case input seal or the t-case oilpump did not work anymore)
that this will affect the cv joint.

Your questions

Q1: I would say no, if the drifeshaft is balanced the position has no effect. If you would choose
a brand new driveshaft there are no alignment marks too.

Q2: There is no way to test the t-case bearings, maybe you are feeling a little play at the output
flange or see some oil in this area.

Q3: Some little vibration did not ruin the cv joint.

Q4: Without front driveshaft normally nothing will cause steering issues. Think air is in your
power steering, to get it out get the steering to its limits right and left several times.
Maybe your front suspension alignment is not optimal or some parts are worn, that causes
steering issues.

Got my Ex 4.0 SOHC since 1997 with now 300000 Km but never had those issues with driveshafts
or joints. But the second engine, second transmission, third t-case, both differentials overhauled.
Hope that you could fix your problems or find a replacement vehicle in good shape.

regards Wolfgang

Thanks, Wolfgang.

The t-case has an oil pump? Is it located outside or inside t-case?

There's a lot of fluid leak on back of t-case where rear driveshaft exits t-case. What's that indicate?

Thanks again.