Will I lose low end torque by using an B303 cam with a mild 306?

[ssp.interceptor]

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[ssp.interceptor]

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[TBMounty50]

Thanks ssp.interceptor for understanding what I was asking and trying to help and not preach. I don't mind your debunking on my thread either, have at it.

Anyone have a mustang friend who wants to buy a B cam? Sell it to 'em real cheap!

Don't get ahead of me on my build, no ported heads or 5 speed yet. They are coming. I figure the trans swap will be easier if I do it all at once while I'm swapping engines.

 

[ssp.interceptor]

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[rjcooperss396]

If the heads are not ported yet, don't waste the money if your trying to max out low end torque. Going back to my last post, and knowing where your at now: stock heads, the Ex cam (considering the heads aren't ported and you want the most low rpm torque you can get) I would still change the high mileage springs along with the timing chain, Tmoss ported HO intake (will make better torque under 4,000rpm), look at $250 to have him port match the lower for GT40p's and to open up the throat for a 65mm T.B. will be your best/cheapest bet, headers and tune.

-Nick

There's no need to spend money porting the heads, just do it yourself. Concentrate on the exhaust. Below is what I did on mine. With new springs and a 3 angle valve job I only have $200 into the heads.

I did a complete rebuild on my engine which I'm using it for the V8 conversion I'm doing on my '95 SAS 4.0 Explorer. I use my truck for 4 wheeling and running around town so I didn't care about making a ton more horsepower and I wanted to keep the torque low for wheeling. The block is .030 over with new cast pistons. The new pistons are .030 below the deck, have +3cc valve reliefs just like the factory ones and the heads have 60cc combustion chambers after some unshrouding of the intake valve and being milled .020. I used a .039 (stock is .050) head gaskets which gives me 9.11:1 compression. This should give me the a little more low end torque I'm after and I'm running the stock Explorer cam to keep the power range low.

 

[ssp.interceptor]

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[CDW6212R]

If a rebuild for the engine is part of the plan, raise the compression ratio. You can gain a good chunk of power and fuel mileage by going up to 9.5:1 or 10:1, depending on your fuel choice. It's tough to use regular gas with 9.5, but possible with a custom cam and matched parts. The 10:1 will require 92/93 octane, and a custom cam and tune make the difference between okay and great gains.

 

[ssp.interceptor]

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[rjcooperss396]

Nice work on the heads rj! Are you going to have them flowed? Porting heads is a daunting task for most people and time consuming. But Hey, if you can do it, why not? Are those GT40 or GT40Ps? You gotta know what your doing with the P's to get get the flow right. I figure about 10-15hp tops in the mid-top range with good mild port work.

Going from 9:1 to 10:1 compression on our motors will only net about 7hp. Raising it a 10th of a point with a thinner gasket won't make any noticeable difference, but then again, every little bit helps!

Thanks. I don't remember if they are GT40 or P. I had them checked by someone who does porting and he said that I left a lot on the table but for what my plans were they would work well.

An increase in compression going from 9:1 to 10:1 would yield about a 5% increase or about 15 lb/ft torque. As for the tenth increase on my engine, my engine only had 8.59:1 as calculated with the factory pistons, combustion chamber cc, head gasket thickness, etc. I'm not expecting it to be a huge increase but I wanted to use as much compression as possible using the stock cam and still being able to run it on 87.

If a rebuild for the engine is part of the plan, raise the compression ratio. You can gain a good chunk of power and fuel mileage by going up to 9.5:1 or 10:1, depending on your fuel choice. It's tough to use regular gas with 9.5, but possible with a custom cam and matched parts. The 10:1 will require 92/93 octane, and a custom cam and tune make the difference between okay and great gains.

Have you ever built an engine? You don’t need a custom cam to make a great running engine. My Cobra puts down 471rwhp on an E303 cam with box stock AFR 165 heads and 9:1 compression (with 10psi of boost) and has pulled a best of 28 mpg.

 

[ssp.interceptor]

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[ssp.interceptor]

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[ssp.interceptor]

But then again, like you said about me in one of my first posts...

Ignore that crap from the new guy in post #45. Those are all myths, and I don't want to know where he heard it.

...I'm just a new guy with a head full of myth's and don't know what the hell I'm talking about.

 

[CDW6212R]

Damn dumbasses, those who never build engines should not give advice. Go read a few dozen more magazine articles and come back and regurgitate that garbage.

I've built more engines than both of you have, and I've learned from experts, not magazines.

The compression is far more important than 5 or 15hp, try 50-75hp in a properly built engine. Any 347 can make 400rwhp with no boost and just the easily obtained heads/intake/cam outlined in many existing examples of real cars on SBFtech. There your BS isn't allowed to fly.

To the OP, if you accept the status qua of myths presented by these two and all of the magazines, you will end up with a dog of an engine, or else an anemic motor due to wasted money.

I'm unsubscribed from this thread, feel free to continue spreading your ignorance.

 

[ssp.interceptor]

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[TBMounty50]

Wow, that sure derailed! I'm fine with it though, CDW almost always shows up with his soapbox when I start a thread.

Anyway, nice port work. I will be doing my own as well. I ported a 2.3 turbo head and got excellent results in my TurboCoupe. Not the previously mentioned low RPM dog with the T3\T4. That was a stock engine. I've had 3 of those. Yeah, I was hooked on them for a while.

I'm not planning on going wild either, just clean up the bowls, smooth the ports and try to match the intake to them. I enjoy doing it and it's not expensive so anyone who wants to tell me I'm wasting my time and I should buy aluminum heads cause they'll make more power, don't bother. (not a dig at you ssp, you didn't know I was doing it in house)

As far as the gas goes, 92-93 octane at every station, and thats what goes in my tank every time. I know I don't need it with my current setup but with low restiction exhaust and intake with factory tuning I thought I'd play it safe. I really make my truck work hard sometimes. Thats alot of the reason I'm focusing on generating that low end grunt for this next engine.

Back to the cams, I've already got a guy who will possibly trade a set of unused roller rockers for my B cam! I know, used B cam<new roller rockers. ? Apparently this guy is pretty loaded and doesn't see the lopsided values.

 

[rjcooperss396]

Damn dumbasses, those who never build engines should not give advice. Go read a few dozen more magazine articles and come back and regurgitate that garbage.

I've built more engines than both of you have, and I've learned from experts, not magazines.

The compression is far more important than 5 or 15hp, try 50-75hp in a properly built engine. Any 347 can make 400rwhp with no boost and just the easily obtained heads/intake/cam outlined in many existing examples of real cars on SBFtech. There your BS isn't allowed to fly.

To the OP, if you accept the status qua of myths presented by these two and all of the magazines, you will end up with a dog of an engine, or else an anemic motor due to wasted money.

I'm unsubscribed from this thread, feel free to continue spreading your ignorance.

Go ahead and try to build a N/A 347 that makes the same kind of power my Cobra makes to the wheels and passes CA emissions. Let me know when you have it done and I'll get it into 5.0 Mustang & Super Fords magazine for you. My buddies own GTR High Performance out here in Rancho Cucamonga and they write tech articles for them all the time. My Cobra was also featured in it which I've built everything on including the engine.

Here's a video of my crappy E303 cam'd '94 Cobra chasing down a GT500 on a little road course. Oh and since you think every performance engine needs to spin 7500+ my Cobra redlines at 6000 and the Chevelle redlines at 6500.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoTcx6PhzAI

And here's one of my doggish OTS cam'd '69 Chevelle with the self built 454.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dQpSSIW5WE

 

[ssp.interceptor]

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[rjcooperss396]

Wow, that sure derailed! I'm fine with it though, CDW almost always shows up with his soapbox when I start a thread.

Anyway, nice port work. I will be doing my own as well. I ported a 2.3 turbo head and got excellent results in my TurboCoupe. Not the previously mentioned low RPM dog with the T3\T4. That was a stock engine. I've had 3 of those. Yeah, I was hooked on them for a while.

I'm not planning on going wild either, just clean up the bowls, smooth the ports and try to match the intake to them. I enjoy doing it and it's not expensive so anyone who wants to tell me I'm wasting my time and I should buy aluminum heads cause they'll make more power, don't bother. (not a dig at you ssp, you didn't know I was doing it in house)

As far as the gas goes, 92-93 octane at every station, and thats what goes in my tank every time. I know I don't need it with my current setup but with low restiction exhaust and intake with factory tuning I thought I'd play it safe. I really make my truck work hard sometimes. Thats alot of the reason I'm focusing on generating that low end grunt for this next engine.

Back to the cams, I've already got a guy who will possibly trade a set of unused roller rockers for my B cam! I know, used B cam<new roller rockers. ? Apparently this guy is pretty loaded and doesn't see the lopsided values.

Stick with the stock cam and you'll be happy. The B cam is definitely not the right choice. It will make more torque but it will be at a higher rpm and take to advantage of it you'll need to regear to 4.56's. My buddy ran a B303 in his 1450 race truck using a stock '88 H.O. 302 with mildly ported E7TE heads (a little less than what I did to mine), a Performer RPM intake and a 650 Holley. It put down 199 rwhp with 33 inch tires, a 2000 stall and I don't remember what gears he ran. It ran decent but in the sand washes he would have to drop it down into 2nd gear and keep the rpms up near redline.

 

[ssp.interceptor]

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[rjcooperss396]

beeeaaast!!!!!

the Chevelle link isn't working though...

10.010 Run

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dQpSSIW5WE

10.086 Run. The bike that runs before me is my buddy on his stock ZX14.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQbEbYHbutg