Xfer case fluid

[F14CRAZY]

This is what I always figured...

Take a transfer case, power steering system, manual transmission, and drive axles. They do wear. All of these things listed above have gears of some sort. These gears working on each other for X amount of time wears them down. Wear is taking metal off metal. The little bits (varying in size) are flying around. A lot of it is picked up by magnets, but otherwise, they just keep flying around. While flying around, they get between the gears. Instead of metal on oil, it's metal to metal, causing more wear. The rate of wear will exponentially increase until something blows up OR the oil is changed. When it's changed, all this grit goes away.

Then you mix in water from condensation. A small amount of water is going to get in any lubricated system, and don't let anyone tell you any different. Water and metal don't go together well. This rust will form in places like the top of the component housing. Then that can fall back into the oil and gears below causing more heck.

I have seen this all happen. When I bought my XL in Pennsylvania to drive back to Michigan, I drove it less than a mile to the nearest Iffy Lube to have most all fluids changed in it. I had the guy that dumped the transmission fluid (manual) wipe his glove on my finger and I closely inspected it. Sure enough, the oil contained metal grit. It's obvious to see. Do you expect this oil to effectively lubricate the transmission when it's operating at 70 mph? Is it going to keep the gears reasonably cool and keep the wear rate low, relating to the exponential theory above? I hope as heck not. This goes for transfer cases and axles. When you have it pumped, ask them for a finger sample and hold it to the light.

Power steering is a bit different. You can't exactly change it, but what I've done is initially suck out the resevoir with a turkey baster and refil it with the proper fluid (for my Ex, it's type F ATF). Then go drive it for a day, and repeat this a few times for a few days. It'll turn clean. Then I suck it out and replace the resevoir contents at about every oil change.

Now, I cannot say for automatic transmissions. I don't think I am qualified. But this thread did start out with transfer cases. I assure you that there are no detrimental effects of changing the oil in power steering systems, manual transmissions, transfer cases, and axles, if done properly.

 

[F14CRAZY]

We've has experiences with restoring antique farm tractors and equipment too. With old gear transmissions, we'd often pull the drain plug, and nothing would come out. We'd then fear that there was no oil, but then it starts coming out. Black, gritty, and thick. In other cases, we'd get over a gallon of water, and then crappy oil. I believe I have a video clip of this happening if you'd like to see it.

This is an extreme situation since these tractors are 50 some years old, but the theory is the same.

 

[nascar_intimid]

those transmissions take a LUBE OIL not a fluid...totally different...and the other thread is if you had metal grit BIG ENOUGH to see with your naked eye then you've got bigger problems and changing your fluid won't get rid of it I would say you have a part failure and is just a matter of time before total failure....take a closer look without the pan on... maybe take a look inside/ontop of your component housing, good luck from the heart.

 

[F14CRAZY]

The Mazda M5OD uses Mercon.

After tons of full throttle take offs, cruising at [high freeway speeds], towing heavy stuff, and moving 800 some pounds of cement a few times in the past year, my transmission or axles haven't blown up. It gets at least 50 miles every day monday-friday. Truck has over 150,000 miles and to my knowledge neither the axle or transmission has been rebuilt or replaced.

I am confident that ridding components of grit greatly increases their life.

 

[nascar_intimid]

Xfer

I do agree exponentially....however we are not talking about the abuse your mazda gets we were initially talking about xfer cases which get very little abuse, maybe rock climbing at worst and not very often either. This thread then lead into the fact that fluids never wear out...THEY DON'T !! if your fluid is dirty it is from part wear as you have a sealed unit. thus the filter cleans it. I have never ever said not to change your fluid I just say it is not necessary as it doesn't break down like oil. Fluid retains all properties on the molecular scale and does its job just as well on the last day as it did on the first day NO BULL

 

[nascar_intimid]

my '94 ex has 242 000 miles on it and I have never changed the fluid once and it shifts and pulls and performs like the day I got it...honest I have no axe to grind here!!!

 

[F14CRAZY]

Sorry for misunderstanding.

I do agree that oil does NOT by itself break down. It's 80 million years old at any rate. It won't dry out or anything. It doesn't wear out.

My point though is that the stuff IN the oil is why it needs to be changed.

 

[nascar_intimid]

Yes F14CRAZY that is the correct reason to change your fluid. IF...IF you have lots of $hit in your fluid and only "IF" in most cases 98% of fluids that are changed don't need to be changed. Forgive me but it is a everybody is on the "change the fluid" bandwagon trying to do the right thing but not knowing all the facts. Remember us in the 70's we never heard of changing the tranny fluid in our passenger vehicles and we never had any problems with it...and fluids were'nt as good as they are today either. I still maintain the fact it isn't necessary to change your fluid....well I have 242 000 miles on mine to prove it...and it's fine. I smell my fluid regularly and if it doesn't smell burnt then everything is A-o.k. smell is the only way to check if your fluid is good or not. I know scores of people that have changed their fluid and a couple thousand miles later their tranny has worn out anyway...they are built to wear out that's how companies make their money.changing your fluid won't save your tranny KEEPING IT COOL will...can't stress that enough!!! heat kills your tranny (BIGTIME) put a couple inline coolers in you'll see..I've got three in line coolers on mine and 242 000 miles to prove it works.

 

[blueox]

power steering fluid,brake fluid, plow cylinder fluid,xsfer case fluid,tranny fluid.....will never wear out in a million years!!! hydraulic fluid is CLEAR when after being refined and the colors you see after that are from additives such as red in tranny fluid from scrubbing agents, power steering fluid and brake fluids are brownish because they lack the scrubbing agents but most are clear. Don't ever take one persons word on these matters ask around ( ask a dealer and they will sell ice to an eskimo)!! talk to the older mechanics who know what's what and have tons of experience.

Brake fluid is hygroscopic and draws water into itself. It can go bad/degrade just sitting open on a shelf.

Does anyone know what the ATRA says are common failures for transmissions?

 

[nascar_intimid]

the heat a transmission generates evaporates any chance of water it accumulates and the most common failure of an auto tranny...well there are three actually one being the wrong fluid or oxidized (from sitting idle) and the other is a faulty solonoid, valve body or controller and last but certainly not least heat,heat,heat 200 degrees and over (toast)

 

[blueox]

Isn't the heat breaking down the fluid, excuse me, additives in the fluid that lubricate the tranny. Isn't that essentially breaking down the tranny fluid?

Aren't you assuming that everyone drives far enough that the water is continually burned off. It's not a concern if I live in a cold climate and continually drive short distances? I know water/condensation can be rough on a motor if you aren't getting it up to temp.

 

[smiley1]

You need to remember that the trans is a closed system (unlike an engine). There is only so much moisture in the limited amount of air present in the trans. This is very little. No matter how cold it gets outside, only the amout of vapor already present can condensate. This is not significant.

 

[blueox]

No. It's not a closed system.

 

[smiley1]

No. It's not a closed system.

Please elaborate.

 

[nascar_intimid]

Isn't the heat breaking down the fluid, excuse me, additives in the fluid that lubricate the tranny. Isn't that essentially breaking down the tranny fluid?
heat doesn't break down the fluid but rather the seals on the valves in the tranny cannot stand up tp the high temparatures as they are made of light compounds and they will fail at 200 degrees or there abouts...

Aren't you assuming that everyone drives far enough that the water is continually burned off. It's not a concern if I live in a cold climate and continually drive short distances? I know water/condensation can be rough on a motor if you aren't getting it up to temp.

you are assuming that there is more than 1 ounce of water in the tranny after it cools down? I doubt it, I would say less than a quarter of an ounce at most, and yes that will evaporate. If it doesn't that means the tranny didn't get hot which means there is no grounds for any accumulation from condensing. which means no addition to the existing water. Yes it can be rough on a motor but that is a different topic...

 

[nascar_intimid]

heat doesn't break down the fluid but rather the seals on the valves in the tranny cannot stand up to the high temparatures as they are made of light compounds and they will fail at 200 degrees or there abouts thus creating the chain reaction and killing your tranny

 

[blueox]

Please elaborate.

Why vent the transmission if it's a closed system? You would force fluid out past the seals if it was completely sealed from expansion and contraction due to heating and cooling.

 

[nascar_intimid]

why does everybody always look to the fluid as the problem in a failing tranny 9 out of 10 dead trannys are from part failures such as valve seals or solonoid springs(weak springs) there is a multitude of things that aren't even close to fluid problems.

 

[nascar_intimid]

Why vent the transmission if it's a closed system? You would force fluid out past the seals if it was completely sealed from expansion and contraction due to heating and cooling.

either I'm tired or that doesn't make sense...forgive me

 

[blueox]

I am in no way arguing that other factors cause transmission failures. But I believe that one of the largest causes of the transmission failing would be from heat and contamination.......both directly affecting the fluid in the transmission.