5th gen Explorer issues stopping on ice

[Preacherman]

I’m sure this is probably covered elsewhere but I didn’t see my exact issue so here goes. We just got our 2013 Explorer a few weeks back. I’m completely new to the intelligent 4wd system. We live on a steep curvey drive. We have had a fair amount of light snows that turn to ice quickly overnight once it’s been driven on. I’m having trouble going down the drive. The car (especially the rear end) want to slide way to much. I’ve tried normal and snow modes and various ways of braking...no change. I have a 2006 f350 4wd that has no issues on the same drive. Maybe there’s something I could do differently??

 

[blwnsmoke]

Change the tires.. 4wd and/or awd isnt going to do much on ice, especially down hill. Tires are pretty much all you can do to attempt to even grip on ice.

4wd/awd helps in starting off from a dead stop and helping to power out of slippery conditions, does nothing for down hills when you are not applying power (acceleration).

 

[peterk9]

As blwnsmoke posted, put dedicated Winter tires on it for a start. I always do a changeover every year around the end of October and then again in April. Even then, it isn't a guaranty it will solve this issue if it is ice. You could try Sand mode and see if that helps. I believe Sand mode is as close to full 4WD as you can get. Just don't use it for regular driving in snow. Are you backing down the driveway?

Peter

 

[Preacherman]

You know I thought about trying a set of tires but the Explorer has the same thing my truck does and it has no issue. I thought about ordering some studded tires but if it’s not gonna make much difference I’d rather just buy my wife a truck to drive till spring.
I haven’t been backing down the drive...it’s over 1/2 mile. I will definitely try sand mode...funny you should mention that...I have a friend who was just telling me about trading their Explorer in for another one because their 4wd only functioned correctly in sand mode and the dealer couldn’t figure it out.
I was also told to try adding some weight to the rear by a dealer tech. Maybe worth a try...
I’m just at a loss as to why my truck has no issues...the Excursion had no issues but the Explorer is plumb scary. I’m really hoping it’s either a mechanical issue I can correct or tires! Thanks for all the suggestions!!

 

[Preacherman]

Change the tires.. 4wd and/or awd isnt going to do much on ice, especially down hill. Tires are pretty much all you can do to attempt to even grip on ice.

4wd/awd helps in starting off from a dead stop and helping to power out of slippery conditions, does nothing for down hills when you are not applying power (acceleration).

Quick question...when you say “ awd does nothing for down hills”...are you saying that the rear tires on my Explorer will not engage with the driveline when I’m heading down hill even if they are slipping? I ask that because I been wondering if that’s the case all day long. If those rear tires are just free wheeling then of course they will lock up and slide when I hit the brakes. If that’s the way this system works then nothing I do will ever make it perform like a standard 4wd.

 

[thefranchise713]

I'm not quite sure what you're looking for, mechanically speaking.

If you're looking for a locking differential situation, yeah, this car will never be able to do that. For your situation, downhill--where braking is important, not torque for momentum--this Explorer is no more useful than a FWD one.

I still might be missing something here, if so, apologies, I wish I had some good advice here. Thinking of the physics I can't think of how the truck would do better other than having a RWD bias that might have a locking differential and more weight rear to the vehicle.

 

[Preacherman]

I'm not quite sure what you're looking for, mechanically speaking.

If you're looking for a locking differential situation, yeah, this car will never be able to do that. For your situation, downhill--where braking is important, not torque for momentum--this Explorer is no more useful than a FWD one.

I still might be missing something here, if so, apologies, I wish I had some good advice here. Thinking of the physics I can't think of how the truck would do better other than having a RWD bias that might have a locking differential and more weight rear to the vehicle.

Sorry, I should be more clear. When I put my truck in 4wd...all 4 wheels pull or hold back in together. My wife had an Excursion before this Explorer and it worked the same as my truck. Whether pulling or coasting or holding back going down hill, all 4 wheels are locked together. Therefore (in my 6 speed manual truck or her previous automatic excursion), if I came off the hill in 4wd drive...I use 4wd and a low gear...braking lightly as needed...no issues. No one wheel or wheels could slip independent of any other wheel or wheel (atleast not dramatically). That being said...I left my house this morning in the truck setup as mentioned above...no issues. Didn’t slip or slide one time. 10 minutes later, my phone rings and my wife is telling me the car slid and about went over an embankment. I drive back home...get the Explorer out of the ditch and start down the rest of the grade slipping and sliding the whole way, all the while the abs is going nuts. Once her car is in the clear, I walked back up and backed my truck down the same grade...no issues. My thoughts/questions are these...if the Explorer isn’t locking the front and rear axles together in some form or fashion when it senses slip except when engine torque is applied (as in descending a slick hill) ...that would explain all the slipping and sliding. 2ndly, if this is the circumstance I’m experiencing, is there a mechanical issue? 3rdly, if this is in fact the way the intelligent awd works and no mechanical repairs will change it...how do others function through the colder months with these Explorers? Just to be clear...it goes perfect as long as there’s a demand to have some engine input...the problem isn’t getting up the drive, it’s getting back down again. If I had slid or had trouble in my truck this morning I wouldn’t even question it. Just to verify that my truck is nothing special, I borrowed a friends 2003 f250 4wd around lunch time today and tried it out down the drive...again, no issues. I hope I’m not being a pain...just looking for information so I can figure out this issue.

 

[thefranchise713]

Nope, not being a pain at all--I appreciate you being patient when I asked for clarification--I was hoping not to come off unhelpful, and it's hard to read the inflection over the Internet...

I don't think the Explorer is going to provide what you're expecting. From my very limited understanding--the intelligent 4WD system really only dispatches torque to the back as needed, so the only thing that will keep it from free wheeling is the brake pads. And if the wheels are slipping at different rates, the ABS will start chattering. If the 4WD scenario, I'm thinking there's a rear locking differential that's helping you. How that all plays into the front axle beyond a rear locker is beyond my knowledge--if there's a mechanical locking split that's locking the axles together for even torque distribution, again, that's something this Explorer can't replicate.

I've never--and I mean never--had a problem with this car in Buffalo. Granted, I run snow tires, but even then the mechanicals of this car haven't impeded my travels. The only enhancement I can recommend are snow tires, although that seems a little much in North Carolina.

 

[KayGee]

There's a huge difference between traditional full time 4wd and what passes for most part time or on demand awd/4wd on most car based cuv/suv.

If one prefers traditional full time 4wd, I don't believe the explorer will provide that, unless the atc/rdu fails and locks the rear diff. Not sure if there is a way to fool the system into locking the atc/rdu or if it would cause any long term harm from doing so.

I'm not sure how the tms works to mimic traditional 4wd or if it can even do that 100%.

There is definitely a difference when driving on slippery surfaces or a hill between fwd, rwd, and traditional 4wd, especially if you can drop the trans into a lower gear and use engine braking. Try it sometime and see how different vehicles react in that situation. Regardless, biggest difference will be had by getting the tires with the most traction for the surface you will be driving on.

 

[Ironworker40]

Have you tried using the downhill descent mode? I have never used it on snow or ice but I have used it on dirt/gravel and it worked great. What brand and model tires do you have and how many miles are on them? How much tread is left above the wear bars (anything below the wear bars is usless)?

 

[JAPeterson]

Also trying to compare a 6 speed manual that you have in your truck or any vehicle is very hard to do with the 6 speed automatic in the Explorer. I love the automatic but would prefer a manual, but that is just me.

 

[Preacherman]

The tires are 75% tread Michelin LTX m/s...same as my truck. If a set of tires will fix %90...even 75% of the problem I don’t care at all to order a set tonight! Just want my wife and family to feel safe like they did in the Excursion. I considered chains with ice bars but then she would have to install and remove them each day. Again...the truck and previous Excursion run these exact same tires.

 

[Preacherman]

Have you tried using the downhill descent mode? I have never used it on snow or ice but I have used it on dirt/gravel and it worked great. What brand and model tires do you have and how many miles are on them? How much tread is left above the wear bars (anything below the wear bars is usless)?

I have not tried the hill descent on ice yet but several have recommended I give it a shot. Weather man says we could be looking at 18+ inches between now and Monday evening so I will have the opportunity!

 

[Preacherman]

Most of the ice melted today so I didn’t get much opportunity to try anything different but maybe these photos will help describe my situation. It’s steep but nothing I would worry about normally.

 

[Ironworker40]

I personal like Michelin Tires but I don't know what tread pattern you have there are several LTX tires available. You should Try the downhill decent and report back.
I have Blizzac snows and they are great compared to the OE handcook tires.
I have had Cooper Winter Master both studded and non studded on a pick ups in the past and I liked them better but this is my first explorer and the lower weight and the on demand all wheel drive makes it completely different in the snow than a p/u.
IT IS NEVER going to drive like that 1 ton you have. I sold my 94 diesel 1 ton and bought this Explorer and I know exactly how different it feels. I think snow tires will help, studded will help more but can you justify the cost I don't know how much snow and ice you get there. If you were close to me I would let you try mine Im not even putting them on this year because I'm getting a small surgery jan 15 and them I'm going to Florida to recuperate for 4 weeks.

 

[peterk9]

Although I firmly believe in using Winter tires, I'm beginning to doubt that they would make much of a difference with your issue since you're on ice. It appears that you are looking for the 4 wheels to do 'self braking' as the Explorer moves down the driveway. This is something the vehicle doesn't do as far as I know. Using Hill Descent is an intriguing idea. Also, you could try manual mode to allow 'engine braking' to see if that helps.

Peter

 

[CDW6212R]

Going down hill has almost nothing to do with the drive type. The tires and brakes, ABS, and vehicle weight are the biggest factors. The ABS can have a ton to do with stopping on slick surfaces, good, and bad. I would suspect the ABS system on that truck is too sensitive, and/or different front to back then it should be. The bigger heavier truck is obviously better sorted out, the ABS that is.

The affect of any 4WD system for stopping should not be large, it's like engine braking, it may be helpful. But tires and ABS balance should be the key factors you can do something about(if the ABS can be). I understand about the ABS issues, I have them myself on wet leaves, and gravel on pavement, stopping.

Tires are not the same in identical models, in different sizes. Tires are the easiest thing to do something about. I;d change them if they are not nearly new, or would if I knew they were the problem.

 

[Mbrooks420]

Are the tires old? As tires age they get harder, and much more worthless on ice. If you deal with ice a lot, get studded tires. It’ll be the best traction you can get.

If your tires are locking up, you have an ABS problem. The AWD isn’t the issue.

I vote for some weight in the back and studs. Studs will easily outdo any Michelin all terrain.

 

[Preacherman]

All very good points...what are the best tires I can buy for my circumstance on the Explorer in 245/60/18s. I don’t care what they cost if My wife can make it to the highway safely. Should be able to try the hill descent tomorrow...we have about a foot of snow now and still coming so I’ll plow out tonight or in the morning when it stops.
Keep in mind, when I go down in the truck I rarely use the brakes...just 4wd and a low gear...same as I did in the Excursion. I don’t really mind how I get down in the Explorer...if I need to brake instead of gearing down then so be it...as long as we get down safely. It’s possible I guess that the abs could be adjusted to better suit coming off my ice covered hill...may be worth asking the dealer.

 

[Preacherman]

Are the tires old? As tires age they get harder, and much more worthless on ice. If you deal with ice a lot, get studded tires. It’ll be the best traction you can get.

If your tires are locking up, you have an ABS problem. The AWD isn’t the issue.

I vote for some weight in the back and studs. Studs will easily outdo any Michelin all terrain.

You know...Tire age is a great point...I’ll check the date codes! I’m not sure they are “locking up”...at least not completely...I can hear/feel the abs system working...it just slides all over the place in the rear end.
I was looking at some studded tires on eBay earlier...may give that a shot if the hill descent mode doesn’t help.