Dismiss Notice



Register Today It's free! This box will disappear once registered!

2003 4.0L - Need Engine Technician !!

Discussion in 'Stock 2002 - 2005 Explorers' started by RGMK6, April 13, 2015.

^^Searches ExplorerForum.com^^
  1. RGMK6

    RGMK6 New Member

    Joined:
    April 13, 2015
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    City, State:
    Oswego, New York
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    2003 Mercury Mountaineer
    I have a 2003 Mercury Mountaineer 4.0L SOHC with the letter "K" in the VIN. On here to try and get some information on the timing and adjustments on the engine itself. I had recently rebuilt a the 4.0 in my truck because it broke a timing chain and all the guides, hardware and more. After full reassembly I'm getting a kind of metal on metal rattle noise that does not sound like improperly installed guides.. but has a more unique noise to it. I used all of the specialty tools and for some reason still fear the timing is slightly off.

    I am confused because I was told that even if slightly off it'll run, which it does, but it doesnt run well and the noise scares me too much to drive it or attempt letting it run too long. I keep telling myself there is NO WAY the timing is that far off where I could be having interference issues. I took video clips and I've taken note of everything but I actually need some guidance here. Ford themselves told me they have no interest in touching the vehicle when I called them over the phone. ha ha. Can't blame them for not wanting to take on someone else's headache, but if it were a simple issue I figured they'd be able to diagnose better than anyone else??? Maybe not??

    Please let me know about any and all help or advice you have for me from this point out.

    Post links if you have them! Thanks!

    Ryan
     
  2. Support EF

    Join the Elite Explorers for $20

    Explorer Forum has probably saved you that much already, and will continue to save you money as you learn how to diagnose fix problems yourself and learn which modifications work without having to experiment on your own. Elite Explorer members see practically no ads, can add their own profile photo, upload photo attachments in all forums, and Media Gallery, create more private Conversations, and more. Join Today. Your support is greatly appreciated.


  3. Tech By Trade

    Tech By Trade Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2012
    Messages:
    2,528
    Likes Received:
    153
    Trophy Points:
    83
    City, State:
    Your mom's house
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    07 Sport Trac
    Did you get the torque converter lined up properly before you put the engine back in?
     
  4. 2000StreetRod

    2000StreetRod Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

    Joined:
    May 26, 2009
    Messages:
    10,561
    Likes Received:
    199
    Trophy Points:
    93
    City, State:
    Greenville, SC
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    00 Sport FI, 03 Ltd V8
    valve damage?

    If a timing chain actually broke it is probable there was valve damage.
    3Dings.jpg
    Did you check the valves and replace as required?

    If you PM me your email address I'll send you a copy of the engine assembly instructions. Reviewing them may identify something you did incorrectly.

    After an engine disassembly and reassembly it is common to have noisy cam followers due to excess clearance. It may require driving for about 20 minutes at engine midrange for the hydraulic pressure to build up in the hydraulic lash adjusters.
     
  5. RGMK6

    RGMK6 New Member

    Joined:
    April 13, 2015
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    City, State:
    Oswego, New York
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    2003 Mercury Mountaineer
    THANK YOU so much for the reply. I did have 2 bent valves that BARELY kissed the top of the piston, like even LESS than the photo you had posted. They were replaced and everything else was inspected. I have my re-assembly instructions from ALL-DATA and it went together smooth and well. Used the specialty tools, aligned TDC and the cams, truck fires right off, but the engine has an apparent vibration within the mounts and sounds a little off when put under load (Putting it in drive or reverse). Torque converter lighted up great and there was no forcing or problems of mating or anything between the engine and transmission.

    I did not make sure the same bolts went in the same holes of the flywheel, but it went in and torqued down with no problems.

     
  6. RGMK6

    RGMK6 New Member

    Joined:
    April 13, 2015
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    City, State:
    Oswego, New York
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    2003 Mercury Mountaineer
    Anyone else have any input for me? Bump Bump
     
  7. BobRob

    BobRob Member

    Joined:
    March 3, 2015
    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    City, State:
    Loudon NH
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    2002 Explorer
    Can you narrow down where the noise is coming from?
     
  8. RGMK6

    RGMK6 New Member

    Joined:
    April 13, 2015
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    City, State:
    Oswego, New York
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    2003 Mercury Mountaineer
    Literally sounds like dead center of the motor.
     
  9. 2000StreetRod

    2000StreetRod Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

    Joined:
    May 26, 2009
    Messages:
    10,561
    Likes Received:
    199
    Trophy Points:
    93
    City, State:
    Greenville, SC
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    00 Sport FI, 03 Ltd V8
    What's been replaced?

    You posted that you replaced a couple bent valves and some timing components.

    Did you install a complete timing kit that includes the front and rear cassettes (guides, chains & sprockets), front and rear hydraulic/spring tensioners, primary (crankshaft to jackshaft) chain tensioner and guide, balance shaft chain tensioner and guide? Did you pull the release pin out of the primary chain tensioner?

    Were the timing components OEM or aftermarket? Did you manually test the hydraulic/spring tensioner pistons for normal movement in the bores before installation?

    Did you get all of the pieces out of the pan and the oil pump pickup tube screen?

    Have you checked the compression of the cylinders?

    Have you tried removing the serpentine belt and running the engine briefly to see if the noise persists?

    Have you inspected the harmonic balancer for damage?
     
  10. RGMK6

    RGMK6 New Member

    Joined:
    April 13, 2015
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    City, State:
    Oswego, New York
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    2003 Mercury Mountaineer
    I installed a complete aftermarket timing kit. new guides and tensioners, gears, and even hardware. Hardware was all OEM from ford, valves were OEM from ford, kit was not. I released the pin on both the balance shaft tensioner and the main chain to jack-shaft tensioners as well.
    I completely cleaned the inside of the engine out and left no residue or parts left behind internally in the engine. The harmonic balancer seems to be healthy..

    the compression was not tested, and the serpentine belt was not removed to check for noises but it honestly sounds like a 350 Chevy with horribly adjusted rocker arms.

    It runs rough too... I havent been driving it because of the noise but I dont know if it is possbile to adjust the timing with the engine in the truck.


    Also! Another concern of mine is that I did use the timing kit, but the cams were moved several times while being off the engine and I do not know if they were put back at true TDC. I listened to the instructions off ALL DATA and the other guys on the forums but there is no specific mark or pin to line up so I do worry that it is off by a few degrees. Is it possible to adjust timing without pulling the engine again??

    Thank you for all of your help so far. I'll check the timing and such now.

     
  11. 2000StreetRod

    2000StreetRod Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

    Joined:
    May 26, 2009
    Messages:
    10,561
    Likes Received:
    199
    Trophy Points:
    93
    City, State:
    Greenville, SC
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    00 Sport FI, 03 Ltd V8
    camshafts & crank held in position

    The OTC 6488 timing tool kit contains a tool to hold the crankshaft at TDC.
    CrankshaftHolder.jpg

    The kit also contains two tools to hold one camshaft in the correct position.
    CamshaftHolder.jpg
    cam1.jpg

    If the tools are correctly installed the camshaft cannot be out of time relative to the crankshaft. There is only one set of camshaft holders and sprocket holders in the kit so only one camshaft can be timed with the tool kit. Then the camshaft tools are moved from one camshaft (usually the passenger side) to the other (driver side) making sure to leave the crankshaft holder in place.

    The timing can be checked and the camshafts retimed with the engine in the vehicle and the valve covers removed. There's another special tool in the kit that fits between the firewall and the camshaft sprocket for tightening/loosening the sprocket retaining bolt. A different torque setting is used because it adds leverage.
    SocketExtension.jpg

    If the precision tensioner in the tool kit is not used then the camshaft timing can be a couple degrees off because the timing chain is not taught.
    PrecisionTensioner.jpg

    I suggest that you review the following thread: SOHC V6 Camshaft Timing and then check the timing. I advise against running the engine until you fully understand the timing process and make sure the timing is correct.
     
  12. Sedition

    Sedition Engine Repair Guy Elite Explorer

    Joined:
    January 12, 2012
    Messages:
    677
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    City, State:
    Geelong, Australia
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    98 Explorer XLT SOHC
    I have noticed on a lot of the aftermarket kits that the metal bracket of the Balance-shaft timing chain guide/tensioner will rub on the chain if it isn't bent out of the way.

    A balance shaft timing chain issue will give a dead-centre timing chain noise.
     
  13. Sedition

    Sedition Engine Repair Guy Elite Explorer

    Joined:
    January 12, 2012
    Messages:
    677
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    City, State:
    Geelong, Australia
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    98 Explorer XLT SOHC
    I don't think your timing is off because that won't cause any metal on metal noise while still being able to run.

    Besides if the timing is off so far that it will cause damage (over 30*) the engine won't be making enough compression to be able to run at all.
     
  14. RGMK6

    RGMK6 New Member

    Joined:
    April 13, 2015
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    City, State:
    Oswego, New York
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    2003 Mercury Mountaineer
    Thank you all VERY much for the input! I think the timing is just a little further off than "slightly" and is able to hold a pretty terrible idle because of this. I will let you all know what the results are as far as the timing. I'm putting it back on the lift tomorrow afternoon!

    I have the feeling that because the new aftermarket gears didn't "slide" or fit right onto the cam shaft and they had to be tapped on, that they did not adjust the way they should have when I had the tools on there, I'll reinspect this and post up about it asap. You were all a huge help and it is greatly appreciated.
     
  15. Tech By Trade

    Tech By Trade Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2012
    Messages:
    2,528
    Likes Received:
    153
    Trophy Points:
    83
    City, State:
    Your mom's house
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    07 Sport Trac
    any chance you got the cams 180 degrees out of phase?
     
  16. RGMK6

    RGMK6 New Member

    Joined:
    April 13, 2015
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    City, State:
    Oswego, New York
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    2003 Mercury Mountaineer
    I honestly dont know? I installed the tools the way they instructed. I dont think they could possibly be installed any other way since the way the tool rests is only in one correct position on the backside of the cam. But if it is possible maybe?? There really arent any good pictures out there to show what it should look like when timed correctly.
     
  17. 2000StreetRod

    2000StreetRod Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

    Joined:
    May 26, 2009
    Messages:
    10,561
    Likes Received:
    199
    Trophy Points:
    93
    City, State:
    Greenville, SC
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    00 Sport FI, 03 Ltd V8
    correct position

    When piston 1 is at TDC the camshaft slots should be below the axis of the camshaft and parallel to the head surface that mates with the valve cover.
    AllenL.jpg
    I timed my camshafts before purchasing a timing tool kit.
     
  18. Sedition

    Sedition Engine Repair Guy Elite Explorer

    Joined:
    January 12, 2012
    Messages:
    677
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    City, State:
    Geelong, Australia
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    98 Explorer XLT SOHC
    Pop the covers off all-ready give us a look!
     
  19. RGMK6

    RGMK6 New Member

    Joined:
    April 13, 2015
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    City, State:
    Oswego, New York
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    2003 Mercury Mountaineer
    ALRIGHT! THANK YOU SO MUCH. Big thank you to everyone that posted up in here. Here is the final fix notes...

    I climbed inside the engine compartment and took it all apart in the truck. The driver's side of the engine had the cam 180' out... and the passenger side was probably a good 15 degrees out itself. after retiming the engine and putting it all back together it started up and has been running flawlessly. I am thoroughly impressed by how well the engine is running. I could post up pictures of how destroyed it all was but I think you probably all have your own copies.

    This engine sheared 6 different bolts off internally when it blew apart. Amazed I got it running so well again. It was a shot in the dark.
     
  20. drdoom

    drdoom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    December 13, 2007
    Messages:
    4,134
    Likes Received:
    87
    Trophy Points:
    68
    City, State:
    VA
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    2005 Eddie Bauer 4.6L 4X4
    Good job and thanks for the update!
     






We Support Our Troops!