Yet another T-Cases to mount to the V8 Thread

EDIT 6/30/05: I have successfully installed a BW4406 from a Ford Expedition. Pictures of the install begin on page 8 of the thread.

Pages 1 - 7 are research for the swap.

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OK. I want to really nail this down. I would like to get 4low in my V8 Mountaineer, with 6bolt, 31spline 4R70W.

I DON'T NEED AN ATLAS!!

Since this is the same transmission pattern that is used in the fullsized trucks such as the Bronco and F150 a t-case should be able to be found that mates up. What t-cases were used?

The real problem will be fitting? I know the older F150s and Broncos used the BW1356, and the BW1345 in manual versions. Does anyone have the demensions? What about the newer 4406 T-case from the expedition?

As used behind the full size Bronco:
NP208, Part time, chain, 2.61:1, 80-86
BW1345, Part time, chain, 2.72:1, 80-88
BW1356, Part time, chain, 2.69:1, 87-96

As used behind the F150:
BW4406 (Electronic, Electronic w/control-trac clutch, Manual)
BW1356 (Electronic, Manual)
BW1345 (Manual)
NP208 (Manual)
NP205 (Manual)

What about other creative solutions?

I'm looking for cheap cost as well as simplicity. Wiring is no problem if the t-case is electric. Fabbing a shifter shouldn't be too hard. I don't want to go the route of putting in an expensive advanced adaptors conversion and using a 1354 or 4405 control trac. That's over 500 for the adapter, and at least 150 to get the tailshaft installed in the tranny. There has to be a better way!

I'm posting this for two reasons: 1) I realy want 4low. I don't need AWD. 2) My front driveshaft took a crap, transfer case is acting weird. Rather than replace, I'd like to replace that stupid CV joint and AWD t-case.

To make things more complicated, my 97 has the VSS in the t-case tailshaft

 

[section525]

I'll tell you this.. tmosko was able to squeeze a 4406 into his 5.0 Ranger. Stadx2 says it won't fit in his Explorer. And you need to get one from a 4.6L Expediton and not the 5.4L. That's as far as I got with the 4406.

 

[V8BoatBuilder]

4406 seems like a hot case, and something I should be able to land at a junkyard. I just need measurements to see if it will work, but what about the old-school manual ones?

 

[John_Rock]

I'm hoping a Dana 20 will fit.
But, I don't know. I've never seen one in person.
The EB used a C4/Dana 20 combo. I'm hoping the rear of the 4R70W is the same as a C4.
Dana 20's are gear driven and can be converted to twin stick.

After reading this some of this guys article, I think it works without any adapters. And Tera has a lowering kit of the Dana 20???
http://classicbroncos.com/4r70wtransmission2.shtml

 

[John_Rock]

Another EB with a 302/4r70w/Dana20
http://www.azbronco.org/mlink002.htm

And from what I've seen Dana 20's aren't expensive. But you want the later 70's model with the J shifter from what I've read.

Teraflex lower gear kit for the Bronco Dana20:
http://www.teraflx.com/index2.htm

 

[V8BoatBuilder]

That article is a great find, but after looking at photos I'd be worried about clearance with the crossmember. Something we'll need to find out. Tunnel clearance might be a problem, but could theoretically be solved by a body lift.

Edit... He used some sort of AA adapter between the T-case and the 4r70w

 

[V8BoatBuilder]

Interesting Links I've Found

I'm going to post all the links for different sites I've found on this topic:

Swapping a 1356 into a 79 bronco:
http://www.medicine.wisc.edu/~mrm/bronco/tc/

List of trucks, t-cases and years:
http://www.lightruck.com/transfercase_reman_FORD.asp

Tmsoko's V8 Ranger conversion pics:
http://groups.msn.com/MarlaTodd/ranger.msnw?Page=3

Pictures of BW1345:
http://www.used4x4parts.com/transfercases.html

There is quite a bit of room under there, biggesdt concern I have is the front output interfering with the torsion bar/transmission crossmember.

 

[John_Rock]

Originally posted by V8BoatBuilder
That article is a great find, but after looking at photos I'd be worried about clearance with the crossmember. Something we'll need to find out. Tunnel clearance might be a problem, but could theoretically be solved by a body lift.

Edit... He used some sort of AA adapter between the T-case and the 4r70w

Yep, I emailed the guy from Arizona. Here's his reply:

Yes, I am using an Advanced Adaptors '88 up AOD to Bronco D-20 adaptor.
Takes about another $10 in parts from the dealer for parts not in the
kit.
Try www.classicbroncos.com and look for the 4R70W article in the tech
section on the left side of the screen.

I still like the Dana 20 over the BW t-cases.

 

[V8BoatBuilder]

Re-Indexing

This may be a non-issue. However, in case the t-case needs to be re-indexed to clear the transmission/torsion bar crossmember, is it as simple as drilling new holes in the transmission tailshaft or drilling and tapping new holes in the t-case?

Seems like a no brainer here.

 

[Fusion213]

Well, i've done some research too.
You'll want a BW1356(if it'll fit) out of a bronco because they have a fixed yoke rather than a slip yoke on the t-case.
The D20 won't work unless you get a 28 spline output shaft installed in the 4r70w.
I've been trying to find a t-case in a fullsize to measure to see if it'll fit between the frame rails.

I'm not sure on the re-indexing the t-case.

Oh, another thing, I THINK an NP203(chain, full time) or NP205(gear drive part time) will fit but a custom crossmember has to be made since they're cast iron cases that weigh a lot compared to a lightweight aluminum/magnesium case. THe sucky thing about those two are that they have a not so good low range.

 

[410Fortune]

If the crossmember on the Ex is your biggest concern and you can't clock the T case to fit why not build/modify the crossmember and mount?

A simple crossmember is not a difficult fabrication when doing a conversion like this.

 

[V8BoatBuilder]

Originally posted by 410Fortune
If the crossmember on the Ex is your biggest concern and you can't clock the T case to fit why not build/modify the crossmember and mount?

A simple crossmember is not a difficult fabrication when doing a conversion like this.

I've thought about the crossmember, but it doesn't just support the transmission - the torsion bar adjuster mechanism is built in. The front driveshaft goes almost right above the driver's side torsion bar setup. It's tight in there.

 

[V8BoatBuilder]

Originally posted by Warform
Oh, another thing, I THINK an NP203(chain, full time) or NP205(gear drive part time) will fit but a custom crossmember has to be made since they're cast iron cases that weigh a lot compared to a lightweight aluminum/magnesium case. THe sucky thing about those two are that they have a not so good low range.

The NP 205 is one heck of a builltproof t-case. Gear driven, it could stand up to anything. The problem is they are large and heavy, and only a 1.96:1 low range. Better than nothing though

NP203 is basically a cast iron version of what we have now.

 

[V8BoatBuilder]

Originally posted by Warform
Well, i've done some research too.
You'll want a BW1356(if it'll fit) out of a bronco because they have a fixed yoke rather than a slip yoke on the t-case.

AWESOME FIND.

 

[NOTAJP]

Originally posted by V8BoatBuilder
I've thought about the crossmember, but it doesn't just support the transmission - the torsion bar adjuster mechanism is built in. The front axle goes almost right above the driver's side torsion bar setup.

Good excuse for a SAS.

 

[V8BoatBuilder]

Originally posted by NOTAJP
Good excuse for a SAS.

I was wondering how long before that was mentioned!!

http://groups.msn.com/MarlaTodd/ranger.msnw?Page=3
This link is an AMAZING set of pics posted by tmsoko when he tried to get an expedition 4406 electric t-case into his v8 ranger conversion. Seems to me like that huge case did fit in. I think the 1356 is smaller. However, I know he is now running the 4404 AWD t-case.

Bronco BW1356 Electric T-case, with fixed yoke driveshaft connections

BW1345 Manual T-case with fixed yokes, 80-86 F150

Expedition 4406 Electric vs Explorer 4404 AWD (Photo taken by tmsoko)

Too bad the scale and angle is different in the photos

 

[Fusion213]

All I need to know is if the BW1356 will fit or at least how wide it is.
I'll save up to get it and install it myself.
The NP203 does have an advantage over us, it has low.

 

[Fusion213]

Man, that 4406 is HUGE compared to the 4404

 

[V8BoatBuilder]

Originally posted by Warform
Man, that 4406 is HUGE compared to the 4404

I think that's an optical illution - compare the t-case to transmission bolt flange. That's identical in size and shape. Looks a lot smaller on the 4404 in that photo.

The 1356 should be easy to come by in junkyards. I'm going to hit one up with my camera and tape measure as soon as i have time.

QUESTION: How hard would it be to rig up an electronic control for an electric 1356 to move it from 2hi-4hi-4low? Wires are a lot easier to "fabricate" then a shifter linkage.

 

[Nitrous SSC]

subscribing......I'd love to do this for a future project...I have not having 4-low to crawl down hills