Auto locker failed, wheel fell off

[BonesDT]

So, Ive had my auto lunchbox locker in for about 2-3 weeks and starting last night and all this morning it was releasing/ratcheting when I was off the throttle even when I was going straight. Now I'm in a cab because my rear wheel fell off, fortunately right after I got off the highway. A lug was broken and the others stripped. I could only find 1 lug nut, not the locking one.

So any ideas what happened?? I don't know which came first and caused the other, faulty locker or faulty lugs.

One thing that concerned me during the locker install was that the spacing between the c-clip caps & diff pin were way under the instructions tolerances, but the center pin slid in easily. I just didn't know what u do when the spacing is off.

 

[Rick]

So, Ive had my auto lunchbox locker in for about 2-3 weeks and starting last night and all this morning it was releasing/ratcheting when I was off the throttle even when I was going straight. Now I'm in a cab because my rear wheel fell off, fortunately right after I got off the highway. A lug was broken and the others stripped. I could only find 1 lug nut, not the locking one.

So any ideas what happened?? I don't know which came first and caused the other, faulty locker or faulty lugs.

One thing that concerned me during the locker install was that the spacing between the c-clip caps & diff pin were way under the instructions tolerances, but the center pin slid in easily. I just didn't know what u do when the spacing is off.

Never heard of that one before... Did the wheel studs shear off? Did all the lug nuts come lose and left the wheel studs in the axle where they belong?

If there was a problem with the install it would have been a good idea to call the manufacturer, before proceeding. Doesn't sound like the locker had anything to do with the lug nuts coming off if that's what happened.

 

[DeRocha]

So, Ive had my auto lunchbox locker in for about 2-3 weeks and starting last night and all this morning it was releasing/ratcheting when I was off the throttle even when I was going straight. Now I'm in a cab because my rear wheel fell off, fortunately right after I got off the highway. A lug was broken and the others stripped. I could only find 1 lug nut, not the locking one.

So any ideas what happened?? I don't know which came first and caused the other, faulty locker or faulty lugs.

One thing that concerned me during the locker install was that the spacing between the c-clip caps & diff pin were way under the instructions tolerances, but the center pin slid in easily. I just didn't know what u do when the spacing is off.

It appears to be a simple problem with loose lug nuts. Did you forget to torque the lug nuts correctly? They should get 100ft/lbs and be rechecked after 25miles or so to ensure they aren't loose. If the lug nuts loosened up the tire wobble would cause the locker to engage/disengage alot more. A locker failure wouldn't cause a wheel to fall off with disc brakes. If the "C" clip where to fall out the axle would still be held in place by the brake pads.

A bigger problem is for the "C" clip to fall out or an axle break on 8.8 rears with drum brakes. As the image below shows the axle will walk right off the vehicle.

 

[gijoecam]

The locker issue and the rear wheel studs breaking are unrelated. Side to side 'movement' of the axle shafts is normal. So long as the axle can't push in far enough that the c-clip comes off, the axle isn't going anywhere.

As for the locking when it shouldn't be, can't help much there. I'd call the manufacturer for more advice there...

-Joe

 

[BonesDT]

If the lug nuts loosened up the tire wobble would cause the locker to engage/disengage alot more.

That was kind of what I was looking for. I just didn't feel any tire wobble before it fell off. I'm surprised a loose wheel would cause the locker to disengage.

Well, embarrassed, I might admit I didn't textbook-style torque the lug nuts. I hope someone didn't loosen them. All the studs are still in the axle, and the threads were somewhat intact on their outer ends (sheared at the base ends) and in the one lug nut I salvaged. One lug stud snapped off at the base, probably one of the last standing holding all the weight.

So what's the best site to order an axle? What kind of machine/tool do you need to replace just the lug studs?

Should I get a new wheel? The lug holes got chewed up a bit, is that a problem?

The only reason I didn't do anything about the spacing problem during the locker install is because, I'd figure the manufacturer would be super conservative and not give a reasonable solution to make it work (I mean, how would you correct that without doing something drastic to the axle?), and also, the independent install write-up for the Ford 8.8 axle that is listed on their site made no mention of checking those tolerances, so I didn't think it would be a huge deal. It's not like I had to hammer the center pin in, everything went together very smoothly.

 

[DeRocha]

...So what's the best site to order an axle? What kind of machine/tool do you need to replace just the lug studs?

Should I get a new wheel? The lug holes got chewed up a bit, is that a problem?

How does the end of the axle look? If its just broken studs you can just take a hammer and tap out the studs, pick up news ones at the autoparts store and put them back in.. easy easy easy.. the stud base is splined which mates up to splins in the axle. You match them up and then put a nut on the stud and slowly tighten it (which will seat the stud into the axle end). (Stud thread) If the axle end is messed up then you'll need to get a new shaft (it will be a pita as you will need to open the diff, drain the fluid, Remove the locker (good luck getting the passenger "C" clip out) and then the shaft, install the new shaft, locker, cover, fluid etc.. like I said pita) New they are $$$, but you can get one from a boneyard for $$, you could probably get and entire used 8.8 for $100. Just call and ask how much for an axle shaft vs the entire axle..

 

[BonesDT]

Yea, I just read "The Definitive Wheel Stud" thread. I just assumed you needed some hardcore press to get those studs out.

The write-up says to use a pneumatic gun and a special stud-installing nut. Is this necessary? The gun is the problem part, especially since I have to do this work in a home depot parking lot ... oh, wait, maybe access to tools isn't such a problem! The only problem I see is trying to torque the lug nut to pull the stud all the way on, without having the axle shaft spin.

(good luck getting the passenger "C" clip out)

Wow. After installing the locker, I was just thinking how elementary it is to pop open the diff, but I never thought about removing that C-clip until now.


You, know, I think a good part of the problem is that I have American Racing wheels, and I've always been worried about them not being supported by the hub. Like, I've read, The axle shaft hub should support the wheel and the lugs just hold the wheel on. The studs shouldn't be expected to bear the entire weight of the vehicle.

Apparantly, there are wheel-to-hub adapters. I'm still trying to locate if I can find these. My tires are too big for stock wheels anyway.

 

[JDraper]

...

One thing that concerned me during the locker install was that the spacing between the c-clip caps & diff pin were way under the instructions tolerances, but the center pin slid in easily. I just didn't know what u do when the spacing is off.

Usually that occurs when you have shim washers outside of your axle gears and they cause the tolerances to be too tight. Sometimes you need the shim washers, sometimes you don't. I've installed quite a few lunchbox lockers, and in some I've needed the washers to get the gap right, and some I've had to take them out.

 

[heathmo]

Like he said

If all you did was sheer off the lug studs then just replace those, been there and done that twice now. I had a '92 Corsica that I did that do, the lugs came loose, didn't pay enough attention to it and I sheered off a couple of the studs, had one lug nut and stud holding my wheel on as I limped to a place to park. Even with it like that, just had to replace the studs, and I broke a stud on my buddy's '95 Grand Prix when we were trying to do his brakes, the lug nut would not come off so we kept at it and finally it just snapped. It's not the most fun job to do, but it's definitely better than having to tear apart your rear diff to remove the axle shaft.

And the specs that they give you, it's best to follow those, if it's off it's most likely your thrust washers, which isn't too bad, yeah you'll have to take the locker back out, but just popping the thrust washers in there makes enough difference to make it work like it's supposed to. I know mine got a lot better after I went and put the thrust washers in. The ABS stopped kicking when I would slow down and it doesn't unwind quite as violently.

 

[BonesDT]

There goes 3 brand new quarts of Mobil 1 75W90, a perfect bead of Permatex Ultra Black, and a grease free diff! So, who's going to tell me how to get that c-clip out?? I guess the only way is to point the open end of the c-clip towards you and push it off. I'll see what the "manufacturer" says when I call. I'm purposely not using their name just in case they try to do a search to see if they should void my warranty (their literature sounded so strict), but if they really put that kind of effort in, I think I'm F'ed anyway.

I saw in another thread that the studs may be hard to find. A preliminary search to my favorite places, www.lmctruck.com and www.rockauto.com comes up with nothing. They come with the rockauto axle shafts though.

I then thought I might as well try the Threaded Metal Masters, ARP, to make sure this problem doesn't occur again. These babies have a tensile strength of 200,000psi! (that really means nothing to me, but it's ARP and they bolded that number, so I'm impressed). They are a little vague about what the 100-7703 fits, does anyone know?

 

[patrick112390]

:ttiwwp:

 

[BonesDT]

Hey, the above is technically a pic! I know. I apologize. I broke down at a Home Depot a couple towns away from me during my work hours. I can't take pictures until I go back, hopefully with a handful of parts and tools to get it running again. It's Thanksgiving Eve, cut me some slack!

Here's the posting on Hub Centric Rings:
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2067953&posted=1#post2067953

It may or may not have been the problem, but this incident was certainly a wake up call to deal with the aftermarket wheel issue too.

 

[DeRocha]

If you only need to replace axle studs then why do you need to crack open the diff? :scratch:

 

[BonesDT]

To solve the separate issue of the locker tolerances issue.

After this:

And the specs that they give you, it's best to follow those, if it's off it's most likely your thrust washers, which isn't too bad, yeah you'll have to take the locker back out, but just popping the thrust washers in there makes enough difference to make it work like it's supposed to. I know mine got a lot better after I went and put the thrust washers in. The ABS stopped kicking when I would slow down and it doesn't unwind quite as violently.

I'm nervous now. I probably either need thinner thrust washers if they make those, or no thrust washers at all. It's just going to bother me if I don't go back in and make it right. I'm definitely going to speak with the locker comp before I take these drastic measures though.

 

[JDraper]

Don't know why it would be so hard to find studs. I got 'em from Advance Auto when we had to do one here. Your local stealership would also have them.

I'm trying to remember how I got the C-clip off my axle ends when I took my locker out.....I think I used a flat knife blade to push it out after I pulled the springs out. IIRC, I pulled the springs, pulled the pinion shaft, pushed the axles ends in and then used the kinfe blade between the paddle teeth to push the first c-clip out.

 

[DeRocha]

To solve the separate issue of the locker tolerances issue....

Gotcha.. An after market diff cover with a drain plug is nice to have. You can drain the oil into a clean container, and then Filter it through several coffee filters and re-use it. Its a shame to throw away brand new oil..

 

[patrick112390]

Hey, the above is technically a pic! I know. I apologize. I broke down at a Home Depot a couple towns away from me during my work hours. I can't take pictures until I go back, hopefully with a handful of parts and tools to get it running again. It's Thanksgiving Eve, cut me some slack!

Here's the posting on Hub Centric Rings:
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2067953&posted=1#post2067953

It may or may not have been the problem, but this incident was certainly a wake up call to deal with the aftermarket wheel issue too.

haha with that being said, you have been cut slack on pics for now.... but it would be intresting to se when yo do get some- wish you the best of luck with your EX!

an old saying-you gotta pay-, to play

 

[BonesDT]

I'm posting this to memoralize my research so I don't forget when I make phone calls tomorrow or Monday.

I have American Racing Mojave with Teflon (Series 3981) wheels in a 15x8, -19mm (-0.75") offset, 3.75" backside, and 5 on 4.5 (114.3mm) bolt circle.

According to this:
http://www.streetdreams.org/wheels/rims/ATX/Mojave/Teflon%2520Coated%2520Metallic%2520Gray/15/8
The center bore for these wheels are 72.69mm.

This came up in a yahoo search but the link was dead:
Ford Ranger Bolt Pattern
7.5 & 8.8 Ranger & Bronco II & Explorer (wheel bolt ... AS PAIR -- 25mm Spacer, Bolt Pattern 5x114.3, Hub Diameter 70.5, 1/2 UNF Thread ...
us.geocities.com/gregoriohinton57/ford-ranger-bolt-pattern.html

http://www.1010tires.com/hubrings.asp
The closest OD is 72.62mm, they have one that is 72.65, but it looks like it may be a typo. They have one that is 72.62 OD/70.5 ID, but they only have it in plastic. So a phone call will be necessary, and hopefully they can confirm these sizes. It was impossible enough finding generic Ford 8.8 sizes, I have no idea what the fronts would be. And considering this site shows different IDs like 66.06 & 66.1 and 67.1 & 67.2, I'm not going to even attempt to try to measure the diameters on my truck.

I got a lot of phone calls to make as soon as these companies are open. I'm looking to buy 10 ARP lug studs for the rear axle, and 4 hub centric rings, preferably metal.

I'm also going to get some extra long or "duplex" lug nuts all around. The standard length lug nuts I have on these rims are too short and the tire wrenches scratch the teflon.
http://www.gorilla-auto.com/lug.nuts.page_09

I promise to post pics of all this when I get everything figured out.

 

[Four0Sport]

my friends use hubcentric rings on their imports mainly bc the aftermarket wheels they buy are unilug and that makes them uni-hub also, is that a word? idk. i have 2 pair of AR wheels and never have had any problems with the centers. yes they arent exactly the same diameter but the difference is so minute that i dont think it matters that much. as far as the shearing of the studs.. i hear ya. after years of never snapping a stud or nut on my vehicles i finally snapped a stud on my 97. it was one of the 'pink dot' studs, so im glad its gone. good luck!

 

[heathmo]

Just a guess

I'm guessing you've got an Aussie, not to get your warranty screwed on you, but if you mean to say that your tolerances were too tight then you may actually be fine. I happened across a few threads about that exact issue and they had actually called into Aussie and asked them and IIRC, too tight was ok, too loose was bad. That's why I cracked my rear diff and redid it. I'd search that up and see. I know mine was actually too loose, but it almost seemed like it ratcheted nicer that way. But it did help with it unwinding when I stop and my ABS works better now. Still doesn't like stopping while turning.

So I wouldn't worry too much if it's too tight, because apparently most are, seems to be a common issue. I think mine might just be on the edge of too loose, but everything seems ok, and my locker still looked good when I took it apart.

On the 8.8 IRS, I have no clue, but I know for my solid 8.8 it was basically the exact reverse of the install. Take out the center pin. Then, take out the springs and pins, a good needle nose will help there and a tiny screwdriver. Then on to the C-clips, turn the cam gear til you get the slot, usually it's easier to aim it down, this is mostly patience and good angles. After both C-clips are removed you can pull the shafts out and it's cake from there. Except putting the springs back in, that's a bit tougher the second time, if it gets tighter anyways, I would think looser would make that easier. So if that's the case then you've got smooth sailing.

I would definitely worry more about the lug studs a lot more, but that's a fairly simple job, but if you have to do both, I'd do it at the same time. It'll make installing the studs just a little easier since the shaft will be out anyways.