My wheel fell off. No Joke :(

[Mat R]

Tuesday, I woke up, got ready, and drove to work. On the way, my truck was making some funny noises.. kinda of a squeaking. I figured, time to replace the brakes again, and I finally was going to be able to justify those nice slotted rotors to help slow my 33s. I got to work, called NAPA placed the order, everything was cool.

I left work at 3 to go to school(University of Washington) and my truck was making the sounds again...except much worse. I switched to the slow lane, turned the radio off, making sure to note any "really bad" sounds. Of course that was when I heard something clank around followed by the scent of smoke. I'm thinking great, my pads are gone. So I decide to exit and see whats going on.

As I exit, I start to brake. I lose a lot of brake pressure, and as I near the light, a loud clunking comes from the front passenger wheel. More clunks, very loud. At a speed of 10-15 mph my wheel sperates from the vehicle which rolls into a ditch on the side of the road. The Explorer skids along about 15 feet. The vehicle stopped, and I thought "this is a very bad day"

To make a long story short. I got towed to Les Schwab(the ones around here are pretty good) they tell me that the bearings in my 4 month old hub seized up due to lack of grease which broke the spindle. They tell me to refer to the person that installed them.

That leads me to Eastside Truck Center. They "warranty" their work. The owner goes and looks at the hub, calls me back and says that it's not his fault. He explains that fords have a very small seal protecting the bearings and supposedly you are supposed to take your wheels off EVERY time you are done fourbying to check that they are dry and clean. He more or less states that there is dirt in the hub and that it is my negligence, not his. Basically he gets out of it because I have big tires, and there is no way I can argue. I saw the hub. Yes there was dirt, but very little, and it seems to me that if the bearing was properly greased it would of held up longer than 4 months. You also would think he would have told me about this bearing problem in the first place... not that it is his responsibility, but still....

Anyway, it's time for a new spindle, hub, brake line(which is extended), caliper, rotor, pads, bearings, and seal. A thousand dollars later, and I'm going to get my truck back.

A Dana44 looks better every day.

Did I mention the body damage? Looks like I'm going to be able to "afford" those fiberglass fenders a lot sooner than I thought.

Guys, be careful about you bearings, don't get screwed like I did...

Mat Sad

 

[wabbit]

What a bummer...

I hate it when stuff like that happens. I could say look at the bright side, you weren't going 65 down the highway at the time of "wheel departure". But, that seems little consolation when your sitting there looking at the damage.
It is unfortunate that so many repair shops will sidestep their responsibilities because we have bigger tires. That excuse seems to come up for everything from brakes to transmissions. It makes sense that bearing adjustment and wear is affected by bigger tires but to suggest that the assembly needs tore down and inspected after EVERY trip off-road is a crock.
Good luck on getting it back together Mat.
Warren

 

[bluescat]

Not so fast...

Mat; You didn't actually think the guy at Eastside was going to pony up w/o a little encouragement did you? Just a short message to your state government's consumer affairs agency, SEMA or the Better Business Bureau might help you along. I had my right front hub on my '94 Navajo go to but that was after 75 K. I think this guy was just trying to get out of his responsibility to provide warranty repairs. My2.

 

[WellsLaw]

A note from your forum attorney -- check your consumer protection laws .. they are quite comprehensive here in Florida.

Call the licensing commission for repair shops, the BBB, and the local newspaper -- Fords are all over the news and you can probably get the damage repaired if you handle it right...

Lastly, you could sue in small claims court for a nominal fee that would be part of the award should you prevail -- I am qquite confident you could.

 

[bluescat]

Yeah, I can see it in the papers now, WHEEL FALLS OFF EXPLORER!!! If I were the guy at Eastside, I'd be trembling in my boots right about now, praying you'll just keep quiet. This is way too much for you to shoulder as the innocent consumer who is utilizing your vehicle for it's designed purpose.
I told the guy at the Mazda dealership (the same SOB who tries to charge me $340 for a MAF sensor!!!) that there was a scraping noise to check out the new bearings he just installed less than 10K prior. Turns out the bad (new!) bearing locked up the hub, causing the entire assembly and all of it's parts to almost fail before a big road trip. I drove that SOB around until it made the noise, I wouldn't let him out until it did. The thing is I had an extended warranty that he was trying to get out of. But even if it wasn't covered under warranty of the vehicle it was still covered under a warranty by the dealership for the new bearings they installed! Definitely check your local statutes for the length and quality of warranty of goods sold and services performed that all businesses have to offer in each individual state. PS: Go show Eastside those pictures and ask for the owner.

 

[Goober]

You stated that the cause was a lack a grease in the bearing that caused this failure. The installer of the hub knew of this 'flaw' of Ford seal and didn't tell you of it? Where in the maintenance manual does it state cleaning the bearings after each use of the 4x4 or is this his personal opinion?
I see things in what you say worthy of fighting to get him to at least half the expense. I had an alignment done in Ohio(visiting my parents) and after driving back to Georgia the steering wheel had started moving. When I took it to NTB a few days after getting back, the wheel was in the 9:00 position. NTB told me a few minutes after getting there, the bolt was loose.( Yes, I told the Ohio shop owner and got my cash back).
Don't just give up, keep after him and if he still says no, tell him you'll be getting a letter soon.

 

[Rick]

Sounds like it was the shops fault to me. How many of us have been running 33's for years now without EVER having broke a spindle?? I can say that my spindles were original 140,000+ miles and they have been carrying large tires since the truck only had 500 miles on it.

You are supposed to repack your bearings everytime you ford water deeper than your hubs, not after everytime you go four wheeling. Ask him to show you where it says that in writing. I would be super pissed. I'm just glad you're ok, it could have been worse.

Good luck,

 

[Mat R]

Thank you for all of the advice guys, it really helps a lot. I'm not sure yet if I am going to call and try and argue it out more, I probably should though. The shop supposedly has a "Lifetime Warranty" on there work, and I have the original receipt which says nothing about them not being liable. The guy I talked to was the owner, and he looked at it first hand. I didn't think he would give me money without a fight, which I gave him.

At this point in the very least I am going to contact the better business bureau, and mark the shop as one that I warn everyone I know about, because it is unsafe to go there. I'm also going to put together a page on my website, protesting their lack of customer service and amazing abaility to blame their negligence on customers.

I am also going to try and see how I am protected as a customer, and find out how much it would be to take this place to small claims court, though I fear it will cost more than it is worth.

I'm glad that I didn't get hurt, and I do realize that it could have been so much worse. I thank God that it didn't happen on the freeway, because not only could I have been hurt, but when my wheel went flying off someone else could have been hurt as well.

Thank you again, you guys gave me some ammo to fight with.

Mat

 

[rpenner54]

You didn't happen to pay with a credit card did you? One that you can contact and tell them what happened and withdrawl your payments?

 

[donkey boy]

Excuse me!

Lack of grease? Is there ANY sign of grease left? Grease does not disappears just like this, not in such a short time. And if it would have disappeared, it would have left traces, somewhere.

I wonder if they ever have been greased in the first place, because it wouldn't be the first service station which forgets some "minor" details like putting grease in a hub!

 

[Mat R]

supposedly there was grease....just not enough. Specifically on two bearings, which is why the problem took four months to show itself.

Mat

 

[bluescat]

WS Manual

From the 1991 Mazda Navajo Workshop Manual, page R-00-11
"Front Wheel Bearings: Wheel bearings are adjustable, to correct for bearing and shoulder wear of the spindle. Satisfactory operation and long life of the bearings depend on proper adjustment and correct lubrication. If bearings are adjusted too tightly they will overheat and wear rapidly. And adjustment that is excessively loose can cause pounding and contribute to uneven tire wear and steering difficulties and inefficient brakes, The bearing adjustment should be checked at regular maintenance intervals.
New hub grease seals should be installed when the hub is removed. A damaged or worn seal may permit bearing lubricant to reach the brakes linings, resulting in ineffectoive brake operation and bearing failure."

After checking the manual, there are any number of things that this installer may have done wrong, like improper torquing of the bearing in it's cup or by reusing the old grease seal. If you still have this stuff, check it out. The grease seals used by Eastside may or may not be the same as what was used before or Ford stock parts. If this is the case you have a case for full recoup of all damage to your vehicle. Now's also your chance to check your left wheel for correct torque and lubrication. In other words, your left wheel/hub should be closely examined to see what shape it is in and whether it has new bearing grease seals.

 

[wabbit]

Mat, let him know you are serious...

Here's the deal...
You've just been subjected to this jerk's "first response".
He probably diffuses 80% of his warrany claims by ranting and raving about customer negligence. And I would bet he has had some practice at this. Most customers expect the shop owner to be an expert and they concede to his "expert opinion". You know this is not your fault. He knows DG&W that he is responsible for the hub failure under the terms of the warranty. And,if you really wanted to push it, possibly for the additional damage to your vehicle as a result of his negligence.
Here's what to do...
Go back to the shop with a "representative". I don't know how old you are but in this case it matters. Make sure your rep is an adult. He/she doesn't have to say a word. Just stand there with a pen and pad of paper, and witness the conversation. Be very matter-of-fact but not pissed-off. Tell him that you expect him to repair/replace the hub assembly (prior work) free of charge. He will start up with his "spew". Cut him short and inform him that we can do this "hard or easy". Either he can attend to the repairs now, or you will proceeding in court and seek compensation for every bit of damage that was incurred as a result of the hub failure. Remind him that whether you prevail or not, he should definately plan on spending a lot of time and money addressing this problem in the legal realm.

 

[wabbit]

one more thing Mat...

I would advise against slamming this guy's business on your website. If you feel like you have to, keep it specific to your provable experience and preface it as being your opinion, not a presentation of fact.
Don't lose sight of what you really want here; your truck fixed. The website slam won't do it. The BBB won't do it. Letting this guy know that jerking you around will cost him lots of time and money just might do it.
Good Luck...

 

[FlyingButtmonkey]

Maybe their are Firestone Hubs

 

[WellsLaw]

As to tracshing folks by website -- it could be seen as slander/libel and, therefore, you get sued.

As for "costing him a lot of time and money" -- usually whomever wins in small claims court pays the other side's legal fees and costs ... that is florida law...

As for the damage to the vehicle beyond the spindle (like the fender), it seems "reasonably forseeable" that when a tire/wheel falls off a car that damage tot he vehicle will occur ... therefore you acan probably recover those damages in court as well under the contract law principles and negligence principles ... Again, I am a Florida lawyer with no knowledge of other states ... but I hope this helps.

Lst time I was in a situation like this was with my old harley chopper and the mechanic failed to fix it correctly and tried to charge me and put a lien on the vehicle. I countered with a law suit for about 4 times the amount he said I owed him ($I sued him for 3,300). About a day and a half later ... ring ... ring... ring... "hello, law ofice" and it was the mechanic's step-father, a lawyer, who made me an offer and withdrew the lien immediately ... I won by using the right channels.

good luck and feel free to ask any questions.

 

[wabbit]

It's great to have a legal professional on board...

Wells,your last scenario with the Harley is what I'm talking about;
Ignore this guy's first reaction and get him to act based on the potential hassle of dealing with a court case. However, from the pics, the resultant damage goes way beyond the original hub repair. And I'm pretty sure it would have to be a legal matter to receive full compensation for the damage.
Whaddya think Wells? Should he pursue full comp for the resultant damage or just to remedy the original repairs?


[Edited by wabbit on 10-07-2000 at 06:57 AM]

 

[WellsLaw]

That is: A client decision ...

How to proceed and strategy for winning the most possible is my job. The client decides whether to "settle" or pursue the whole possible amount.

My job is also to warn of the possible "back-fires." Those include losing and having to pay the other guys legal fees and costs ...

But, Again, this is my understanding of FLORIDA law ... other jurisdictions may vary.

ALSO in Flordia you do not have to have a lawyer to represent you, especially, in small claims court.

NOTE FOR THE RECORD: I am primarily a criminal defense lawyer and am in the process of changing careers to a crisis manager ( like what firestone needs right now). I have done too many small claims and have experience upon experience in there too. The best part is most judges will feel for you and not for the idiot repair shop. the judge is more likely to side with the consumer for many political reasons and b/c the same damn thing could happen to them!

NOTE: My clients are all in crisis mode when they face the type of problems I clean up now -- lots of experiemce there!

feel free to keep asking any questions.

 

[Robert]

Re: It's great to have a legal professional on board...

Originally posted by wabbit
Wells,your last scenario with the Harley is what I'm talking about;
Ignore this guy's first reaction and get him to act based on the potential hassle of dealing with a court case. However, from the pics, the resultant damage goes way beyond the original hub repair. And I'm pretty sure it would have to be a legal matter to receive full compensation for the damage.
Whaddya think Wells? Should he pursue full comp for the resultant damage or just to remedy the original repairs?


[Edited by wabbit on 10-07-2000 at 06:57 AM]

When I filed a small claims lawsuit against a repair shop that screwed up a camshaft installation on my '86 ranger, it was a lot easier than I had imagined. Since I filed the suit, I got to choose wether or not to allow lawyers to represent the parties. I chose to not allow attorneys to represent, but I did consult with a $25/half hour attorney before filing. I won my suit. The shop had to reimburse me for what the charged for the installation and they had to pay for the $35 it cost to file the suit. I did not collect for the $25 I paid for the attorney or the increased costs I endured by using my Mother's extremely ineficient '77 Granada for my delivery job. I got about $350 back and spent about 2 hours in court. This was in Arizona back in 1990.

 

[arsoul]

Mat~ Eastside Truck Center just outside of Woodinville?? I had my lift installed there. My brother uses Randy (the owner) all the time for work on his Jeep. I know that Randy has been in court for things of this nature before, and hates it. So getting him to fix it might not be very hard.