Supersonic Spiders

[TBMounty50]

I've been thinking about swapping to an early 2nd gen front axle with the disconnect. I understand that it unlocks the pass side and the driver side is still linked. After thinking about the mechanics of this, I've come up with a question.

In order for the front driveshaft to not turn when in 2 wheel drive with the axle disconnected, wouldn't the spider gears have to turn super fast all the time?

What I'm getting at is the fact that the driver side axle shaft is still turning the carrier while the wheel is rolling. Right? Someone please explain to me what's going on inside that diff when the axle is disconnected.

 

[rjcooperss396]

The front driveshaft still turns.

 

[gmanpaint]

Since you have done the 4406 swap, your front shaft don't turn in 2wd. No more live axle.

The D35 is open carrier.

Edit: Whoops! Meant no more live axle with the CAD swap.

 

[turboexplorer]

Your front DS still turns at full RPM right now. It only unlocks the rear from the front, but everything is still turning.

If you go to the disconnect true the spider gears will give some therefore slowing the rotation of the front DS but it wont be able to do it all so the front DS will ALWAYS turn from the drag of the spider gears gear oil etc. But if you where to physically hold the front DS static then yes the spider gears would be spinning wicked fast.

No way to make everything no spin unless you can unlock hubs which you don't have so it will always spin.

P.S. Only way you can get that disconnect axle in your truck is with one of the two 4inch lifts. The disconnect will hit the oil pan of your V8.

 

[TBMounty50]

Your front DS still turns at full RPM right now. It only unlocks the rear from the front, but everything is still turning.

If you go to the disconnect true the spider gears will give some therefore slowing the rotation of the front DS but it wont be able to do it all so the front DS will ALWAYS turn from the drag of the spider gears gear oil etc. But if you where to physically hold the front DS static then yes the spider gears would be spinning wicked fast.

No way to make everything no spin unless you can unlock hubs which you don't have so it will always spin.

P.S. Only way you can get that disconnect axle in your truck is with one of the two 4inch lifts. The disconnect will hit the oil pan of your V8.

Ok, exactly what I was thinking. Thank you. I'm aware of the clearance issue but I was going to try to drop the front axle an inch or so to clear the pan. Thought it would correct the angle on the cv's from the TT as well. Can anyone tell me how much interferance there actually is and if an inch or so drop would clear it? On second thought, that would reduce my ground clearance, hmmm.

Also, mine has an aluminum pan. Any difference in clearance than the stamped pans?

Another question, Is there really enough benefit from this axle for me to go through the trouble? I'm re-gearing anyway so mine is coming out but if it's not going to stop the shaft...

 

[albi1cnobi1]

You could always do the manual hub mod. Front drive line doesn't turn at all when they're unlocked. Scott B. did a nice write up on this. I've done it and it is great.

 

[turboexplorer]

For you I would say no real advantage. Mainly because of the V8 clearance issue.

Biggest reason to force this would be because you want to throw a lunchbox locker in the front. Then it would help it feel much better on the street. But if you don't plan on doing that I wouldn't.

Second would be a PITA to make brackets and things to drop just the diff down. And if you where to do that the diff would be slightly lower than the cross member and open to getting caught on stuff, probably not a good ides seeing as how the whole housing is cast aluminum. Then third dropping it an inch will make your CV's really close to the T Bar and the LCA there isn't a whole lot more than an inch there to begin with.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the CV's are going to spin 3.73 (depending on gear ratio) slower than the front DS. So by dropping the front it would increase the already crappy angle at the DS and may cause you some vibration issues, if you have a standard U joint shaft like mine is with the 4406. If your still AWD then it puts added wear on a $200 little gay CV ford put in there that works, but is only good on most rigs for 100K at best. Especially if your wheel it.

And again it wont stop your shaft from spinning either. It may kill a few hundred RPM off of its speed with the spiders moving some but not enough to make any difference IMO.

Edit: I see you are 4406!

 

[turboexplorer]

You could always do the manual hub mod. Front drive line doesn't turn at all when they're unlocked. Scott B. did a nice write up on this. I've done it and it is great.

Interesting never seen this before. However surprised you can do this. My hubs and CV's look NOTHING like the pictures on their web site
AVM hub Swap
Mine, as I would expect TBMounty50's and every explorer I have ever seen, have the CV splined and hooks directly to the hub. Then a big nut is used to hold the CV in the hub and to hold the bearing together. My hubs do not have any splines on the outer edge of the hub like shown in the pictures. Mine is only splined in the very center of the hub. These are some pics of my hubs.

Those won't work on my style of hubs and which I thought EVERY Explorer had. Even on that web site it says:

Note: These hublocks will NOT fit 2000+ Ranger 4x4s, due to Ford's decision to switch in July of 2000 to the use of the live axle setup found on Explorers.

Good thought though, just wont work for TBMounty50.

 

[albi1cnobi1]

Thats true, you need to change the hub/bearings and the cv shafts. The rangers had vacuum hubs for a few years and there is an aftermarket hub to replace the vacuum to manual. All the parts are direct bolt in on our ex's and Mounty's. I have the V6 and swapped to a 1354 and this mod so in 2wd no action on the front axle and driveshaft.

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=284136

 

[albi1cnobi1]

Manual hubs on a 99 Mounty.

 

[turboexplorer]

Interesting, never heard of any of this. I will have to read that thread tomorrow.

 

[albi1cnobi1]

This would work nicely with your 4406.

 

[gmanpaint]

From what I have heard, those manual hub conversions are weak, and break with the 4.0 power. Installing those with a 5.0 power and a 4406 crawl ratio, might not be a good thing.

 

[albi1cnobi1]

I can't speak on strength with a 5.0 but I've had no problems at all with my 4.0. They are as strong or stronger than the stock Ford vacuum hub, which were available on the Ranger with the 4.0. The innards of the manual hub are all metal gears and splines and the body looks like a carbon copy of Ford's design. I don't do any serious rock crawling or such, but I have 'abused' these hubs with no issues.
From the Ranger Station Forum:
Recognized unanimously as The Tough Hub by many thousand satisfied Ranger owners worldwide.

AVM Ford Ranger Manual Locking Huns feature a ultra reinforced nodular iron body.

Salt-spray tested epoxi enamel finish.

Die cast aluminum cap. Corrosion resistant glossy finish.

Internal components: Precision machined, heat treated.

Premium classic design and durability... full metal cap and body

 

[turboexplorer]

From what I have heard, those manual hub conversions are weak, and break with the 4.0 power. Installing those with a 5.0 power and a 4406 crawl ratio, might not be a good thing.

That looks cool and would work great for very light wheeling IMO. The point of the explorer though has been its ease of using 4 wheel drive, so if only light wheeling was to ever be done then it really isn't a big advantage. Looks great though and would defiantly work for a locker up front when you just want it for snow and things.

I would have major strength issues with the 5.0L though, it makes way more torque down low which is where the engine will be in crawling. Also the 5.0L has quite a bit lower first gear in its trans than the others as well as the 4406 has a lower ratio than the V6 T Case does as well. Between the two its 26.6% Lower ratio than the V6 guys. The truck weighs more being a V8 and if you play on rocks I think I would have no problem shattering those hubs. Just my 2 cents on strength.

So for the cost difference I think the advantage for those that play on rocks is minimal.

 

[gmanpaint]

The point of having the CAD D35 swapped is to be able to run a locker. With a manual switch installed to the Vacuum Disco, you have the ability to drive as a DD, and be able to disconnect pass side while in 4wd.

I have both, 95 CAD & an auto locker. I do not even know the locker is there in 2wd. 4wd and switched on, amazing difference. 4wd and switch off, you can turn with ease on any surface, and in a hairy situation on the trails, you can save damage in 3wd.

I also run the M-1354 behind the M50D pushing 4.56 gears with 35"x12.5" meats. This combo works very well in any situation, or weather conditions. So if the OP is just wanting to hear a positive thing from swapping the live axle to the CAD, here it is.

Leave the Alum D35 where it is. It needs the protection from the cross member tucked up there. Install a 4" lift and then the CAD, and your golden. Other than that, break out the torches, and the bank account and do a SAS. Don't worry about the spider gears turning fast. All wheel drive rigs spider gears run all the time at all speeds, so what's the concern about?

 

[TBMounty50]

The point of having the CAD D35 swapped is to be able to run a locker. With a manual switch installed to the Vacuum Disco, you have the ability to drive as a DD, and be able to disconnect pass side while in 4wd.

I have both, 95 CAD & an auto locker. I do not even know the locker is there in 2wd. 4wd and switched on, amazing difference. 4wd and switch off, you can turn with ease on any surface, and in a hairy situation on the trails, you can save damage in 3wd.

I also run the M-1354 behind the M50D pushing 4.56 gears with 35"x12.5" meats. This combo works very well in any situation, or weather conditions. So if the OP is just wanting to hear a positive thing from swapping the live axle to the CAD, here it is.

Leave the Alum D35 where it is. It needs the protection from the cross member tucked up there. Install a 4" lift and then the CAD, and your golden. Other than that, break out the torches, and the bank account and do a SAS. Don't worry about the spider gears turning fast. All wheel drive rigs spider gears run all the time at all speeds, so what's the concern about?

I meant if the driveshaft was not turning. In AWD the carrier turns as a unit and the spider gears only rotate on each other to differentiate wheel speed when turning. Imagine an open diff doing a one wheel burnout; the spiders are going crazy to turn just that one axle cause the other is stationary.

I agree with the cross member protection though. Crawled under yesterday and saw how much it would hang down. Also how close the cv shafts are to LCA. Already nixed that idea.

I do want to put a lunchbox in the front but don't really want to put the lift on it and I'll probably break the manual hubs cause more power is coming in the future. Now what? I thought they quit making lifts for 2nd gens anyway?

 

[TBMounty50]

Ok, thought about it for a minute and decided the hubs may not be such a bad idea. I'm not really that abusive off road. Here's a question though, Is a '98 style Ranger front dif the same, except for the cv's and hubs, as my 2nd gen Mounty? I can get a good deal on a front axle assembly from the pull and pay. It's sold hub to hub and if I find one with the 4.10 gears that I want, I could save on some of the parts and just use the entire Ranger axle. Were Rangers optioned with 4.10's?

 

[albi1cnobi1]

I'm not sure about the 4.10's in the Ranger, but the front diff assembly is the same. The STX or Edge package might have had 4.10's as they were the "off road" set ups so to speak. If no one here can answer that a good place to check would be the Ranger Station Forum. That's where I got some good info on the interchangeability of parts between our trucks.

 

[albi1cnobi1]

I did some checking and 92-98 Rangers had the 4.10 option.