Primary Chain Tensioner and Left Cassette Replaced, No Start Condition! 97 4.0 SOHC

[DeerHunter7369]

Hey guy's had a bad night so any help would be great!

First: Heard bad rattle so I decided to take valve cover off and inspect seen that the Left Timing Cassette was broken ( Why Plastic?) so went to Autozone got the Cassette, tore it down found out that my Primary Chain Tensioner was also broken (Just my luck) so went back to Autozone got it put everything back together. Tried starting it and it hit and then died. Upon further inspection I had crossed number 5 and 6 wires on the Coil Pack (My Bad). Fixed that still no start will crank and crank and crank no bad sounds just won't start.

Did a compression test, Held in-between 80 - 100 in every cylinder.
Ran a camera in the plug holes everything looks good.
Theft light doesn't come on while cranking.
Double checked and everything is tightened up and all sensors are plugged in.



Thanks in Advance for anyone that can help, Zack

 

[2000StreetRod]

try starting fluid

Maybe there is no fuel pressure and the engine fired on left over fuel. Try spraying starting fluid into the intake manifold past the throttle plate and see if the engine fires for a second or two.

 

[DeerHunter7369]

Maybe there is no fuel pressure and the engine fired on left over fuel. Try spraying starting fluid into the intake manifold past the throttle plate and see if the engine fires for a second or two.

It has good fuel pressure.

 

[DeerHunter7369]

I changed the plugs, all are firing. I also changed the crank sensor to see if that was it but still no start.

 

[2000StreetRod]

low compression?

. . . Did a compression test, Held in-between 80 - 100 in every cylinder. . .

Zack, your compression is low. The SOHC V6 should have compression of 180 psi. Was the throttle plate at WOT when you did the readings?

 

[DeerHunter7369]

Zack, your compression is low. The SOHC V6 should have compression of 180 psi. Was the throttle plate at WOT when you did the readings?

Ok compression is good we didn't turn it over 4 times as directed in the manual, sorry my mistake.

 

[DeerHunter7369]

We checked the spark from the coil it is firing and there is gas getting to the plugs, I pulled the plugs after cranking and they are getting fuel to them. I have no clue why its not starting.

We hooked up the Souless Ultra up to it, showing B1356 (I think) Key in circuit fault but it doesnt have the chip in the key, will that cause no start after timing parts replacement? Had no problems before.

 

[2000StreetRod]

Pre PATS

As I recall 1997 was before the implementation of PATS. So there would not be any chip on the ignition key.

If the plugs are wet then that indicates the injectors are pulsing. You have good fuel pressue. You have good compression. You have confirmed that you have spark. The engine started once with cylinders #5 and #6 miswired. How old is the gas? Does it have a red tint and smell like gas or does it have a yellow tint and smell like lacquer?

 

[DeerHunter7369]

As I recall 1997 was before the implementation of PATS. So there would not be any chip on the ignition key.

If the plugs are wet then that indicates the injectors are pulsing. You have good fuel pressue. You have good compression. You have confirmed that you have spark. The engine started once with cylinders #5 and #6 miswired. How old is the gas? Does it have a red tint and smell like gas or does it have a yellow tint and smell like lacquer?

The gas is about a week old with some Sea Foam in it. I filled it up right before the Death Rattle, so I know it's good. The only thing I can think of is the timing chain slipped when the tensioners broke, I didn't change the Sprockets when I changed the tensioners because everything was good except for them. Is there a possibility that it slipped time? It was running fine before the tensioners broke.

 

[2000StreetRod]

What was replaced?

Am I correct that you replaced only the left guide assembly (plastic part of the cassette)

but not the chain and sprockets and the crankshaft to jackshaft chain tensioner? Anything else: hydraulic tensioner, primary guide? And these were replaced with the engine in the vehicle after removing the front cover. Did you loosen the jackshaft sprocket retaining bolt? How did you time the left (driver side) camshaft?

I've read that the engine will start and run (but poorly) with the camshafts 180 degrees out of time. The gross timing can be checked by removing the #1 spark plug (passenger side, front) and rotating the crankshaft to the TDC mark while checking for pressure at the open spark plug hole. That insures that #1 is at TDC on the compression stroke. Then remove the oil fill cap on the driver side valve cover, and with a light see if the camshaft position sensor "nub" is visible. Indicated by blue arrow below.

If its not in that position then your camshaft timing is off. However, I would think that if the camshaft timing was off the compression would not be uniform between the left bank and the right bank. Have you checked the connector to the camshaft position sensor? The sensor allows the PCM to determine if cylinder #1 is on the compression stroke or the exhaust stroke.

 

[DeerHunter7369]

I did replace the left cassette (in your pic),chain that goes to the cassette in your pic) and primary tensioner.

 

[DeerHunter7369]

We rotated the crank to TDC on the #1 Cylinder but we didn't check the cam because it was running good when I turned it off at the shop. We just kept everything in place after we rotated to TDC.

 

[2000StreetRod]

jackshaft sprocket retaining bolt

When you replaced the jackshaft to left camshaft chain did you loosen the jackshaft sprocket retaining bolt? If so, then the right camshaft could have moved unless you locked it in place. When the crankshaft is at TDC with #1 cylinder on the compression stroke the compressed valve springs in cylinders #2 and #3 exert pressure on the right camshaft lobes with a tendency to rotate the camshaft up to 30 degrees to equalize the spring pressures. Locking the crankshaft at TDC will not prevent the right camshaft from rotating if the jackshaft sprocket retaining bolt is loosened. If the right camshaft rotated then the gross camshaft timing check I previously described will not reveal it. Were the compression readings for one bank less than those for the other bank? If so, then you may have to retime both camshafts after removing the upper intake manifold in order to remove both valve covers.

 

[DeerHunter7369]

No the cam didn't move we had it locked in place.

 

[DeerHunter7369]

Ok we took everything back apart it is perfectly in time! #1 Cylinder is TDC on Compression stroke and cam was in place exactly as shown in your picture. It started again after we got everything back together again but died right after. My only concern is when it started the hydraulic tensioner was making a noise could that cause the knock sensor to engage and shut it off?

 

[2000StreetRod]

knock sensor retard

If the knock sensor detects detonation the PCM will retard the ignition timing in an attempt to eliminate the knock. How long did the engine run before it died? When you took it apart did you notice any fuel in the intake manifold? Did black smoke emit from the tailpipe?

 

[DeerHunter7369]

If the knock sensor detects detonation the PCM will retard the ignition timing in an attempt to eliminate the knock. How long did the engine run before it died? When you took it apart did you notice any fuel in the intake manifold? Did black smoke emit from the tailpipe?

Didn't notice any any black smoke. I did however find a little gas in the intake, It ran for just a few seconds then died again. When it started it went up to around 2-3K RPM then died no backfire this time.

 

[2000StreetRod]

fuel in intake manifold

The diaphragm in the fuel pressure regulator (FPR) may be ruptured. The fuel leaks thru the diaphragm and gets sucked into the intake manifold via the vacuum line. Disconnect the vacuum line and see if there is fuel in it. If you have access to a hand vacuum pump you can use it to test the FPR to see if it will hold vacuum. A leaking FPR diaphragm is the only thing I can think of that would result in fuel collecting in the intake manifold.

When the engine starts the richness is controlled by stored tables in the PCM until the O2 sensors heat up enough for the PCM to rely on their outputs to adjust the air/fuel ratio. It takes about 20 seconds from engine start for the PCM to switch from the tables (open loop) to the O2 sensor outputs (closed loop).

 

[DeerHunter7369]

The diaphragm in the fuel pressure regulator (FPR) may be ruptured. The fuel leaks thru the diaphragm and gets sucked into the intake manifold via the vacuum line. Disconnect the vacuum line and see if there is fuel in it. If you have access to a hand vacuum pump you can use it to test the FPR to see if it will hold vacuum. A leaking FPR diaphragm is the only thing I can think of that would result in fuel collecting in the intake manifold.

When the engine starts the richness is controlled by stored tables in the PCM until the O2 sensors heat up enough for the PCM to rely on their outputs to adjust the air/fuel ratio. It takes about 20 seconds from engine start for the PCM to switch from the tables (open loop) to the O2 sensor outputs (closed loop).

Sorry it took so long to reply i went back to work yesterday, I'll call my Mechanic and tell him to check it. I hope that's what it is. Could that have just went bad at the wrong time because it was running good before this happened?