Tranny noise! Bad bearing??

[DAZ97XLT]

Hi everyone!
This is my first thread here and I look forward to posting and getting some much needed help from some of you here!

Now let's get to it!

I just picked up a 97' Explorer XLT Control Trac 4WD with a V6 4.0 and a standard F57A-FA transmission...
This vehicle has a total of 172k miles!

It was owned by someone that recently passed away and I ended up with it... I'll spare you the details but basically non of the family members knew anything about the vehicle so I decided to get it without knowing anything about it's condition... The motor sounds good, rough start but idles fine after a few seconds and runs good! The transmission is hard to get into gear and I think it's due to the slave cylinder and/or maybe air in the system. I tried to bleed the clutch by myself but I'm not 100% that I got all the air out of it and it's still hard to get into gear but it's not grinding(only in reverse half the time) and doesn't pop out of gear in any gear... There's no slipping either!
I checked the tranny fluid and it's full and looks clean! No leaks etc...
The 4x4 seams to work fine as well!

The main issue and the reason I'm here is because there's a constant whining or whirring sound coming from the transmission!
The noise happens in all the gears and just gets louder the faster the speed! The noise is even present while braking in neutral!
I'm about 90% sure it's one of the bearings so I just want some opinions and whatever information you guys can give me because I'm pretty sure I'll be pulling the transmission and tearing it down to replace that/those bearings....

I'll most likely be replacing the slave cylinder too, all the bearings and maybe some other crucial components that I might as well replace depending on how expensive they are.... I'm on a very tight budget btw so the least I have to spend the better!
From what I can tell though all I'll need to replace is the slave cylinder and one or multiple bearings and hopefully that's it because I can't afford much more and I need this vehicle on the road asap!

Thanks in advance for your help!

Here's a link to my YouTube video of the test drive so you can hear it for yourself:

 

[JK080]

Sounds like it could be the rear differential to me.

A hard-to-shift issue is usually due to the clutch not being able to be fully released, possibly due to bad hydraulics, a faulty clutch disk, or a defective pilot bearing.

 

[410Fortune]

Welcome
To explorerforum!

Control trac t case wear out
There are nylon guides that come apart
Drain some t case fluid and collect it, see if there are any chunks of white nylon in the fluid, and if the fluid is black

Check for any wetness under the slave cylinder/ bellhousing
The clutch system can develop leaks in the slave cylinder with age

The long crank to start and the lack of power in higher gears could easily be weak fuel pump

The noise could be the pilot bearing or just a general transfer case front driveshaft or just a general clutch noise. The transmission has an inspection cover you can look in there and see the condition of the clutch and watch it open and close

An old 97 is gonna need a few things
Fuel pump and filter
Intake plenum gaskets
A tune up
All new fluids
And likely a new clutch and hydraulics

Is the check engine light on?

Good find! Good score!!
97 4.0 is one tough sob!!

 

[DAZ97XLT]

Sounds like it could be the rear differential to me.

A hard-to-shift issue is usually due to the clutch not being able to be fully released, possibly due to bad hydraulics, a faulty clutch disk, or a defective pilot bearing.

Thanks for the reply!

I'll be checking the diff fluid as soon as I get a chance the next few days! If I need to take the back cover off I'll do that too!
I do notice there is lots of oil and dirt around the diff like it's been leaking...

As for the clutch, if it were a defective disc wouldn't it slip?

 

[DAZ97XLT]

Welcome
To explorerforum!

Control trac t case wear out
There are nylon guides that come apart
Drain some t case fluid and collect it, see if there are any chunks of white nylon in the fluid, and if the fluid is black

Check for any wetness under the slave cylinder/ bellhousing
The clutch system can develop leaks in the slave cylinder with age

The long crank to start and the lack of power in higher gears could easily be weak fuel pump

The noise could be the pilot bearing or just a general transfer case front driveshaft or just a general clutch noise. The transmission has an inspection cover you can look in there and see the condition of the clutch and watch it open and close

An old 97 is gonna need a few things
Fuel pump and filter
Intake plenum gaskets
A tune up
All new fluids
And likely a new clutch and hydraulics

Is the check engine light on?

Good find! Good score!!
97 4.0 is one tough sob!!

Thanks for the reply and info!

I haven't checked the t-case fluid yet... I'll do that as soon as I have time the next few days!

I will mention that when I tried to bleed the clutch the bleeder stem felt loose, had a bit of a wiggle to it!

As for the crank, it doesn't have a long crank! It starts right up but for the first couple of seconds it idles rough and then smooths out...
I'm not sure how long this vehicle sat without being driven and when I picked it up it had gas in it already and I added about half a tank of new gas to dilute the old gas so I know cleaning out the fuel delivery system will be something to look into!

The inspection cover is missing on mine! It's supposed to have a big rubber plug of some sort but mine is just a big open hole! It's also going to be difficult for me to do any kind of work where I'll need help from another person! I live far from town in the country and don't have neighbors and the only person I do know lives hours away so whatever I need to do needs to be done solo!

I'll eventually get around to getting new filters and fluids, tune up etc.... For now I want to figure out this noise so I can fix it and drive it! My only running vehicle is having issues now and I don't exactly live in an area where I can walk to the store or get help of any kind... I hope this fix doesn't turn out expensive!

The check engine light is NOT on... I have a basic scanner tool I already hooked up and there are zero codes!

Yeah thanks, I keep hearing good things about this particular make and model! I basically got it for around $1000 worth of work! I figure it's definitely worth keeping and fixing!

 

[DAZ97XLT]

I did go under the vehicle and thought I'd see if there's play in the driveshaft and as for forward and backwards movement there's not much, just a hair but there's quite a bit of rotational movement and it sounds clunky too! It moves forward and back ever so slightly when rotating it and I also see oil all over the diff and transfer case!
I'm uploading a video of this to YouTube so when it's done loading I'll post it here so you can see and hear for yourselves!
I know the next step will be to check fluids in both so I'll keep you all up to date when I do!

Here's the link to the video!

 

[JK080]

The pinion shaft should have NO movement forward or back. Most of the time, the front pinion bearing will fail, causing those noises.

 

[wollimann]

Sounds like a 8.8 (limited slip?) rebuild, never heard such a heavy clunk, there is too much play
in pinion gear to ring gear and movement back and forth from pinion shaft.
I think it's not only done by changing the front bearing and crush sleeve.
Another patient could be the leaking transfer case...
Hope you will find a good and affordable way to fix the issues.

 

[DAZ97XLT]

The pinion shaft should have NO movement forward or back. Most of the time, the front pinion bearing will fail, causing those noises.

I finally got the chance to start working on the Explorer!!! I started by checking the fluid level at the fill plug of the diff and it was at the proper level but the fluid is bad! It smells bad, it's dark and full of metallic powder also!
I popped the cover off and here are the pictures of that...
The gears look good to me! There's no metal chunks or flakes or shavings... None of the teeth look damaged...
The yoke feels loose and it's obvious the front bearing is toast but I'm wondering about the other bearings inside the diff...
It would make sense this is where the noise is coming from... Noisy in all gears and neutral but loudest when in gear and accelerating...
I'll be ordering a differential bearing set most likely...
Right now I'm trying to identify exactly what axle I have so I can order the correct parts! I'm including a picture of the tag on the diff cover...
The tag says S612B and I found it's a 3.55 ratio and 8.8 gear diameter...
I'm hoping I'll be able to find the correct parts with this info?

Btw, there's no sludge or anything that would be concerning inside the diff... Looks relatively clean!
The only thing I'm wondering about is the carrier bearings! There's seams to be a bit of movement to the axle shafts when I pull and push on the wheels from the outside of the vehicle... I'm gonna take a video of the movement of the parts inside the diff and post it in a bit and you tell me if I need to replace all the bearings! I personally would be inclined to replace them all but if I can save myself a few bucks that would be nice since I'm on a low budget at the moment...

There's still the issue of the hard shift.... I'll move onto that once I've fixed the axle ... That could either be some broken shims in the transfer case, maybe some worn bushings at the shift linkage or bad cylinders?

 

[wollimann]

Did you ever did this job? Have you read something about it?

https://performanceparts.ford.com/download/instructionsheets/FORDINSTSHTM-4209-8.PDF

Not as simple as maybe someone believe, some tools and parts needed...
Please don't misunderstood, it's demending work.

since I'm on a low budget at the moment...

Not the best requirement, maybe a used rear axle?

 

[DAZ97XLT]

Did you ever did this job? Have you read something about it?

https://performanceparts.ford.com/download/instructionsheets/FORDINSTSHTM-4209-8.PDF

Not as simple as maybe someone believe, some tools and parts needed...
Please don't misunderstood, it's demending work.

Not the best requirement, maybe a used rear axle?

Thanks for the instructions! That'll help a lot!
No I've never rebuilt an axle....
I'm not worried about actually being able to do it... I'm aware of shims and lash and wear pattern on the ring gear etc...
I know what's involved....
I'll need to buy a dial indicator though...

Now, what I'm trying to figure out is if the pinion bearing is all I'll need to replace or if I'll need to replace ALL the bearings in the diff...
It's probably best to get the bearing kit since I have to dismantle the diff anyway...

I'm not going to get a used axle! They're like $300-$400 and a bearing kit for my axle is around $100!
If I had to replace enough parts in the axle where it gets more expensive than a used axle then maybe I'd go that route but for now if all I have to replace are the bearings then that's what I'm doing...

 

[DAZ97XLT]

Here's another YouTube video of how loose and how much play is in the pinion...

 

[DAZ97XLT]

Here's another video of me rotating the gears using the tire....

 

[DAZ97XLT]

I'm currently in the process of disassembling the diff! I have both the chilton and Haynes manuals but they kinda lack in information.... I see that in the Haynes manual the picture shows what's called a 'spacer spring' and says it's in the "Traction Lok" models and I'm wondering if I'm supposed to have one in my axle or not..????
Mine is the 97' XLT Control Trac model and my axle assembly is S612B with 3.55 & 8.8 R&P......
I'm just trying to be thorough and make sure I get this right! I don't want to find out later on after I've done the job that it's supposed to have a 'spacer spring'.....

 

[wollimann]

You do not have a limited slip differential with traction lok clutch plates.
(Our european 4WD 8.8 has always limited slip wit a 3.73 ratio.)
Looks like a open diff with horrible play in every direction.
First of all i would loosen the pinion shaft nut while everything is still together (maybe tires on the ground).
Hard job to loosen the nut, long pry bar and holding the flange.

The big central heart bolt has to come out, secured by the smal pin bolt (the pin likes to brake).
If central bolt is out, you can push every axle inside the diff and pull out the worn c-clips which secures the axle shafts.
Pull out the axle shafts and the 2 of 4 spider gears with their shims (do not mix the spider gears and shims).
(Spider gears and central bolt only match if they are in a exact opposite position, while reassembling)
Remove the bearing caps, dont mix them, mark them left and right.
Now you can pull the differential carrier. Do not mix the shims, mark them left and right, maybe zipptie them.
Now you see the pinion head, look at it maybe the ratio is stamped there.
Pull the pinion nut and the pinion shaft out.
Now you have a free view on all bearings and races.

Now it's on your decision what parts are bad/worn.
You need a new crush sleeve, input seal ring, small pin bolt, new nut is recommended by Ford, maybe new c-clips.
And you need tools to remove worn bearings and press on new bearings, need a gauge to measure backslash.
Sorry, but i am pretty sure you need advice of a professional guy who knows how to align
pinion depth, preload, pinion with ring gear and how to read the pattern.
The crush sleeve is only usable one time, if the pinion nut is overtighten you need a new crush sleeve
to get the matching preload for the pinion bearings.

Please be so kind and take the time to watch these two videos.



Not very easy to get a quiet rear end, sorry but that's the truth.

 

[Josh P]

I'd suggest eliminating the crush sleeve and get spacers. It makes it where you can do the job easier and the spacers won't fail like the crush sleeve can.

 

[DAZ97XLT]

You do not have a limited slip differential with traction lok clutch plates.
(Our european 4WD 8.8 has always limited slip wit a 3.73 ratio.)
Looks like a open diff with horrible play in every direction.
First of all i would loosen the pinion shaft nut while everything is still together (maybe tires on the ground).
Hard job to loosen the nut, long pry bar and holding the flange.

The big central heart bolt has to come out, secured by the smal pin bolt (the pin likes to brake).
If central bolt is out, you can push every axle inside the diff and pull out the worn c-clips which secures the axle shafts.
Pull out the axle shafts and the 2 of 4 spider gears with their shims (do not mix the spider gears and shims).
(Spider gears and central bolt only match if they are in a exact opposite position, while reassembling)
Remove the bearing caps, dont mix them, mark them left and right.
Now you can pull the differential carrier. Do not mix the shims, mark them left and right, maybe zipptie them.
Now you see the pinion head, look at it maybe the ratio is stamped there.
Pull the pinion nut and the pinion shaft out.
Now you have a free view on all bearings and races.

Now it's on your decision what parts are bad/worn.
You need a new crush sleeve, input seal ring, small pin bolt, new nut is recommended by Ford, maybe new c-clips.
And you need tools to remove worn bearings and press on new bearings, need a gauge to measure backslash.
Sorry, but i am pretty sure you need advice of a professional guy who knows how to align
pinion depth, preload, pinion with ring gear and how to read the pattern.
The crush sleeve is only usable one time, if the pinion nut is overtighten you need a new crush sleeve
to get the matching preload for the pinion bearings.

Please be so kind and take the time to watch these two videos.



Not very easy to get a quiet rear end, sorry but that's the truth.

I don't know much about axles and even I can tell the amount of play in every direction is ridiculous!

I already took it all apart, it was pretty easy actually! The pinion nut was surprisingly easy to unscrew using an impact driver... I was pleasantly surprised!!! The hardest part so far was hammering the pinion out with a hammer! There was quite a bit of rust holding the front bearing onto the pinion shaft!

I've been watching some vids on YouTube and so far I've done it correctly and the steps I took coincide with how you're telling me to do it so thank you for the proper instructions!!! I'll watch the two vids you linked later! Thanks for all the info!!!

I marked the R&P gears with a paint marker, same with the bearing caps and as for the spider gears in the carrier I just zip tied them so they wouldn't move(also marked with paint marker)...
I'm aware of mating surfaces and why it's important they go back together in the same configuration... I also know about the crush sleeve....

I don't know the history of this vehicle but what I've heard is it's had multiple owners and it's been in multiple states in the rust belt!
I suspect this axle has been worked on before and maybe why it's having issues!... Maybe whoever had it before put the wrong shims in?? idk...

I will be making a short list of parts I need including the dial indicator for the backlash.... I have a press and everything I'll need for this job... I can also make some specialty tools if I need too!

 

[DAZ97XLT]

I'd suggest eliminating the crush sleeve and get spacers. It makes it where you can do the job easier and the spacers won't fail like the crush sleeve can.

Sweet! I'll look into that option for sure! Thanks!

 

[DAZ97XLT]

Alright, with the axle apart and all the parts visible this is the damage I found........

First is the driver side carrier bearing which is the worst out of the four!

 

[DAZ97XLT]

Second is the shim from the driver side...
It looks like half of the circumference is cut into so very uneven wear on it....