1995 - Dora the explorer SAS

Hey guys... this is humbling to be able register here. I know that there are like 4 guys going to register very soon.
lizardtrac, morrisey0, FMExplorer, muskrat, jeffseal... i know there are others, but these are the guys who have helped me out in so many ways. not to mention coryl - the guy is an inspiration.

Started with 1995 XLT with 170,000 on the ticker and a tax refund check! (thanks uncle Sam)

I had torn up 2 sets of wheel bearings in the past year, needed to replace control arms, ball joints, my fourth cv axle... in all it was going to be nearly $1k in parts to replace parts that were just worn out... so the old noggin started working. wife got her a new/used car for her and gave me the go ahead to tackle this project.

Ill detail everything in the days to come and am willing to answer and questions, but ill tell like everyone else - do a search first and/or start with this thread
right now i have a High Pinion dana 30 axle out of a 1992 YJ (jeep wrangler) this was a steal of a deal and i snagged it from a fellow i work with. I was attracted to it since it is reverse cut gears, parts are easy to find and gnerally inexpensive, the axle was in excellent condition, the bolt pattern would remain the same, and i got it, with springs, and steering linkage for $250.

the springs were from a 70s wagoneer.

to achieve lift I relocated springs over the axle.

i gotta cut this short since im at work but ill update as soon as i can.

 

[BUCHVILLEMAN]

thats good to know. they seemed to work good in the XJ i saw.

have you seen a dual shackel setup?
ive heard it discussed but havent seen one. there is a zuk that has it somewhere around here. dual shackles, leafs, shocks, and i am assuming a 4 link or similar setup. would be cool to experiement with that on an ex.

cant wait to see the other SASs that you do this summer. you starting a business?

 

[taxx]

Originally posted by BUCHVILLEMAN
i thought taxxman had coil spring front with wildhorses or duff springs?

Yup 3.5" Wild Horses VR Springs and Yup I love it!

 

[NOTAJP]

Sorry Taxxman2k, I was thinking of another 2nd Gen Black sport.

 

[NOTAJP]

Originally posted by BUCHVILLEMAN
thats good to know. they seemed to work good in the XJ i saw.

have you seen a dual shackel setup?
ive heard it discussed but havent seen one. there is a zuk that has it somewhere around here. dual shackles, leafs, shocks, and i am assuming a 4 link or similar setup. would be cool to experiement with that on an ex.

cant wait to see the other SASs that you do this summer. you starting a business?

I have heard of the double shackle but never seen it. I know the zuks have a thing called a missing link but they don't make them for the 2.5" springs (I tried).

LOL, I didn't mean to start a business. I don't intend to make much money. A few guys started asking me questions so I said I do it or help in anyway that I could. It's a blast to build stuff.

Do you have pics of the XJ? That sounds really sweet.

 

[BUCHVILLEMAN]

it was on a rig in the Tuff truck challenge 2000 DVD. a blue xj on 35" boggers. it was the one that sam patton from samsoffroad.com won. i cant seem to find picks of it... willl have to dig more later.

picker up peterson's last night and there was a leaf sprung EB on rockwells and 40" swampers with revolver front. looked trick!

 

[NOTAJP]

I think I have that DVD, I'll have to check it out again. I think my subscription to Peterson's ran out cause I haven't seen it in a while. Time to hit Wal-Mart on the way home! Thanks for the references. I always like seeing other suspensions to see how it's done.

 

[Yomie]

Originally posted by NOTAJP

Robb's issues were due to the design and fabricator.

What was so wrong with that design?

 

[NOTAJP]

The rear shackle mounts were not in the correct location. Too far back so the shackle flipped fwd when the suspension flexed and wedged against the frame.

The springs were 4.5" Rubicon Express YJ Extreme duty with two add-a-leafs added in that pack.

The drag link for the steering was "bent". Meaning is had an 'S' shape to try and clear the leaves. Not a good idea.

 

[Robb]

Originally posted by NOTAJP
The rear shackle mounts were not in the correct location. Too far back so the shackle flipped fwd when the suspension flexed and wedged against the frame.

The springs were 4.5" Rubicon Express YJ Extreme duty with two add-a-leafs added in that pack.

The drag link for the steering was "bent". Meaning is had an 'S' shape to try and clear the leaves. Not a good idea.

Sorry, but there is a lot of incorrect info there.

My YJ 4.5" REs (without AALs) did not flip forward under droop, they flipped backwards under compression. This would normally indicate a condition of the shackles being placed too far forward, but with my rig, front-to-back placement made no difference. The shackles were moved to several locations along the frame to help remedy the situation, nothing worked. Those particular packs simply couldn't handle the weight of the front of my truck (the height of the shackle mount may have been a factor, but I didn't test that). Actually, with the use of a proper bumpstop, this situation would have never occured.

The RE 4.5" packs are 5 leaf. I had two leafs (same thickness) fabbed up to create a 7 leaf pack, which should be close to the equivalent of the Waggy 7 leaf packs, which have been proven to handle the weight of a 2nd Gen X. From my research, I believe that Lizardtrac originally tried to use a 5 leaf pack from a Waggy, and they couldn't handle the weight also. Remember, when referring to Waggy leafs, there were several versions stuck under them. From what I have seen/heard, only the 7 leaf packs work well. Although, my revised packs with the added leafs were never tested under my rig. My plans had changed by the time I got them done. I believe that the YJ RE packs, with the added leafs, would be close to Waggy 7 leafs in regards to flex and strength (subtract difference in length).

About the "z" draglink. Bent links aren't optimal, but a properly bent link wil handle the stress and work well, especially when compared to a straight link with too much angle and the pitman and knuckles. Bent draglinks will basically eliminate bumpster, but at a cost of strength. I had my draglink fabbed up as a temporary, until a high-steer setup was created. But I doubt that that link would cause any trouble if used permanently. A link, bent properly and with a gentle curve, is VERY strong. With a SOA leaf setup up front, the only good setup is going to be a bent link, or high-steer.

 

[NOTAJP]

Thyanks Robb for clearing that up.

I use the RE 1.5" 6 leaf pack YJ springs with the military wrap reverse eyelets. I have done nothing to them since they came in the mail from Rubicon Express. I can't say anything but good things about them. They handle the weight just fine, drive great and flex like a mother. I'd have 14" of travel if it weren't for my RS9012 shocks (12" of travel). As soon as I can afford 14" travel shocks, they'll be on there but other projects need to be finished first.

Like I have always said, I am not an engineer; just a guy that likes to build and has built many J**Ps, Exploders, and other rigs. I have yet to have any problem with any suspension other then the Superlift parts on the TTB.

 

[Robb]

Hmmm, it could be possible that that one extra leaf makes all the difference. The 5 leaf packs worked fine when testing and flexing the rig in static conditions, but locked back when in motion then braking, therefore throwing a great deal of the weight of the truck towards the front.

To be honest, I am not sure exactly why mine didn't work, I only have guesses. I believe that TrckMagic used the same packs, and they have worked well for him (on a 1st Gen).

With enough testing and patience, I may have been able to make those packs work, but I just decided to go with a more traditonal Ford design (there were other reasons also).

 

[BUCHVILLEMAN]

you guys are going to call me crazy but i am down to 4 leaves out of the waggy 7pack. 7 springs was like driving a D8. ill take a pick later but i am using the 2 long leaves and one short and of course the top leaf. the waggy mine came out of had a snowplow used on it so may be they were extra heavy duty or something. even with bumper and winch im feeling rather good about the setup. gets 70 miles a day and lots of off road abuse.

i absolutely llove the fact that so far evrey SAS has been different in many ways. of course soem are similar but all are unique in their own way.

 

[NOTAJP]

Originally posted by BUCHVILLEMAN

i absolutely llove the fact that so far evrey SAS has been different in many ways. of course soem are similar but all are unique in their own way.

Amen to that! I think I spend so much time her just to see what all has been done.

...but I just decided to go with a more traditonal Ford design ...

Can't wait to see it Robb!

 

[Yomie]

I didn't get another chance to post last night, but i am using Robb's old setup with my sas, thats why i asked

I am using the bent drag and i'm not having any problems with it, i am using the same rear shackle mounts with a shorter shackle, i don't have a problem with them flipping, but i have bump stops in there also.

I am using 5 leaf waggy springs, at ride height they have a slight arch to them and flex really well

In the future when i have some money again, i will go to the teraflex high steer knuckle, but untill then my drag link has been fine

 

[Skunk]

a bent draglink isnt bad at all... I see a few drawbacks but none that warrant me going out right now and spending all that $$ for hi-steer... I have the 7 leaf waggy pack... got em for $15 and they have lasted over a year now... they are starting to sag a bit so Ill just break down and splurge another $15 for new springs... I wheel my truck just about every weekend, and sometimes during the week, I also take it all over the place on road trips and so far so good.... it was a year March 3rd that I had the SAS... I had a few problems in the begining but most of the bugs are worked out.... and despite my major abuse offroad... and sometimes on... its held together.... can I get a amen for the SAS'd Explorers!!!!!

 

[BUCHVILLEMAN]

amen! preach on brother!

im at a year now as well. nothing like parking at the gas station next to some shmoe in his tourist ex and watching his jaw drop.

as of now my drag link is not bent... i do not see why it would make any difference though if it were as long as it is stout and does not bend at all under stress.

have you seen a "z" bar? this is on a zuki owner guy that i know and have wheeled with. believe it or not that link doesnt waver even pushing 31" swampers.

recent dora pics

 

[Yomie]

Amen again!

I wheel with a few 'zuks also, and they all seem to have the z links. Its the in thing for zuks i guess, they hold up good with them also

 

[cdsl227]

Would they hold up to the weight of the X and would the Z links be ok for the street?

 

[NOTAJP]

Here's an Amen to all SASs, especially leafs! I'm about a year after my SAS and still love it everyday. The few bugs that SASs have had are no where near the carnage and issues of the IFSers.

 

[BUCHVILLEMAN]

The few bugs that SASs have had are no where near the carnage and issues of the IFSers.

totally! i think thats what i like the best. so far no carnage with axle at all. now i have issues with my steering boxes but i think i got a bead on that.