1997 MM 5.0 c-n-p conv. *IT RUNS! 1st CL drive Problem with Overdrive*

[allmyEXes]

By the way, I did find the DTR switch off of the '99 Crown Victoria but before I did, I was looking up a new DTRS for Crown Victorias and 1999 Explorers and determined that they are different. So that meant that I needed a new switch anyway. If anyone needs a good used "PRNOD2" switch for a 1997 to ~1998 Explorer 4R70W or a 1999 Crown Victoria 12 pin DTRS, dm me.
@CDW6212R I had to come up with a spot for the CHT sensor for two reasons. The stock 1999 Crown Vic P71 cop car PCM (factory PATS off) only had a CHT sensor and the bin file for 1999 Crown Vics that Michael P disassembled and created the definition file for, didn't ever have a patch written/ created to convert from CHT sensor to ECT sensor. However, if the 2003 Ford full size sedan PCM is used, Michael P has defined that bin file almost entirely and written the CHT sensor to ECT sensor "patch" file. The 2003 bin files are too advanced to use in the 1999 version of the PCMs.
Does that make sense early here this morning while I'm still half asleep?
@Josh P I hope that Josh wouldn't mind if I snag the CHT sensor out of (his) the 1999 4.6 Crown Vic if it would be easy to get to. It is under the plastic intake. I would like to have it to make some measurements from it.

 

[Josh P]

Go for it. I've been admiring the work.

 

[CDW6212R]

By the way, I did find the DTR switch off of the '99 Crown Victoria but before I did, I was looking up a new DTRS for Crown Victorias and 1999 Explorers and determined that they are different. So that meant that I needed a new switch anyway. If anyone needs a good used "PRNOD2" switch for a 1997 to ~1998 Explorer 4R70W or a 1999 Crown Victoria 12 pin DTRS, pm me.
@CDW6212R I had to come up with a spot for the CHT sensor for two reasons. The stock 1999 Crown Vic P71 cop car PCM (factory PATS off) only had a CHT sensor and the bin file for 1999 Crown Vics that Michael P disassembled and created the definition file for, didn't ever have a patch written/ created to convert from CHT sensor to ECT sensor. However, if the 2003 Ford full size sedan PCM is used, Michael P has defined that bin file almost entirely and written the CHT sensor to ECT sensor "patch" file. The 2003 bin files are too advanced to use in the 1999 version of the PCMs.
Does that make sense early here this morning while I'm still half asleep?
@Josh P I hope that Josh wouldn't mind if I snag the CHT sensor out of (his) the 1999 4.6 Crown Vic if it would be easy to get to. It is under the plastic intake. I would like to have it to make some measurements from it.

That is very good work to figure all of that out. The CHT may not be a critical parameter for the PCM to use, but it's good to use if it can be done. The knock sensor is the biggest one I'm hoping to use with the later PCM, the 2004 and the 2014 for the 6R80 etc. There is a nice aftermarket device for retarding the timing given knock/pinging. But that is expensive and the function in the later OEM computers may be adequate enough if they are installed right.

 

[allmyEXes]

@CDW6212R It's critical for the PCM because if it thinks that the engine is cold, the PCM stays in the cold start up mode making it rich when the engine is warm but the PCM thinks that it is cold.
I won't be exploring anything past OBD2/EEC-V, 1998-2004 with J-3 ports.

 

[CDW6212R]

Okay, so that sensor is more critical in the later systems, while the coolant sensor is the must have in the older systems. I wonder how those sensors differ besides the difference in temperature of the coolant versus a head?

 

[allmyEXes]

I'm curious about how the ECT sensor and the CHT sensor temperatures differ. When I'm extending the old ECT sensor wires to run across the intake back to the cylinder head, I would like to have a way to plug in the DVOM to take resistance readings. Maybe I could leave the ECT sensor connector on to tap in there.
In my studies of trying to find a sensor to work I have discovered that the CHT sensors and the ECT sensors operate in totally different ohms range. Also the CHT sensor is more complicated having a dual resistor in the design? I don't understand this fully. I'm an old school mechanic trying to do automotive technician things, lol.
I need to go back outside to install the new pump on my wife's Explorer. In September, we are driving it to the coast. I didn't want to go out of state in it with the 27 year old water pump. 5 and a half years and 57K miles ago, I reused the original. It is Ford and not leaking, but you know...
I'm real impressed with the Carter brand. It is a new casting and even came with a gasket and 12 new bolts.
I had to come inside a minute to get a new rag before glueing it on. Last night, I forgot to get the rag first. It was late.
UPS got here just before dark.

Also, getting rid of the spring clamps which I personally hate. They could take an eye out. I don't have special pliers.

 

[CDW6212R]

The worm clamps are more likely to leak. I have found a leak at least twice with two of my 302's, which someone had replaced with worm clamps. One leak was this latest 98 that I replaced the timing cover gasket and WP last year. I evidently didn't get the lower hose clamp tight enough, and I always worry about making them too tight.

I bought the special clamp tool ages ago, it has been great for about six uses so far. It just takes a little time to set them in the right place to use access the clamps. The cost was about $35 from Amazon I recall.

 

[allmyEXes]

My luck, if I bought the special pliers, later when I'm working on the vehicle at home or on the road, the pliers would not be in my toolbox. I'm sure the spring clamps are good and exert the proper pressure on the connection.
I've always felt a bit short working on these "classic" Explorers. Teetering on a milk basket can hurt. Today I spotted my scaffolding walk-board sitting around. I went and rounded up an 8" block for each end. Now the work height is what I have been accustomed to for the past 49 years.
'97 is back together. I'm headed out to test drive.

ADDED at 6:25 p.m. central time: Test drive went well and before the drive back, added a quart to the radiator to top it off.
Mileage when water pump was installed, 205131. The blue '97 that I'm driving has 205146. Both are '97s and are within 15 miles of each other.
Apologies to those following the '97 MM thread. Other things are going on too. It all runs together.

 

[CDW6212R]

Well done, I hope you have no leaks or anything to go back at. I have one of the aftermarket platforms that work well as a mobile work bench or a higher thing to stand on. Mine I think is close to three feet tall though, I got it for some minor garage work when I need another work space. I think a big made for tall engine bays is the best thing, Jamie has one for Explorers and I'll need one when I have more storage space.

 

[allmyEXes]

@410Fortune @J_C @CDW6212R @donalds I'm trying to think of all of you guys in to wiring and that might own vehicles with CHT sensors, cylinder head temperature sensors, to help me decide if the sensor is polarized or not. The sensor is a little more than just one variable resistor that screws into a dry spot in the cylinder head. Here is a description that I have found about the sensor. CHT sensor explained.
Diagnosing CHT sensors
I've found one picture that might be the clue to how a CHT sensor is wired. Rodents had chewed of the wires on a guy's 2005 5.4 F-150.
You can see the insulation colors if you zoom in. I'm on a bigger screen than a smart phone.

You can see the yellow/green stripe, I think it is, on the left and on the right, the gray/red stripe signal return wire. I'm wondering how this compares to other post 2000 Ford products with CHT sensors? Or does it matter if the sensor is polarized?
PROGRESS again is temporarily halted. The connector crimping pliers that I bought earlier in the year are a one-step type crimpers for speaker wire type connections whereas the wire and the plastic insulation get crimped all in one motion.
The connectors for the 2020 F-250 7.3 "Godzilla" coils are a weather resistant type connector. First, the wire gets crimped then second, the
silicon or rubber boot gets crimped along with the insulation. The second crimp is done on a different position of the crimpers.
I am waiting on the crimpers, and I hope that they will arrive early next week. I'm ready to be done and this particular project is way over budget!

 

[J_C]

I don't know anything about CHT sensors, but based on the description, I'd use a multimeter to measure between each lead and chassis ground to see if there is a resistance reading, or if the sensor is not grounded and uses only the two wires. I'm thinking only the two wires because one is sometimes referred to as a return - except if the return is also a ground and just a more direct ground common to the PCM provides a more accurate reading. You could determine that if the sensor is removed from the engine but still plugged into PCM, does either have low resistance to chassis/engine ground then.

Thermistors aren't polarized themselves and there's no reason I can think of that would require it to be polarized so my best guess is that it isn't.

 

[allmyEXes]

@J_C @410Fortune On the CHT sensor, neither pin is showing continuity to ground, to the brass screwed into the cast iron. If it did, then it would be faulty.
A different topic for a moment, these last few weeks, I have had my hands on several different temperature sensors. I was working on the 1997 Explorer 4.0 SOHC and I had the two temp sensors mixed up. Jamie refreshed me. He also brought up a good point that the temp sensor for a gauge is a two pin sensor because the sensor is screwed into something plastic. The gauge sensor wiring connector was broken and I didn't know which wire went where. The 1997 temp sending unit sensor when tested has one of the two pins that did show continuity to the brass housing, so it did matter which wire is which. Hopefully I haven't gotten too far off topic.

 

[CDW6212R]

I agree with @J_C, the CHT I'll bet doesn't have either wire grounded, it should simply matter to connect the proper wires, to not mix the two up.

 

[allmyEXes]

@CDW6212R I know that neither of the sensor wires are negative ground wires. One is a gray/red (signal return wire) and the other is the sensor wire (yellow/green stripe).
My question is, are all CHT sensors wired like the one in the picture that I provided in post #390?
I may have to remove @Josh P Josh's 4.6 intake to answer the question.
Town Car 4.6 CHT sensor removal
ADDED 25 minutes later: I watched the above Town Car video and spotted a split-second pic of the connector going back on. The video matches the picture of the wiring in the post #390 picture.

I'll just go with that instead of removing anymore parts from Josh's 1999 Crown Victoria future 2020 F-250 7.3 "Godzilla" project. The 7.3 will bolt up to the 1999 4R70W transmission.

 

[CDW6212R]

Say what, what is the bell housing pattern of the 7.3, isn't it a big block?

 

[allmyEXes]

From what I hear, the 4.6 and 2020 7.3 gas share the same bellhousing pattern. @Josh P

 

[Josh P]

From what I here, the 4.6 and 2020 7.3 gas share the same bellhousing pattern. @Josh P

Yes, the Godzilla 7.3 shares the modular pattern found on the 4.6, 5.0 coyote, 5.4, etc.

 

[Josh P]

Say what, what is the bell housing pattern of the 7.3, isn't it a big block?

I like how he is giving me ideas for the car. A 7.3 swap would be cool. I looked at some other crown vic projects and the 6.0 powerstroke swapped one looks the most fun to me.

6.0L INTERCEPTOR

6.0L more than doubled the car’s power output, Barnett’s original intention for his Crown Vic hasn’t changed—he still plans to use it

www.dieselworldmag.com

 

[CDW6212R]

Yes, the Godzilla 7.3 shares the modular pattern found on the 4.6, 5.0 coyote, 5.4, etc.

Ooh, very nice. Then the 6R80 will bolt up too, and it's much stronger. I saw a console from a Marauder on eBay a while ago, that's a wish list item if you have a Crown Vic etc. I'd like to do a CV some day too but I sold my last 95 last year. I still hope to drop my Ranchero onto a late CV or Town Car rolling chassis, those should still be available in JYd's here.

 

[allmyEXes]

At work, we have a 2003 Crown Vic full chassis that a 1976 F-150 cab is going on to. We call it the CVF-150 project. We'll be using Toyota electric steering after stripping the seals out of the R&P steering. (water got in it and messed it up for power). I've entertained the thought of a 2020
"Godzilla" engine in it. Right now, there is a 302 on the stand for it and have an early AOD also. It will be available unfinished after it is all together
the first time, running, before it comes part of the way apart for the finish painting. It is a stock burnt orange color and have late model Mustang wheels for it. Also AC. We have a chocolate brown interior for it too, out of a 1979. It would be a good truck for someone.