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2020 ST Tuning

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Kirby Baker

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So according to my friend, the 10R80 tops out around 900Nm for torque, or about 663 foot pounds (depends on the gear). Kind of surprised at that, since the Aviator is marketed to have over 600 torque, I figured Ford would have designed it with more padding to the maximum rating.
 

twindadST

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So according to my friend, the 10R80 tops out around 900Nm for torque, or about 663 foot pounds (depends on the gear). Kind of surprised at that, since the Aviator is marketed to have over 600 torque, I figured Ford would have designed it with more padding to the maximum rating.
Any word on the 10R60 for us?
 

Kirby Baker

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Not yet. my friend works with the R80 and other HEV transmissions, the R60 is a different group so he has to ask around. Its safe to assume its considerably less though.
 

twindadST

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That's a little disappointing and also concerning for tuners or owners going for more aftermarket power.
 

Kirby Baker

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Indeed. He had a Flex (2015 or 2016 range, I dont recall which it was) and was going to do an LMS tune on it, and was ok with that. However when heard about the latest numbers they are getting on the ST he flat out said he wouldn't touch these tunes if he had an ST, for fear that they have exceeded what the drive-line components can handle.
 

twindadST

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Well, looks like it's maybe exhaust and then handling goodies for me. Not really into risking the transmission.
 

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Keep in mind that even though the power may exceed the rating, Fords torque management protects the trans from damage, especially when launching in the first few gears.

A lot of tuners remove or reduce this torque management so it could have a negative effect depending on actual rating with reliability.

For me, it isnt about off the line. Where I like the power is the 40-80nph when you are getting on an on ramp to merge on the highway or passing power.

My days of racing light to light ended a long time ago, especially with 2 children now.
 

twindadST

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Keep in mind that even though the power may exceed the rating, Fords torque management protects the trans from damage, especially when launching in the first few gears.

A lot of tuners remove or reduce this torque management so it could have a negative effect depending on actual rating with reliability.

For me, it isnt about off the line. Where I like the power is the 40-80nph when you are getting on an on ramp to merge on the highway or passing power.

My days of racing light to light ended a long time ago, especially with 2 children now.
I'm the same way. I've got 14 month old twins, so I just need some good on ramp and merging speed, great brakes, and nice handling. I'm not looking to give my kids whiplash at the stoplight.
 

dstewart51

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Both of my girls are 18 and 21 now, so only kid I have to haul around is me :)

Very curious as to what the 10r60 is rated for. Its not going to sway me from playing with the tuner, but I'm also not going to tune it for max smoke then take it to the drags either. At most, Ill be using a 91oct tune as that's all I can get here.
 
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tbird462002

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So according to my friend, the 10R80 tops out around 900Nm for torque, or about 663 foot pounds (depends on the gear). Kind of surprised at that, since the Aviator is marketed to have over 600 torque, I figured Ford would have designed it with more padding to the maximum rating.
The hybrid aviator is getting a special version of the 10R it's not going to be the same one that's in the non hybrid vehicles.


Not yet. my friend works with the R80 and other HEV transmissions, the R60 is a different group so he has to ask around. Its safe to assume its considerably less though.
It's going to be considerably less based on what? Cause the number 60 is less than 80?

The reality is Ford is not going to make a whole sperate transmission just to drop the final drive ratio from .80 to .60, it's cost prohibitive for them to do that. If it's like every other transmission they have put out it's just a final drive gear swap and maybe some small changes to fit it in the explorer.

The biggest difference when you look at the transmissions is how many clutches are in the clutch packs. For example the F150 has more clutches in the clutch packs than the mustang so it can handle the abuse from towing.

Question is which one did the ST get.... The car or truck version.


Related to the custom tunes I have a 5 star tune for my 3.5EB F150. They load all their tunes up on the torque side, look on any forum they are known for towing based tunes. I will not run their tune for multiple reasons but I'm not gonna open that can of worms now.

Bottom line for anyone getting a tune you need to monitor A/F, hpfp pressure, knock retard, iat2,LT/ST fuel trims an absolute minimum.

Just cause it feels good and runs ok doesn't mean the tune is safe.
 

blwnsmoke

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The hybrid aviator is getting a special version of the 10R it's not going to be the same one that's in the non hybrid vehicles.

L
It's going to be considerably less based on what? Cause the number 60 is less than 80?

The reality is Ford is not going to make a whole sperate transmission just to drop the final drive ratio from .80 to .60, it's cost prohibitive for them to do that. If it's like every other transmission they have put out it's just a final drive gear swap and maybe some small changes to fit it in the explorer.

The biggest difference when you look at the transmissions is how many clutches are in the clutch packs. For example the F150 has more clutches in the clutch packs than the mustang so it can handle the abuse from towing.

Question is which one did the ST get.... The car or truck version.


Related to the custom tunes I have a 5 star tune for my 3.5EB F150. They load all their tunes up on the torque side, look on any forum they are known for towing based tunes. I will not run their tune for multiple reasons but I'm not gonna open that can of worms now.

Bottom line for anyone getting a tune you need to monitor A/F, hpfp pressure, knock retard, iat2,LT/ST fuel trims an absolute minimum.

Just cause it feels good and runs ok doesn't mean the tune is safe.
The 60 or 80 has nothing to do with drive ratio. Those numbers represent how much torque the trans can handle. So YES, the 60 cant handle as much torque as the 80.

From the Ford Trans Engineer

"The 110 in the 5R110 does mean 1100 lb-ft of torque capacity in the transmission. The torque converter has a torque ratio of about 1.9:1, but it never reaches the maximum torque ratio when the engine is at maximum torque. The engine makes more than 550lb-ft, but it doesn't do that at the same point that the torque converter has it's full multiplication.

5 = 5 speeds
R = rear wheel drive (front wheel drive trans has an F here)
110 = torque capacity x 10
W = wide ratio gearset"

So a 10r60 is a 10 speed, rwd capable of 600ft lbs. However you need to know the torque ratio of the torque converter. My guess is somewhere around 1.5 (415 x 1.5 = 607ft lbs)
 
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Kirby Baker

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Regarding the torque numbers I posted above for the 10R80 yesterday, I forgot to mention those are input torque limits for the transmission, not output torque that it is capable of.

The hybrid aviator is getting a special version of the 10R it's not going to be the same one that's in the non hybrid vehicles.
Which is what I was referring to by mentioning the 10R80 and hybrid Aviator, the Hybrid Aviator (and hybrid Explorer) get the 10R80. Non-hybrids get 10R60.

It's going to be considerably less based on what? Cause the number 60 is less than 80?
Yes, exactly correct, as @blwnsmoke detailed out in his response. Guess I should have provided more information.
 

blwnsmoke

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Here is the response I got last night from the Ford trans Engineer. He left Ford a few years ago but it hasn't changed.

"The 60 means 600 (and I forget if it is newton-meters or foot-pounds) of torque after the torque converter. It's rated at the input shaft. So this rating means that a stock 10R60 can handle 600 lb-ft (or n-m) of torque after the torque converter multiplication. So maybe it makes 343 at 2000 RPM and 415 at 2500 RPM. Remember, I'm making up these numbers to illustrate how it could work.

I don't know the torque multiplication of that converter. Let's be conservative and say it's 1.75:1 so this means maximum engine torque of 600/1.75=343 at the crank. Sometimes they fudge this by having the stall speed below the max engine torque. if the engine makes peak torque at 2500 RPM, and the converter stalls at 2000 RPM you don't need to be able to handle peak torque at max converter multiplication."
 

dstewart51

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60 = 600 nm, or 442 ft-lb. I would not worry about the Torque Converter multiplication as all properly designed systems have a stall before the peak input torque as this is where its needed. The multiplication also dissipates very quickly to 1:1 at the stall speed.

So according to my friend, the 10R80 tops out around 900Nm for torque, or about 663 foot pounds (depends on the gear). Kind of surprised at that, since the Aviator is marketed to have over 600 torque, I figured Ford would have designed it with more padding to the maximum rating.
Per Kirby's source the 10r80 seems to have a upper limit above the face value. It would not surprise me the 10r60 does as well. In the end, only time will tell how well they hold up to both stock and tuned/modified builds.
 

blwnsmoke

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60 = 600 nm, or 442 ft-lb. I would not worry about the Torque Converter multiplication as all properly designed systems have a stall before the peak input torque as this is where its needed. The multiplication also dissipates very quickly to 1:1 at the stall speed.



Per Kirby's source the 10r80 seems to have a upper limit above the face value. It would not surprise me the 10r60 does as well. In the end, only time will tell how well they hold up to both stock and tuned/modified builds.
This stall.. isnt that the torque management (I am not an expert on transmissions except they make the car go forward and reverse).

If that is the case, the torque management is usually greatly reduced on aftermarket tunes which shoots up more red flags.

Coming from the diesel world, we bump up the torque 300+ lb feet easily with reduced torque management and never have an issue.
 

dstewart51

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Same here, I had a tuned 2011 Ram 3500 that made close to 950 ft-lbs. Tuned it with less than 2K on the clock, owned it for 6 years and put 175K on it, never an issue.

I'm no trans expert either, but have been reading all morning about the 6r60/6r80 and 10r80, which you can find plenty of info on, and comparing the differences. Cant find much at all on the 10r60, except it seems to have the exact same case as the 10r80. I suspect it's basically the same guts as the 10r80 but with some minor change that in some way de-rates it. Going to keep looking, this has me interested now.
 

Sgt1411

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They do have a $200 trade in offer.
The 5 Star trade in of an existing X4 tuner is $200 on top of a $100 Group discount that was obtained by a member here. I dont see anything but a $100 discount from Livernois.
 

dstewart51

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The 5 Star trade in of an existing X4 tuner is $200 on top of a $100 Group discount that was obtained by a member here. I dont see anything but a $100 discount from Livernois.
LME in does fact have a $200 trade in. Since I already had an LME tuner from my old Escape, I made use of this deal.
 
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Join the Elite Explorers for $20.

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Powerby50

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Has anyone used one of these yet? Any recommendations?
 
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