351 vs. 302

[JDraper]

Why not just carb the thing and not mess with all the damn computer BS!

Alot easier & cheaper.

Emissions laws..Here in PA it would not pass inspection with a carb.

 

[Dan Whitaker]

Emissions laws..Here in PA it would not pass inspection with a carb.

That's why I'm happy with living where I do.
The only thing I have to worry about is mechanical inspection every two years & the state wants to do away with it as well

 

[Spoofty]

Emissions laws..Here in PA it would not pass inspection with a carb.

That's why I'm happy where I live also. No inspections of any kind. Most trucks around here don't have any cats at all.

 

[Spas]

Why not just carb the thing and not mess with all the damn computer BS!

Alot easier & cheaper.

I'm just not a big fan of carb motors unless it's in some sick and twisted older mustang *shrug* Love my fuel injection

So I'm wondering if a 302 harness with wiring for a distributor spliced in would work? Like some kinda crazy mixed harness..? I'm planning on running MSD components anyway.... hrm. I have to ask Jamie hows he feels about playing Dr. Frankenstein

 

[rocket 5979]

Forged 8.5:1 comp 351 stroked to 393 ci w/ Canfield stage 2 heads & blower cam....Running Procharger D1SC supercharger (20 lbs boost)...60 lb squirters, SCT BA2800 90mm MAS, Custom headers, Built AOD-E w/ transbrake(not 4R70W as that is for Modular engines), MSD digital ignition, Dual Walbro GSS342 255 lph pumps w/ upgraded fuel lines, Billet fuel rails, 4 link solid rear w/ 3.27 rear gears, 15x10.5 slicks in rear, 15x3.5 skinnies up front.....on and on and on.....


This will get you to your power goals and then some.

Either way, for a custom engine build/swap, and supercharger with all the supporting mods you best have AT LEAST $10k sitting around for just the FIRST stage of mods. This stuff gets REALLY expensive even when your doing all your own work, let alone if you had someone else do this.

 

[JDraper]

I'm just not a big fan of carb motors unless it's in some sick and twisted older mustang *shrug* Love my fuel injection

So I'm wondering if a 302 harness with wiring for a distributor spliced in would work? Like some kinda crazy mixed harness..? I'm planning on running MSD components anyway.... hrm. I have to ask Jamie hows he feels about playing Dr. Frankenstein

There is an easier way....

http://store.summitracing.com/partd...908331+4294840125+4294889096+115&autoview=sku

 

[Spas]

4 link solid rear w/ 3.27 rear gears, 15x10.5 slicks in rear, 15x3.5 skinnies up front.....on and on and on.....

Planning on keeping my 4.10's and seriously beefing the 8.8, but I like where this is going

Either way, for a custom engine build/swap, and supercharger with all the supporting mods you best have AT LEAST $10k sitting around for just the FIRST stage of mods. This stuff gets REALLY expensive even when your doing all your own work, let alone if you had someone else do this.

Yeah, you're not kidding!! I originally planned on about 10k (For God's sake don't tell my family, they'd hang me upside down in the backyard by my toenails and beat me with hammers! ), but once you include fresh paint and lots of body work- read: custom hood and bumpers and shaved everything else, the bill starts getting up around 14-15K. DSS quoted me $6200 for a custom built 347 with correct balancer and a few other integral goodies... then i still need a 302 2wd parts X, 2wd front end stuff, rebuilt and fortified trans, custom made one off exhaust system, all the intake junk and engine vitals, whole new fuel system and entirely redesigned brake system. And I haven't even GOTTEN to the supercharger yet, lol. Odds are really really good that I'm going to stick with a 302 derived engine, but if I've got half a chance I'll definitely try for a 351 based block, providing I can dig up all the info I need

 

[MoabB2]

Jamie....where are you on this one? lol

 

[rocket 5979]

Planning on keeping my 4.10's and seriously beefing the 8.8, but I like where this is going

For that many cubes and the torque you will be putting out off the launch it would be dumb to keep your 4.10's as you will be spinning like mad; even with a centrifugal supercharger. The pushrod V8's don't like revs either so that is another reason to keep rpm's low (aka lower numerical gears).

 

[rocket 5979]

DSS quoted me $6200 for a custom built 347 with correct balancer and a few other integral goodies...

That IS for a fully built engine or badass longblock, right? Still kind of high though, unless you got some special stuff going into this that will raise the price (IE billet rods, custom pistons, special block)

 

[expo5.0]

yeah, i have sourced 347s locally and on the internet in the 400 hp range well under 4,000 complete...

that seems super high

when i swap i'm going with the dohc 4.6- 90% just for the "showyness" of that swap. there is a local guy here who got one intoh is ranger i can tap for help.

 

[JDraper]

Price seems about right to me. CJ Pony Parts has a fully built 347 with everything but the carb listed at about $6500. That's for a 450 hp/400 ft-lb motor with roller rockers, 5.0 sportsman block with Z heads and 10.0-1 compression.

 

[Spas]

That IS for a fully built engine or badass longblock, right? Still kind of high though, unless you got some special stuff going into this that will raise the price (IE billet rods, custom pistons, special block)

yeah, i have sourced 347s locally and on the internet in the 400 hp range well under 4,000 complete...

that seems super high

This is the reason for me starting this thread; to see if I can take what others have already learned and put it to use- in this case, saving myself some bank Spill it guys, where have you found professionally built longblock 331's/347's for cheaper than this??

This is my quote from DSS, btw:

Thank you for your interest in our products. Here is the quote you requested.

PRO BULLET Max Quench/IN/TW: 347 cid short block for use with most inline valve and Twisted Wedge cylinder heads and will accept large cams and large valves. Balanced to racing tolerances and blueprinted, forged DSS Pro Series Pistons, assembled in a Level 10 CNC Block with the billet aluminum Main Support System installed with custom ARP main studs.

SPECS: BLOCK: Level 10 CNC Block- deck equalized and squared, deck plate bored and honed in CV616 with sub 10 micron filtered man-845 honing oil, and numerous other CNC operations, RODS: Forged 5.400" Full Floating I-Beams with ARP bolts, CRANK: 3.400" stroke, PISTONS: Forged Pro-X # 4337 (Max Quench/IN/TW -18cc), RINGS: Moly E-458K, ROD BEARINGS: Tri-Metal CB-634P, MAIN BEARINGS: Tri-Metal MS-590P CAM BEARINGS: Tri-Metal CC440 $2,659.95

Twisted Wedge H... LONGBLOCK UPGRADE: Final assembly of a shortblock with heads, rockers, and all other necessary parts listed below to complete the long block assembly. This critical step in the assembly process is the key to long life and maximum power. Checking and correcting rocker arm geometry, adjusting pushrod length, and setting lifter pre-load is very time consuming but pays big dividends in power and longevity. These often overlooked steps are included in this longblock assembly.
PARTS: CYLINDER HEADS: Trick Flow DSS/Twisted Wedge "High Lift" CAMSHAFT: Ford Racing
TIMING CHAIN: Pro Gear 3 Position Double Roller 430HDSTK
LIFTERS: Ford Racing
RETAINING HARDWARE: Hydraulic (when necessary)
PUSHRODS: 4130 .080" Wall Seamless
HEAD BOLTS: ARP 8740 Hex Head Bolts
HEAD GASKETS: Fel Pro Graphite 8548 PT2
ROCKER ARMS: DSS Aluminum Roller Rockers
T-WASHERS: 1/2" to 7/16" reducer bushings for cylinder heads (where applicable) $2,800.00

Upgrade to premi... Upgrade to premium hyd roller camshaft listed below $150.00
B-31 Cam installed Anderson Ford Motorsport B-31 installed with a double-roller timing chain (6200 shift/2600-3000 converter)

Power Package #2...
208 28oz SFI SBF balancer 1 $299.95
PA26467 SFI Flexplate 28oz/164T 1 $129.95
7005 5.0 Stroker Pro Tray Windage Tray 1 $109.95
100-2901 ARP flexplate bolts 7/16" x .670" 6pcs (auto trans) 1 $12.95
150-2501 ARP balancer bolt 289-460 except 351C 1 $19.95
302 Package #2 di... 302 Package #2 discount -$64.75

Power Package #2 302 508.00
Page 2

TOTAL: $6,117.95

 

[JDraper]

Here's the description for CJ's 347 Stroker. It's a Ford Racing Performance Parts Crate Engine. Selling price of 6649.95

SMALL BLOCK "Z" HEAD CRATE ENGINE
5.0L/302-347 CID- 450HP
-347 CUBIC INCH
-450 HP @ 6000RPM (WITH HEADERS AND 650 CFM HOLLEY CARB, NOT INCLUDED)
-400 FT LB TORQUE @ 4900 RPM
-10.0:1 COMPRESSION RATIO (NOMINAL)
-HIGH PERFORMANCE HYDRAULIC ROLLER CAM AND ROLLER ROCKER ARMS
-SINGLE PLANE "VICTOR JR" INTAKE MANIFOLD
-NEW HEAVY-DUTY 5.0L SPORTSMAN BLOCK, OIL AND WATER PUMPS AND HIGH PERFORMANCE HARMONIC DAMPER
-CANTON 7 QT PERFORMANCE OIL PAN FITS 79 AND LATER FOX BODIED CARS
-MSD BILLET DISTRIBUTOR
-THIS ENGINE IS BUILT FOR A V-BELT ACCESSORY DRIVE. FOR SERPENTINE FRONT DRIVE APPLICATIONS THE FRONT COVER AND WATER PUMP WILL HAVE TO BE CHANGED.
-THE DAMPER ASSEMBLY WILL REQUIRE A PULLEY SPACER WITH FOUR BOLT PULLEY APPLICATIONS
-FIRING ORDER IS 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8
-REQUIRES 28OZ UNBALANCED FLYWHEEL

 

[90ranajo]

How about a 4.6L DOHC like this:

 

[rocket 5979]

How about a 4.6L DOHC like this:

4.6 DOHC is a much bigger and much more expensive to mod. While it is possible and has been done before, there are better alternatives out there for people with less deep pockets. Staying in the pushrod engine arena will keep costs lower. I love my modular engines, but sometimes they are just too expensive.

 

[JDraper]

Hey Lindsy,
Ya know, by the time you've finished with all your modifications, you will have more wrapped up in this than you would buying a used Mach.....and the Mach will still be faster .

Think about it...you can modify Jack and have a pretty quick X, or you can keep Jack the way he his and buy a Mach, and have both....

 

[expo5.0]

do you know what that guy did with steering in that swap? the guy here locally did a custom steering set-up- thanks.

 

[rocket 5979]

Hey Lindsy,
Ya know, by the time you've finished with all your modifications, you will have more wrapped up in this than you would buying a used Mach.....and the Mach will still be faster .

Think about it...you can modify Jack and have a pretty quick X, or you can keep Jack the way he his and buy a Mach, and have both....

Hehehehe. The Mach won't be faster, but it sure will be cheaper to mod from there.

 

[JDraper]

Hehehehe. The Mach won't be faster, but it sure will be cheaper to mod from there.

I think the Mach will be faster than a 450-500 crank Hp Explorer because of the weight difference, suspension difference and the wonderful torque curve of the 32 valve motor ..I haven't had my Mach on the track with it's current setup, but I've seen other Mach's with equivalent setups running mid 12's at around 117 in the 1/4. (I need to modify the driver to get results that good ) I've dyno'd at 302 rwhp and 327 rwtq corrected. All I've got are a C&L CAI, Borla cat back, PHP intake spacer, Meziere electric water pump and a custom tune. Those mods on the Mach go for about $1200.