351 vs. 302

[rocket 5979]

I think the Mach will be faster than a 450-500 crank Hp Explorer because of the weight difference, suspension difference and the wonderful torque curve of the 32 valve motor ..I haven't had my Mach on the track with it's current setup, but I've seen other Mach's with equivalent setups running mid 12's at around 117 in the 1/4. (I need to modify the driver to get results that good ) I've dyno'd at 302 rwhp and 327 rwtq corrected. All I've got are a C&L CAI, Borla cat back, PHP intake spacer, Meziere electric water pump and a custom tune. Those mods on the Mach go for about $1200.

With the mods she has outlined that X will be making more than just 500 at the crank..... Well,.....with the mods I outlined for her. You talked about a used Mach. Stocker Mach's are high 13 second cars in most average hands and usually are low 14 second cars in a not so skilled drivers hands so an X with even 450 at the crank will be be able to take one out given similarly skilled drivers.

Heck, back when my Explorer was detuned it was only making 450 at the crank and still ran 13.6 on the stocker A/T's with 1.9 60'. With DR's it would have been 13.3-13.4 no problem. Now factor in a lighter generation Explorer with a solid rear axle (better launching) and a little more power than what I was making and you got 12's no problem. Stock Mach 1 killer? Yes. Lightly modded Mach 1 killer? Yes. Full bolt on Mach killer? Heck no! The Mach, like any other Mustang will go faster for less money but in the end it is still a run of the mill Mustang. Don't get me wrong, I love my Mustang's, just the plain truth is that they aren't anything really unique or special. A 12 second Explorer is just a little more unique and interesting than a 12 second Mach. Both are respectable, but to each their own.

 

[Spas]

Don't get me wrong, I love my Mustang's, just the plain truth is that they aren't anything really unique or special. A 12 second Explorer is just a little more unique and interesting than a 12 second Mach. Both are respectable, but to each their own.

Dude, I could kiss you for that one... you guys just don't know how much crap I gt from EVERYone about wanting to build a 10-11 second Explorer!!!!! Because, other than Troll, it hasn't been done dangit. Mustangs are beautiful little monsters, but they're a dime a dozen

Back on topic... One of my coworkers builds race engines and is trying to talk me into a custom built 331 that'd actually come out to about 1200 less than the DSS crate motor, and this is using all new parts and block with a pretty good sized cam. Does anyone think the extra $$ is worth it to have a gauranteed motor from a major company (even though it's been set up to their standards, which probably isn't the max h/p-tq you could get outa their mill)?

 

['97 V8]

personally i would stick with the warrentied one. WHat happens if the engine decides to take a dump? I doubt your co-workers friend will fix it free. I would however use his knowledge to advise you on what to use in a 331 to get the most out of it. When the engine arrives, he can then fine tune it for ya. Thats what i would do.

 

[JDraper]

Well, if ya really want to make it unique, wild, and have gobs of torque..put a TurboDiesel in it!!!

 

[rocket 5979]

Because, other than Troll, it hasn't been done dangit. Mustangs are beautiful little monsters, but they're a dime a dozen

Hehehehe. Not so quick with that one. I am about halfways through with my stage 2 mods with the 03 Explorer. Will be putting 600rwhp down here real soon (another 1.5 months once the built tranny comes in). 11's will not be a problem for me. There are others besides Troll that are fast too.

If you plan to go 10-11 seconds in the 1/4 mile it get exponentially harder/more money to do it. It is easy to hit 12's in an Explorer. There is A LOT of stuf that needs to be upgraded to support making an 11 second run. A 10 second run is much more too. Not trying to rain on anyones parade, but it will not be a cheap or easy task to get your X into the 10-11 second zone. With me doing ALL my own work and tuning it still has cost me over $20,000 in parts alone to get where I am going. It's not cheap.

I do wish you the best of luck. It will not be an easy process at all, but that is the fun of it. Set a single particular goal and go with it. Changing your mind half ways through a big mods or part of your project can have terribly expensive consequences.

 

[expo5.0]

modded mustangs are more than a dime a dozen in the local street scene up here. if you have less than 1000 rwhp you can't even play...

frankly, i don't really get why you'd want to put all your eggs in the basket of a fast explorer. To me it seems super cool to have a fast truck or explorer etc. and i get why it's neat, but only if it is either going to be running 10s or lower (ie- keeping up with the fast street cars in my area) or if you already have a car that runs 10s or better adn the explorer is just for fun on the side/still a daily driver.

 

[rocket 5979]

frankly, i don't really get why you'd want to put all your eggs in the basket of a fast explorer. To me it seems super cool to have a fast truck or explorer etc. and i get why it's neat, but only if it is either going to be running 10s or lower (ie- keeping up with the fast street cars in my area) or if you already have a car that runs 10s or better adn the explorer is just for fun on the side/still a daily driver.

The funny thing is that it isn't about who see's what point. It comes down to personal preference, which no one has the right to question on anothers behalf. If Spas, Bill Rotolante, or myself (among others) want to go fast in their explorer then why not? Some may not see the point, but it is still there. Some may view fiberglassing all over their Explorer and doing all this custom body work as pointless but they still don't have the right to knock it. The reason for that is that it comes down to personal preference. What works for one may not work for another. Heck, I won't even attempt to get into the Import vs. Domestic fiasco, which would be a prime example.

While there are 1,000+ hp Mustangs and other cars out there, they are still really rare when compared to a vast majority of other built musclecars. Mid-low 11's is extremely respectable on and off the track. With the right planning on RSD days a person can win back A LOT of their mod money anyways.

Eggs in one basket? Not at all. If your above comment was for me all I will answer with is that I have my eggs in two baskets. One will be going mid to possibly low 11's (depending on traction) in the next few months while the other will finally bust 12's once the cold weather arrives. Then once I hit my stage 3 build I have planned for late next year my X will dip into the 10's. If your previous statement was intended for Spas then I will keep quiet and let her answer.

 

[Spas]

Hehehehe. Not so quick with that one. I am about halfways through with my stage 2 mods with the 03 Explorer. Will be putting 600rwhp down here real soon (another 1.5 months once the built tranny comes in). 11's will not be a problem for me. There are others besides Troll that are fast too.

I know, I keep forgetting that there are plenty of other beasts on this board

I do wish you the best of luck. It will not be an easy process at all, but that is the fun of it. Set a single particular goal and go with it. Changing your mind half ways through a big mods or part of your project can have terribly expensive consequences.

Thank you This is why I started this thread... I wanna have a concrete idea of which direction I'm going in before any money gets spent!

Draper- !

frankly, i don't really get why you'd want to put all your eggs in the basket of a fast explorer. To me it seems super cool to have a fast truck or explorer etc. and i get why it's neat, but only if it is either going to be running 10s or lower (ie- keeping up with the fast street cars in my area) or if you already have a car that runs 10s or better adn the explorer is just for fun on the side/still a daily driver.

Like Rocket said, it's just my personal preference. As much as I'd love to have an 05-06 Gt Mustang to play with, I've had Blackjack forever and he's been with me through years of living hell and never let me down (although he's sitting in the parking lot at work with a blown power steering rack right now ). The thrill I get at imagining what it'll be like to mash his skinny pedal, roast the rear tires and smoke other cars whether at the track or at a stoplight is worth any amount of $$ to me. I really do love that truck and I want everyone to see what a monster he can be.

 

[prerunner02]

i still say go with dss. i see in your quote from them that it is a 4 bolt cnc block. what else could be better? everything is balanced and blueprinted to exact tolerances. i wouldn't want to put over 6 grand into a motor that you dont know how their operations are run, and dss has been race proven for many years. just make sure that you let them know your intent of putting a blower on there so the compression ratio and cam specs will be correct.

 

[JDraper]

modded mustangs are more than a dime a dozen in the local street scene up here. if you have less than 1000 rwhp you can't even play....

I'd love to see how many of those "1000 rwhp Mustangs" have ever even seen a dyno and truly put down 1000 rwhp....I'd bet most of 'em won't even come close to that #...

 

[expo5.0]

i've seen dyno sheets on at least 4 local ones just in the minneapolis area

enough searching on tcstangs.com our local page should pull those up

honestly my friend's with stangs in the 500-700 rwhp range consider their cars "cruisers" rather than "fast" and know they may as well stay at home on the weekend when it comes to the fastest local street racing scene. I can only imagine how many faster cars there are in the southern states.

 

[JDraper]

Post 'em....Let's see some of those 500-700 hp dyno sheets and the 1000 hp dyno sheets. They are few and far between for street cars.

Do you have any idea at all what it takes to make that kind of power? And on top of that, what you have to do to the car to keep it from falling apart? I'm not saying that you can't get there, but there aren't many people that can afford to go there, and too many Fast and Furious fans that think they make big power and have no clue.

Btw, I did a quick look on that website, and didn't see anything near that...most of the "big" #'s were in the 400-450 hp range.....I didn't look into every corner, but there definitely aren't many (if any) making 1000 hp on the street.

 

[Turdle]

Im subscribing just because

 

[spindlecone]

If you gave the new shelby say a 200 shot, you would get some impressive numbers, most likely 650/700 crank, the engine can take it as it is a built engine (5.4, 4 valve)
Are alot of 600/700 hp stangs in my town, all runnin funny gas and well built forged engines, the short blocks of which will set you back about 8K.
My son has an 03 Roush, he makes 700 HP, is also on his 3rd engine, countless trannys and diffs.
HP is nice, just expensive.

 

[JDraper]

If you gave the new shelby say a 200 shot, you would get some impressive numbers, most likely 650/700 crank, the engine can take it as it is a built engine (5.4, 4 valve)
Are alot of 600/700 hp stangs in my town, all runnin funny gas and well built forged engines, the short blocks of which will set you back about 8K.
My son has an 03 Roush, he makes 700 HP, is also on his 3rd engine, countless trannys and diffs.
HP is nice, just expensive.

Yep...can be done...for a price and lots of broken parts. .

Are those stang #'s RWHP or crank?

Seen any 1000+ hp buggies running around lately?

 

[spindlecone]

crank, so figure 15% less, 1000 HP, No.

 

[expo5.0]

yeah, my numbers are crank as well.

one of my very best friends is responsible for building two in the 500-600 range in the last two months. I may be able to provide dyno sheets for those- just because he is excited about them and i talk to them on aim.

however, i'm not nearly interested enough in this argument to waste my time searching for dyno sheets for people's cars i don't know etc.- if you don't believe me, don't believe me? won't bother me too much. just look out if you come up to our local hangouts and someone wants to "frum roll"

 

[rocket 5979]

Post 'em....Let's see some of those 500-700 hp dyno sheets and the 1000 hp dyno sheets. They are few and far between for street cars.

Do you have any idea at all what it takes to make that kind of power? And on top of that, what you have to do to the car to keep it from falling apart? I'm not saying that you can't get there, but there aren't many people that can afford to go there, and too many Fast and Furious fans that think they make big power and have no clue.

Btw, I did a quick look on that website, and didn't see anything near that...most of the "big" #'s were in the 400-450 hp range.....I didn't look into every corner, but there definitely aren't many (if any) making 1000 hp on the street.

Go to www.modularfords.com. 400-450 is is what most of us consider "near stock" over there. If you want to see some big boys, that is the place. There are quite a few people making over 550-600rwhp on that site. Hell, there are probably 100+ KB Cobra's making those kind of numbers on that site. A 550+rwhp KB Cobra is nothing abnormal nowadays. It does take a lot of money to get there, but a lot of us on that site are willing to invest it. If you think that 400-450 on a Mustang site is what they consider "big #'s" then your probably going to some SMALL Mustang sites. While 400-450 is respectable, it is nothing that special.

A dude on my local Mustang site named Dan has a 1,100+rwhp street Mustang. It is a 95 347 with two big turbo's on it. And trust me when I say that he does drive it on the street. Heck, I will have a 600rwhp streetable Explorer here very soon. If I will take that on the street you can better believe my Cobra buddies making just as much power (some more) take theirs on the street as DD's as well. Basically ANY turbo 03-04 Cobra is putting down at least 750+rwhp, and those are usually on the smaller Hellion TT kits. Anyone running a big single turbo are putting down damn near if not just over 1k at the wheels. While not as common as Expo5.0 claims them to be, it is still not unheard of by any means.

 

[rocket 5979]

If you gave the new shelby say a 200 shot, you would get some impressive numbers, most likely 650/700 crank, the engine can take it as it is a built engine (5.4, 4 valve)
Are alot of 600/700 hp stangs in my town, all runnin funny gas and well built forged engines, the short blocks of which will set you back about 8K.
My son has an 03 Roush, he makes 700 HP, is also on his 3rd engine, countless trannys and diffs.
HP is nice, just expensive.

Spindle, if you threw a 200 shot onto a new GT500 you would be making well over 700 at the crank. The shot of nitrous in conjunction with cooling the usually high IAT's of a PD blower like what is on the GT500 will yield a much higher gain than the shot rating. Torque will usually shoot up out the REAR!!! Probably close to 850+ tq or so. The stocker GT500's pistons and rods would most likely not be able to handle that. At that power level you are getting into billet connecting rod territory, not just a mere forged H beam or I beam rod. While some stocker GT500's will be lucky and hold up, a lot will grenade their strong stock bottom ends from such a BIG double dip with a PD blower.

A forged 4.6 shortblock will usually go for $3,500-$3,900 depending on the builder. A built billet 4.6 shortblock will set you back about $4,500. That is for the most badass VT built stock bore/stroke 4.6 there is. A built 5.4 shortblock will set you back about $1k more. $8k is a little high of an estimate for just a built 4.6 shortblock. Now a longblock 5.4 with worked heads and all that would go for about $8k or so.

 

[JDraper]

Never said they weren't out there, and never said 400-450 were big #'s...read what I wrote....I looked at the website he directed me to, and the biggest #'s I found on that site were in the 400-450 range. I'm at around 350 crank hp with mild bolt ons, so 400 is not hard to hit. I could get there easily with a little bit of the funny gas if I wanted to.

My point was that 500 hp and up cars are not abundant as he claims, and that it takes a LOT more to get the big hp #'s than most people realize. Yeah, there are a lot over at modular fords, but that's where I would expect to find them, after all, it's a site dedicated to the mod motor cars.

Y'all need to really read what is posted before replying....