5r55e Install - Newbie needs help!

[eboydog]

In my 2003 Explorer Sportrac this last winter, my tranmission had a very experence with my 16 year old son and 4 foot snow drift; I was hoping for the best and rebuilt a donor valve body with no luck (first low hear went out then 2nd went out)

So while I have always done my own auto repair after getting costs togather to have the transmission rebuilt/repaired I decided on used transmission that comes with a 1 year warrenty and has 48k miles on it.

I have got the old transmission out and I'm trying to get the replacement in but I can't get the splines lined up, while I have done some major repair projects before this is the second time I have drop and re-installed a transmission at least on something this new (old '77 chevys have enough room underneath to do just about anything you want to under them!)

ANYHOW as I pulled the old tranny out, I didn't unbolt the flex plate from the TC and I later unbolted it and remove the TC after the transmission was out which I am replacing with the one that came with the used tranny; after doing some searching I believe I shouldn't have bolted the TC up until after the tranny is bolted in; is this correct? I have been fighting this all day with no success until I came across a few posts here describing the proper manner to remove the transmission which involves unbolting the TC prior to sliding the transmission out so I am assumeing that I am not getting the spline shaft lined up and seated right since as it stands I'm trying to seat the transmission with the TC completed bolted in....

Right?? Feel free to offer your advice, I'm getting baptised in fire in with this and U'm new to the transmission scene of this nature!

Thanks!

 

[IZwack]

Assuming you're refering to the torque converter when you say "TC":

Ensure that the torque converter is seated all the way into the transfer case. You'll have to support the torque converter's weight as it slides in and engages the input shaft's teeth properly. Once thats in, you have to make sure it doesnt slide back out so get creative. The remanufactured transmission I put in came with a flat piece of steel with one hole at one end. This piece of steel would bolt to one of the bellhousing's bolt and pressed against the torque converter ensuring it wouldnt slide out. Once you're sure the torque converter is seated and snug into the transmission's bellhousing (as in it wont slide back out), then raise the transmissoin on to the engine aligning the torque converter's studs with the holes on the flywheel (accessible when the starter motor is removed).

 

[eboydog]

That's what I thought and no cgriffin_5139, in the way I WAS trying to do it, the TC is NOT lining up right which is exactly the problem. I hadn't forced anything yet but as of a few hours ago, extreme force was considered!

The used tansmission had a metal strap hole the TC on just as you described IZwack; your suggestion makes perfect sense now as I had assumed it was there just for transportation and didn't need to be in place while installing.

THANKS for the fast replies, I'm hitting the hay for the night and going to get back on it in the morning hopefully with much better success!

 

[eboydog]

And yes, when I mentioned TC, that was the torque converter.

Thanks again!

 

[eboydog]

Ok, this morning and afternoon was aright, got everyting in, bolted up, drive shat re-installed, exhaust converters back on, double checked everything and begun filling with fluid.

No joy, after adding 7 quarts and starting engine, I'm getting nothing!! No indication of putting it into gear or anything, no transmission response, noise or anything.

ANY ideas were I should start now?? I'm in the midst of transmission depression!!

 

[Willard]

maybe the TC is shot

 

[eboydog]

That's kinda what I thought too, I do know the one that I took off with the old transmission is good.

Is it normal for used tranmissions to include the TC? I didn't question it as the salvage folks I bought the transmission from mentioned it included it and with the used having 48k miles on it I made the assumtion that the TV inlcuded would be better than the one I had as my Explorer has 175k miles on it.

Curious thing too, I have had this 2003 Explorer going on 3 years never had any issue with the transmission; in taking the old one out, I noticed that the mounting bolts had tool/socket marks on them suggesting that someone had worked on the transmission before I bought it new. I don't think I'm the first human to work on the transmission in this thing.

 

[Willard]

i'm not sure, but there might be a solenoid to engage the TC, you should check it out. you should talk to Glacier911. he knows all there is about transmissions

 

[IZwack]

Did you put fluid in the torque converter before you put it in? If it doesnt have any fluid, that thing is just going ot be pulling air in.

 

[eboydog]

I put about 1/3 of a quart in it, I read that I should put at least 1 quart in; tried more and it ran out when postioned horizonal.

Should I have left it open shaft up and filled it more? Does fluid get pumped into it during normal operation or the fluid that's in it when it's installed stay in it?

I'm going though the Ford documentation this evening that's to the sticky thread on the links to the Ford CD's

 

[IZwack]

7 quarts of ATF is not enough.. you need to let the pump suck for a few minutes, then fill it up some more. I'm not sure exactly how many quarts it takes but I think its something like a dozen quarts. Just let it pump for like 10 mins, check the level, then keep filling until the dip stick says its at the proper level. BTW it takes quite a while for the left-over ATF to run down the fill tube so it will be difficult to get accurate readings after filling.

 

[eboydog]

Ok bear with me on this question but is there fluid flow from the main transmission into the torque converter and back during the normal operation of the transmission?

I believe I didn't put enough fluid in the converter prior to installing it but I was puzzled by the dynamics of the input and output shafts of the transmission, am I wrong in the thinking there is a flow of fluid inbetween the two shafts into and out of the totque converter?

Don't flame me too hard if this is a completely stupid question, this is the first time I have gotten this down a dirty with a transmission!


On a lighter side, my 5 year old who is very smart told me I was going about this all wrong as it would easier if I just turned the truck upside down and work on it from the top..... At this point I may just take him up on the suggestion!!

 

[IZwack]

Ok bear with me on this question but is there fluid flow from the main transmission into the torque converter and back during the normal operation of the transmission

Thats correct -- fluid flows from the transmission's body into the torque converter, applies most of its energy on the torque converter's fins, and back into the body.



Here I stole these from HowStuffWorks.com

How many quarts do you have in there so far?

 

[Glacier991]

The pump will pump the TC full...via the main control... the TC does not suck. Like IZWACK said 7 quarts is still way low. Add fluid to spec and see what you get.

 

[eboydog]

Ok, as previously mentioned I put everything back togather wrong the first time as I bolted the converter up first instead of leaving it on the input/output shafts; with that in mind while I drained the converter and refilled it (only at 1/2 to 1/3 quart which filled it) which a lot drained while I was being dumb and not doing things right.

Now when I first stared putting fluid in the transmission, after I got to 7 quarts, fluid started running out the vent whic has were I stopped (the engine was not on as I didn't believe it wise to run it with no fluid until after I had at least 7 in it. That when I started the engine and nothign happened which included the level on the dip stick never when down so I might have screwed the pooch on not getting the converter on right with messing something up in the pump which I sure hope not but I will learn more once I get it off; in the worse case I should be able to swap the pump from the orginal transmission but that's just a pie in the sky thought which I will deal with if necessary.

The question of it's it possible to swap pumps while it seems straight forward from the tear down diagrams, I'm not sure it it something I want to get into.

I'm getting ready to take it back out and do it right this time and I have burned the Ford tech DVD which is what I should have done in the first place. I'm feeling about as dumb and as a stump about now...

 

[Opera House]

I haven't done this later transmission, but earlier ones had three engagements before the TC was fully seated. Without this, the pump may not be engaged. The pump itself can not be removed without an alignment tool to install it. The pump and bellhousing can be switched as a unit.

 

[manaen]

Eboydog, I have a feeling nothing is wrong with your transmission, it just needs to get the fluid circulating properly. How long did you leave the engine running? and did you ever get more fluid in there? it should take about 12 quarts. It is normal for the tranny to overflow if you add more than about 6 quarts without running the engine to circulate the fluid. the tranny itself cannot hold more than that, the rest is held in the torque converter and the cooling lines. It can take some time for everything to prime before fluid really starts to flow. I would follow izwack and galcier's advice and get the proper amount of fluid in there.

You need to do all this with the engine running while your filling it so you can get all the fluid in there. Last time I changed my fluid it took a minute or so to prime everything, and that is with the TC full of fluid. I imagine with a dry tranny it would take some time to prime the pump.

Do you have fluid flow through your cooling lines? if the pump is, well, pumping even if the tranny is cool there will be some fluid through the lines, and if you rev the engine a little you should get a good amount of fluid pumping through.

Oh BTW all of this should be done with the tranny in Park.

Oh here's another dumb question, did you get your manual valve hooked up properly? because without that the tranny will not do a thing, but if it is not you would notice no "notchy" feedback through the shifter as you move through the gear positions.

Hope your get it figured out!! Good Luck

 

[BigTrannyProblem]

Not to pour salt on the wound here, but I think this is a prime example of why everyone should do their tranny uninstall/install BY THE BOOK. The Ford repair CD was what I used. Links can be found to the website where the files are hosted by performing a search through EF.

I too hope that you have a good outcome on this install. If you need some inspiration, mine was my first uninstall/install ever of a tranny and it is running great.

-BigTrannyProblem

 

[eboydog]

So far the outcome is not good, at this point I leaning towards the used transmission as being bad also as I started over, got two quarts of fluid in the torque convert by taking my time and also applying a spin to the TC as it layed on the garage floor.

In getting back up in the Explorer, I found that the the torque converter would not turn completly around in order to line up the bolt holes on the flex plate so in comparing to the orginal transmission I took out, I fgured out that it SHOULD turn fairly freely.

Long story longer..... dropped the bell housing and pump from both transmission to compare and two teeth from a gear fell out of the used transmission that I was trying to install, the teeth are about the size of the flex plate teeth and while there are two of them, they fit togather well enough that it's apparent that they were at one time part of the same gear.

Any one have any more ideas nows? While it's apparent the the used tansmission is bad, I'm tempted to try to swap parts in effort to get eomthing running today but I no have any transmission tools so I think I'm SOL for now. From the tear down diagrams, my best guess is that the teeth I found are from the plantary gears.

After further disassemble edit:

I have the forward drum and planetary gears out including the rear extension off with no evidence of were the teeth broke off of, did manage to drop the adjuster rod into the upper valve plate so I might be taking the the valve plate off unless I can find a magnet to pull it out!

FYI the two broken teeth are VERY similer to the flex plate teeth but more pointed on the end as the flex plate teeth have a flat edge (I'm not implying in any manner that these teeth came off the flex plate, only comparing them in size)

 

[IZwack]

Depending on how dependant you are to this vehicle, it might be better off in the long run to get a rebuilt transmission.

You could swap parts from one to another just to get it running but who knows how many miles that transmission will last.