5r55e - Using IDS & VCM to troubleshoot no 3-4 shift

[Fireside3]

00.5 Sport
4.0 SOHC
5R55E
200k+

Using my cousin's laptop running IDS and a VCM.

Just replaced fried PCM with same PN and calibration code TTY2. Old PCM was not giving reference voltage to TPS, etc. Was having flashing O/D light and up-shifting issues about the time I was troubleshooting and replaced fuel pump. Figure I fried something when testing this intermittent fuel pump, etc.

Using IDS/VCM was able to diagnose on drive test that when in auto it shifts as such:

SSA (on) - (1st)
SSA & SSC (on) - (2nd)
SSA & SSB (on) - (3rd)

I presume it attempts to shift to 4th here, as SSA, B, & C all switch off, and it seems to drop back down into first. I assume based on the Transgo charts I have seen that TCC solenoid should be energized at this point, but it shows 0.00% and flat-lined on the datalogger screen.

Also nothing showing for the SSD/CCS. Not even an on/off on the datalogger solenoid drive test screen...as if the diagnostic doesn't recognize that the SSD is even there. I am getting a variable output for the EPC though so it's working.

So I guess I have no TCC lockup.

There is engine braking in man 2.

Seems that there is some in man 1, but not as much as in man 2.

I would think the VB gasket issue, but I think it more than coincidence that this happened the same time as a failed fuel pump, and because I can't see the TCC solenoid turning on in the diagnostic test. I can manually energize it though and I hear it clicking. This would probably be likely no ground signal from PCM right?

Perhaps I new a new calibration on this PCM is needed to match up with my truck? Apparently the new (used) PCM came from an 04. Mine is first run of the 01.

Stall test was around 2500 rpm or less at WOT in all gears.

Can anyone familiar with using IDS/VCM tell me if I can use it to force solenoid switching, or only monitor outputs? The test prompts on the drive test say they can be switched using an OCS (output control state?), but I don't know if that's a separate component from this tool.

Also...I seem to have a completely different PCM pinout from the ones shown on this site for a 2000 4.0 SOHC. Mine has pin one starting at the bottom-passenger side, rather than at the top. The pins go up in sequence from bottom to top, left to right (as you are looking under the hood toward the rear) rather than from top to bottom like the pinouts I have seen posted here. WTF? Anyone clue me in on that one?

 

[EasyRhino]

I think that this is going to go where no man like me has gone before or can understand, but I am very interested.

I keep a laptop in the garage for tinkering but have no idea how to gain this sort of info.

In short - bump.

 

[ranger7ltr]

I think you have a problem...

Since the PCM comes from an 04 Explorer I am surprised that the tranny even shifts...The 04 Explorer used a 5R55S or 5R55W tranny and it uses a completely different solenoid setup to shift gears...

I believe the 5R55E ended in model year 2001...

 

[Fireside3]

Since the PCM comes from an 04 Explorer I am surprised that the tranny even shifts...The 04 Explorer used a 5R55S or 5R55W tranny and it uses a completely different solenoid setup to shift gears...

I believe the 5R55E ended in model year 2001...

Shifts and idles now smoother than it did before it caught on fire last month ;-) Just won't shift past 3rd.

The PCM is the same part number as my original and same catchword code YL5F-12A650-CC and TTY2. The guy I bought it from on ebay might have mislabeled, but they labeled it as from an '04. Might need to reflash it though with another calibration if anything, which is why I am asking, but as long as it's same P/N it shouldn't make a difference except for programming. Mainly I know there is someone here who is a ford tech or a tranny guru and I'm looking for input on how the IDS/VCM can be used to check the solenoids. I can monitor, but I want to know if I can command a shift solenoid or if that requires another diagnostic tool. And do I have this right? It should be:

1st (SSA)
2nd (SSA,SSC)
3rd (SSA,SSB)
4th (TCC?)
5th (?)

Also, WTF is up with this pinout I have on my harness which is so different apparently than everyone else's?

This is a bit above the average DIY. I used to work with my cousin at the locksmith business, and we used an NGS and now the IDS/VCM to reflash PCMs and program key fobs, pull keyless entry codes and program PATS. This is a $2,200 piece of equipment that's usually at the Ford dealer, so I don't expect the average forum goer to know what the hell I'm talking about, but someone besides me has to be familiar with it.

 

[Fireside3]

My bad. the PCM was from an 01. One I had looked at from another seller had "04" written in grease pen across it, but was the same P/N.

 

[Fireside3]

Well....I guess I'll just consider this to be another blog post. I hear there are supposed to be transmission experts in here, but I can't ever get them to answer my posts or welcome me.

So, using the software and dealer scan tool, I was able to determine that all shift solenoids are operating. SSA, SSB, and SSC only shows whether "off" or "on", and they are turning on SSA, SSA & SSC, SSA & SSB, then all off.

CCS only shows "no fault".

TCC solenoid is in fact working, I just had to run it up a bit to get it to show a duty cycle.

So this sounds like I have internal wear or broken hard parts. I did the band adjustment and the studs snugged up, with no apparent debris in the pan, so I assume the bands are not broken. Seems that what is needed to engage for 3-4 shift that might not be working, is the high clutch. don't know. Whatever....

 

[joecrna]

I've used a NGS with help from a Ford tech. Apparently not even all Dealerships have them. Only a few techs seem to be able to use them to any true degree. I would suspect this is true for your IDS/VCM. Though I don't believe the NGS will force shifts, selonoid operation, I would suspect your upgrade might. What Im trying to say is that very few people have the expertise you need.

I agree, a worn clutch is a possible culprit. They usually fail slowly though, initially slipping when cold and eventually simply failing to engage at all. Im currently fighting a worn foreward clutch in an Aisin trans. Completly buried in the middle of the trans and I really hate to think about tearing an auto trans apart. Most all diagnostics are based on a warm transmission so the only real way to know for sure is to tear it down and look at it.

 

[Fireside3]

I'm from a small town in Texas, and Ford dealerships even around here have NGS. They might not have the IDS/VCM/VMM, but most still have an NGS. My cousin buys the best **** though, and sold the NGS for dirt cheap about a year ago and bought this. It's not the software that costs the most money. It's the module that goes between the laptop and the OBD port. Works off any old laptop as long as you have a USB port. The neat thing is that I used it to install and sync a new PCM, program new keys, and it will test for MAF contamination and all sorts of other good ****. Everything the NGS did and more. The interface sucks though. Looks like this software was written on Windows 95. Leaves something to be desired, but it's handy when you figure out how to use the damn thing.

I was able to force solenoid switching with the IDS software. It wouldn't allow me to do so with the truck in gear though if that solenoid wasn't normally commanded. I guess the PCM overrides the laptop command and switches the solenoids to what they should be.

I just wish it gave me some output state on the CCS besides "no fault".

If I can't get an answer from someone who knows about the successor to the NGS, then I still have a lot of basic trans. questions that are going unanswered....like is my solenoid shifting I described in step with the presumed gears that do seem to be engaging, 1st thru 3rd? Some of these are just overall trans questions.

According to the illustration and info sheet I saw on this site for the 5r55e, which shows what bands, clutches and solenoids engage for what gear input, I can only conclude that because I am getting all gears EXCEPT 3-4 and 4-5 shift, and the solenoids all appear to be functioning, that this must be the high clutch that is failing. I don't know enough about trans. operation to know for sure though. I guess it could be VB gasket or CCS too, but my understanding is that it's not the bands if I'm getting all other gears right? And no evidence of broken bands in the pan?

I have reverse (if a little delayed sometimes), engine braking in man2, and not so much in man1, but still forward and reverse movement. Just can't get it past 3rd gear upshift when in (D). It shifts up to 3rd, then all shift solenoids go off, and at this point I assume CCS should kick in. Anything else that needs to apply for some other gear, well that gear works, so I'm trying to isolate what is applied and what is different for 3-4 so as to narrow down the problem. I wish there were some way to jump over 4th and go straight to 5th and see if that works.

I haven't done a lot of hard acceleration since I bought this thing about a year ago. Pretty easy take offs because it was already old, so I babied it. It did have some soft shifting I suppose, but I'm not sure. Maybe it was just very smooth and easy because I was light on the throttle at take off all the time. Also kept Lucas in it, and tried to add more of that recently, but it didn't help.

 

[PopRichie77]

Get a rebuilt valve body from Central Valve Bodies, be sure to use a torque wrench, if that doesn't fix it, a rebuild is needed, with that many miles internal seals are worn out.

 

[Fireside3]

Thanks, but no. I'm not going to drop money on a reman valve body right now. I'll drop this one and do the TSB seperator plate and shift kit fix first. No need in buying valve bodies right off the bat if I don't have to when I could just rebuild this one myself.

I'm going to the stealer to get the plate/bonded gasket and pressure relief valve kit tomorrow. Will drop the VB and have a look myself before I go further.

 

[PopRichie77]

Central puts sleeves in worn bores, they have test machines to make sure all is working properly. These valve bodies are soft aluminum and the valves are hard coated aluminum, they wear the valve body. With 200k the valve body is probably worn, you can do the easy rebuild but if the bores are worn and leaking, you won't know it.

 

[Fireside3]

OK, well that's a good point, but I can tell if the VB is "tired" based on where it leaks, and I can do the wet air test as described in the Transgo troubleshooting guide. That means I'm not going to be totally ignorant as to whether the VB is worn out. Ideally, a new VB would be nice and more pain free, but I don't have a couple hundred dollars to throw at that right now.

 

[Fireside3]

I think that this is going to go where no man like me has gone before or can understand, but I am very interested.

I keep a laptop in the garage for tinkering but have no idea how to gain this sort of info.

In short - bump.

You can get the IDS software download for free at motorcraftservice.com. You will need to buy a Ford VCM unit to plug in to use it though.

Since I can't seem to get any replies from the "gurus" to any of the threads I've started, even after PM'ing them to please have a look...I'm giving up here.

 

[ImConfused666]

I'm having same problem with a tranny we just rebuilt. It shifted great through all gears for 2,000 miles and then stopped going past 3rd gear. Sometimes, it will shift from 3-4 but never into OD. usually shifts smoothly through 3. Very frustrating. First 5R55E to work on but not my first tranny. IDS also indicates that the commands to shift are being sent. Just not being acted upon. All solenoids were replaced and all ohm out just fine. Getting P0734 and P0735 codes, which would be expected in this situation. They're just not helpful as the ATSG book says it's either a solenoid or clutch problem. New solenoids and new clutches... What gives?

 

[ImConfused666]

I see there has been no reported progress in a while. I stupidly decided to go for a rebuilt VB. Did no good. At this point, I'm about to drop the tranny AGAIN and see if there is a problem with the clutches that we just installed. I'm starting to think they might not have been correct. The parts house insisted they were although the steels were thicker than the steels that were in the tranny. I stayed with the old ones since they looked as good as new anyway. This is the most frustrating automotive project I have ever done. I'm just checking to see if Fireside3 found his problem.

 

[Fireside3]

I honestly never got any help here on this, not even when I pm'd the guys who are supposed the be the gurus. I never did figure out what it was, but something very strange happened on a particular hot day some months ago...the tranny started shifting again normally at least up to 4th. No OD, but at least I'm highway speeds again with 2.5k rpm which ain't bad. There's still an issue obviously, but I'm tired of trying to find it, and not interested in tearing the damn thing apart or buying more parts. I'll drive it like this until the damn thing blows up. It's got over 230k on it anyway.

 

[ImConfused666]

Stranger & Stranger...
Thanks for the reply. As of today, we ran full line pressure tests on the danged thing in my son's Explorer and it passed all tests with flying colors. We've ohm'd out every test point that can be checked. Everything checks perfectly. Still no 4th or OD. We're planning to pull it out again real soon unless I can find the problem. My son is even more agitated than me at this point and that's saying a lot. Pulling it again seemed like a good idea until we ran the pressure tests today. Now... I just don't know what to look for.

 

[PopRichie77]

Did you check or replace the front and rear one way clutches? Did you check the center support under the bearing for cracks? When you say new clutches, who put the clutches together? A seal could have got damaged at assembly. Did you use an inch pound torque wrench on the valve body? I am only trying to point out possible causes.
Does reverse work? If not, the high clutch (direct clutch) has failed.

Since it worked for 2000 miles, assembly was ok, and the original valve body was ok. Look at page 7 of the ATSG manual for the things that are applied in 4th and 5th gear. The common clutch for both is the direct clutch.

 

[ImConfused666]

Hi PR77. Good questions.

We replaced all of the fibers in all clutch packs. We were very careful to have them facing the correct direction. We've double-checked the seals visually and with air. We see nothing wrong with them and all pistons engage at 20psi with the except of the Direct Clutch. It requires 25psi. I assume the difference has to do with the new springs installed from the Superior shift kit.

We used a SnapOn torque wrench (inch pounds) that had recently been re-certified. Reverse works great. At least, it did before we pulled it out this last time ;-).

As for testing everything that is used for each gear, I'm not sure what else we can do. We've tested each sub-assembly using air pressure with the transmission out of the vehicle and checked the line pressure while it is installed. That's what is driving us crazy. Everything checks out as being perfect. You would think if anything was cracked or ruptured or mis-installed, that the tranny would fail some test (any test). Of course, you could say it fails the most crucial test. It doesn't work when installed.

Any other suggestions are welcomed! I'm not ruling act any act of ignorance committed by either of us.

 

[PopRichie77]

You didn't say before that you installed a shift kit or I missed it. At this point, I would check the valve body. Something may have been installed wrong. Make sure the L keepers are in correct and holding the valves in place. It is very easy to make a mistake, I have done it, the little dog bone in front of the forward valve flipped over when I dropped it into the valve bore, thus making it installed wrong. The springs are easy to mix up also as several look alike but they are different. You can measure the diameter and the length. I would go over everything very carefully.