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93 explorer sport starting issues

SFCRangerDoc

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Update:

Car has sat since monday. It was cold and damp this morning. Car wouldn't start until about the 8th or 9th crank. It acted like it was going to catch a couple of times but felt like it was choking out. When I finally did get it running it did its normal high idle for a bit and then settled down. it was idling kinda rough though...almost like misfire or something. I'm seriously at a loss as to what to do from here. Injectors?Fuel pump? Computer? MAF?
 



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The_Phoenix

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Just curious have you checked fuel pressure, I have not read the entire post yet but it sounds like u may have a bad pressure regulator. I'm at work at the present time so when I get off I'll read the entire posting.
 






SFCRangerDoc

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Just curious have you checked fuel pressure, I have not read the entire post yet but it sounds like u may have a bad pressure regulator. I'm at work at the present time so when I get off I'll read the entire posting.

Yes, the regulator was one of the first things I changed. So far the list of things I've done is this:

Replaced fuel regulator
Fuel pressure sits between 32-38PSI
Checked IAC and TPS. Replaced TPS and verified voltage is in spec for the IAC.
Replaced Coolant temp sensor and air charge temp sensor
Verified Relays are running the fuel pump and ECU properly.
Verified coil pack is firing all 6
Replaced spark plugs and wires
Replaced fuel filter
Cleaned MAF sensor but have not replaced it
Opened up the ECU and verified capacitors are not burst and no visible leakage on the board. Have not swapped ECU's however.

12185632_10100576883198314_172426042_o_zpsiexkfoda.jpg


Fuel pump can be heard running on key turn but haven't changed fuel pump

Car runs rough at idle once i am able to get it started. Almost like its stumbling/misfire Once run for a bit on the road though it seems to smooth out and power is good. Car will restart easily after I am able to get it cranked finally.
 






Rhett

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You mentioned a bunch of crap was in the fuel filter when you cut it open.
Some is normal, but do you think there may be a blockage or partial blockage in the fuel lines themselves? Or at the pump?
 






SFCRangerDoc

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You mentioned a bunch of crap was in the fuel filter when you cut it open.
Some is normal, but do you think there may be a blockage or partial blockage in the fuel lines themselves? Or at the pump?

I mean its possible, but wouldn't i see consistent bad performance and running if that was the case? Fuel pressure at the rail kicks up to the mid 30s right away if you turn the key to run but not start so it acts like it gets all the pressure it needs right away.

I suppose there could be an injector problem too they have little screens in them that could get plugged. Maybe I'll run a tank or two of injector cleaner just for good measure.

The car does smell like it runs rich at idle so maybe the injectors are getting stuck open and dumping too MUCH fuel in at startup...
 






The_Phoenix

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Rangerdoc that is what I was getting at earlier I had a yota that would basically flood itself the psi regulator was bad. Since u have replaced it and verified fuel pressure, it wouldn't be a bad decision to pull the dipstick and see if u get a gas odor, aswell as pull plugs see what they look like, if its a injector problem there easy to bench test and clean out. I did it on mine made a big difference seafoam also works wonders.
 






SFCRangerDoc

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Rangerdoc that is what I was getting at earlier I had a yota that would basically flood itself the psi regulator was bad. Since u have replaced it and verified fuel pressure, it wouldn't be a bad decision to pull the dipstick and see if u get a gas odor, aswell as pull plugs see what they look like, if its a injector problem there easy to bench test and clean out. I did it on mine made a big difference seafoam also works wonders.

Plugs are brand new. Old plugs were whiteish which an earlier poster said was indicating the car was running lean...however when I actually am able to get the car running it smells like its running really rich until i drive it a few miles....almost like it is flooded. Also if i pull the air intake off the throttle body after sitting a while it does smell of gasoline more than I think it should. Theres a pic earlier in the thread of the spark plugs for your reference. I may try the seafoam for grins...at this point it cant do any harm.
 






mr cribb

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Ok, I have read everything, and I think I have a solution.

Near your battery there's a round plug and it terminates into the negative post. I had this issue with my last exploder.

I created two new ground wires (10 gauge wire) and grounded them to a new battery terminal. You also might want to consider new battery cables. I have a small write up on creating a new negative battery cable.

This round plug is your ECM (computer) ground, and my suspicions lead me here because you have no check engine light illuminating.

My symptoms were a crank no start situation and this fixed the problem.
 






SFCRangerDoc

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Ok, I have read everything, and I think I have a solution.

Near your battery there's a round plug and it terminates into the negative post. I had this issue with my last exploder.

I created two new ground wires (10 gauge wire) and grounded them to a new battery terminal. You also might want to consider new battery cables. I have a small write up on creating a new negative battery cable.

This round plug is your ECM (computer) ground, and my suspicions lead me here because you have no check engine light illuminating.

My symptoms were a crank no start situation and this fixed the problem.

I will look at this this weekend!!! Thank you for the information. Anything at this point is helpful!

i assume this is the writeup you're speaking of??

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=419485

Also, i guess im curious as to why this would only cause issues after sitting a while instead of all the time. Wouldnt a bad ground cause starting problems constantly?

Doc
 






The_Phoenix

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im curious if that is your problem, if not, after reading your post and all the black goop in your fuel filter I wonder if any of that got into your injectors, which could be causing your lean condition. other than that im at a loss. good luck
 






SFCRangerDoc

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I tried an experiment today. Car has sat for 2 days. Without cranking i sprayed starter fluid into the intake and then cranked....car started immeadiately and kept running, although once the fluid burned off it ran super rough and was kinda sputtering. I'm thinking injectors.
 






natenkiki2004

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I tried an experiment today. Car has sat for 2 days. Without cranking i sprayed starter fluid into the intake and then cranked....car started immeadiately and kept running, although once the fluid burned off it ran super rough and was kinda sputtering. I'm thinking injectors.

Could be or could be wrong MAF signal or wrong temperature sent to the PCM (faulty temp sensor).
 






SFCRangerDoc

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Sorry for the double update today....one thing i did try today after the car sat overnight...i pulled a couple of the spark plugs and they are damp and smell of fuel. I really do think I have an injector problem at this point. SeaFoam is on the way and Im going to run a couple cans of it through to see if that'll clean out my injectors
 






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Nothing you pour in your tank will clean your injectors. You won't be out much by trying though. If its happening on all cylinders, its most likely not the injectors. I don't see where you ever tried another ICM.
 






SFCRangerDoc

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Could be or could be wrong MAF signal or wrong temperature sent to the PCM (faulty temp sensor).

I agree with the MAF thought. I haven't replaced it, only cleaned it. However, when i disconnect it or pop the air hose off the throttle body it does kick the CEL and the car begins to run "more" poorly so that leads me to think its ok. Also the only time I get MAF codes on the reader is during running and those are i "think" generated by the fact i have pulled off the air intake while the truck is running. I've replaced the temp sensors so it cant really be that.

Nothing you pour in your tank will clean your injectors. You won't be out much by trying though. If its happening on all cylinders, its most likely not the injectors. I don't see where you ever tried another ICM.

I have no replaced the ICM, however I ran a spark test at the coil pack and and am getting strong spark on crank (even if the truck doesnt start) honestly the truck acts like its getting way too much fuel after all the tests ive done. I know lots of people don't think the in-tank cleaners do much but I've heard of sea foam working wonders on vehicles. According to their website you can dump 2 cans in the tank to make it more potent (which im going to do)
 






mr cribb

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Picture of round plug aka Computer ground

[IMG/][/URL]http://s1186.photobucket.com/albums/z376/mrcribb/mobile%20uploads/image_zpss8tbycsf.jpeg[/URL][/IMG]

 






2stroke

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I've tried seafoam and other carb/injector cleaners in the gas a lot of times. I am at a total of 0 successes. A much more effective way is to pull the injectors and clean them. Still, injectors don't all fail at once. One at a time, two if you are unlucky. If its happening on all cylinders, its not the injectors. Anytime a sensor fails, the computer goes into open loop mode which is very rich. Even a failed 02 sensor, while it won't normally effect startup, could cause the engine to run rich.
 






mr cribb

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Sorry computer died and I'm trying to upload this crap with my phone.

RangerDoc pm an email address and I can attach the pic to an email for you
 






natenkiki2004

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You can't rule out the MAF because it runs worse when you remove the air tube. You should unhook the battery, unplug the sensor, hook the battery up and start the engine and let it run a while. If it still runs bad or worse, then your MAF is likely fine.

The issue is when a sensor gives bad information, the computer adapts parameters to compensate. When you put a good sensor on without disconnecting the battery, the computer is still compensating and now runs even worse due to the proper data being sent.


Cribb was trying to embed this:
image_zpss8tbycsf.jpg
 



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SFCRangerDoc

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You can't rule out the MAF because it runs worse when you remove the air tube. You should unhook the battery, unplug the sensor, hook the battery up and start the engine and let it run a while. If it still runs bad or worse, then your MAF is likely fine.

The issue is when a sensor gives bad information, the computer adapts parameters to compensate. When you put a good sensor on without disconnecting the battery, the computer is still compensating and now runs even worse due to the proper data being sent.


This is very true! I'll do this as well.
 






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