A4LD Swap option from Advance Adapters

[410Fortune]

here you go...all you need to know about the adjustable solid link for OHV 4.0L's to help with the weak ass ruber motor and tranny mounts:

www.4.0performance.com

Thank Doug904............

 

[SteveVB]

Thanks- never saw those, I dont even have a stock one, and didnt know that Ford included them. Learn something new all the time with this site.

 

[Dignan]

I have bad news which might be good news if my pocket book can handle it
Yesterday my transmission died. I guess it was a little overdue the A4LD has 190,000 miles on it. So if I were to go for this 700-R4, how much would I be looking at? and how long would it take?
I saw a thread about two years ago about a nine-speed transmission made out of an A4LD. It wasn't really nine gears, but the over-drive and torque converters were independantly controlled giving the three gears three options or "9-speeds". What would be the best way to go here, from the aspect of both money and off-road capability?

 

[dejello]

GAH! Mine died a couple of days ago... but I need a new tranny now... Why can't you be done with this?

 

[Diff Whack Daddy]

Okay, the shifter is a Lokar shifter and the boot and LED gear indicator have not been installed yet.

All that are really interested in this, call AA and ask for Vic. Pricing has not been set yet, but I know they are trying to see how much interest there actually is in the kit. More interest equals more motivation to get this project completed and on the market.

 

[Dignan]

Thanks for the info, I will call Vic tomorrow. I assume they make the adapters and you provide the transmission. If I have to provide my own tranny, where is the best place to get it? Would it be a good idea to get one online such as on the following link?

http://www.netgearhead.com/store/parts/view_parts.asp?grp=170&app=5&year=

or would it be best to look in local junk yards for an old chevy and take the tranny and rebuild it? If so, is it just from the chevy pickups, what kind of car would I look for to find a 700-R4?

 

[mrboyle]

Dignan,
The tranny you want is a small case 700-R4 from a S-10 with the 2.8L V6 engine. The 700 from behind any other vehicle (fullsize, 4.3L, etc..) will not fit. As mentioned before in the thread, you are better off trying to find one that needs rebuilt, since the tranny will need to be disassembled in order to install the new output shaft.

 

[Diff Whack Daddy]

I bought mine direct from http://www.bowtieoverdrives.com/
They also have the needed torque converter lockup wiring and are also developing the TV cable linkage to allow it to shift propery. They installed the new output shaft when they built the tranny.

As mrboyle stated, if you can find a 60 degree 700-R4 from a junkyard or something, the cheapest way would be to have the shaft installed at a local tranny shop as they can also rebuild it with the stronger internals. This would avoid shipping charges which are pretty large for a tranny. It's al a matter of works best for you. I used bowtie because that was recommended by AA and since I didn't have a core to start with it was easier.

 

[Dignan]

I just got off the phone with AA and I learned that the adapters for both ends of the transmission will run close to $1000. Plus the $500 for a tranmission and then pay the shop to rebuild it and put it in. Is it worth all that to get the 7000-R4?

 

[Dignan]

Now I just got off the phone with a local transmission shop and he told me that the idea of putting a 700-R4 in an explorer is almost laughable. He told me that before 1989 the 700-R4 on the v6 was just as weak or weaker than the A4LD and that after '89 they changed the bell housing to fit the full-sized 700-R4, but that of course is too big to fit in the Explorer. I'm starting to wonder a little bit about this. I want a heavy duty tranny. I drive off-road and I don't want to have a weak transmission, but I have gone 190,000 on my A4LD, if I can rebuild it using heavy duty bands, maybe get a better torque converter, it might be easier to stick with the A4LD. I am going to call a few different shops and try to find sombody that understands off-roading a little bettter than the last guy, but if the answers are similar I might have to stick with the A4LD.

 

[Dignan]

I just called a really good mechanic that told me he wouldn't put a 700-R4 in his worst enemies car. I am probably taking it in on Monday to have the A4LD rebuilt with a shifter kit and heavy duty bands. If any one be opposed let him speak now or forever hold his peace, or at least until it dies again.

I got 190,000 miles out of it and I have taken it to Moab and other places several times. I know that there have been a lot of problems with that A4LD, but I don't think that I can afford any other options. And if I can get another 190,000 out of it I'll be happy.

 

[410Fortune]

The problems with the A4LD begin with the rebuild......

the A4LD from the factory is great, its the rebuilding that begins the nightmare.
If you can find somebody who knows the A4LD and all the trcks then you might be okay. Your best friend here is the warranty.

Otherwise you will want to look into a C4 3 speed auto, I plan to go C4 when my custom rebuilt A4LD goes south (hopefully in another 150 K miles)
with 33's and 4.10's the OD doesnt do me much good N E ways,.........

 

[SteveVB]

Well, the first guy you spoke with obviously thinks they didnt make the 700r4 for the 60 degree V-6s when they updated it, and that you cant put the updates into the smaller bellhousing models- False. I would look somewhere else.

The 1000 for adapters is high no doubt, but if a built (updates, HD parts to the small case 700) costs 1200 and the adapters are 1000, you are still about the same cost as a built A4LD maybe a couple hundred more. A good rebuild is going to be 16-1900 bucks replacing everything, maybe more.

You are not going to rebuild the A4LD with just a shift kit and bands. New (welded) OD planet, drums, a FORD pump, new boost valve and a few other hard parts will be needed for a reliable rebuild- Do not let them reuse the converter or kkeep the crank bushing.

After all that you still will have a 2.47 first gear, where as with the 700r the first gear is around 3.06, thats a big point in the swap. It will make my 4.11s feel like 4.88s in first - saving a gear change maybe?? how much are gears and install?- $1000 or so?

I havent heard many bad things about well built 700s though either from Jeepers, who have installed them or drag cars that use them, they can be built tough and the number of parts available for them is staggering- whats available for the A4LD? Not much.

It may be something to look into a transfer case that needs no adapter - an NP unit from a Chevy may work, and save some adapter costs.

Just some thoughts.

 

[Diff Whack Daddy]

I am suprised at the price for the adapter as well. I will make a few calls and confirm that for all.

As for the 700-R4, I have a couple of, dare I say Chevy freinds, that run a 700-R4 behind motors pushing 400 horse and 325 ft pounds of torque. He has had no problems with his and rides it very hard. It has a manual valve body, which I was told by bow tie overdrives will cut the life of the tranny in half. He has had that tranny in there for 5 years now and it is pushing 80,000 miles. Since it is a manual valve body, it is always shifting at full pressure which is like making a A4LD shift at 6000 rpm every time. The tranny has no slip in it or any problems.

Since the only difference between the 60 degree and 90 degree 700-R4 is the bell housing, all the same upgraded parts can be used to rebuild it allowing it to handle the abuse.

Call Steve at Bow Tie Overdrives and talk to someone who knows the 700-R4 tranny, not just someone who knows how to rebuild trannies.

 

[Dignan]

Let me know soon, because I told my mechanic I would call him later in the week to confirm a Monday appointment.

If I correctly understood your reply, the original tranny from a 2.8L S10 would be week like I was told, but it could be rebuilt with the same parts as the bigger 700-R4s which are very good transmissions, making the small 700-R4 just as good as the big one. This is what I want to know for sure. Please let me know so that I know what to tell my mechanic.

 

[Diff Whack Daddy]

Okay, here is the skinny on the prices. I just got off the phone with AA and found out that all adapters are separated into two parts, the front and the rear. The front it will include everything needed to adapt a tranny to an engine. The rear kit will include everything needed to adapt a tranny to a transfer case. Any tranny swap will usually require both.

The front adapter for the 4.0L to 60 degree 700-R4 is $443.95. It will include the block to bell housing adapter, which also allows the use of the stock ford starter, and flex plate to torque converter adapter (A4LD torque converter uses 4 small bolts and the 700-R4 uses 3 larger bolts).

The rear adapter for the 700-R4 to BW-1354 is $512.25. It will include a new tail shaft housing and a new output shaft for the 700-R4. This will allow the use of the stock transfer case and will make it a complete bolt in application.

To save money, you can just buy the front kit and try to find a drivers side output shaft t-case that will bolt up to the 700-R4 from a junkyard. I am not sure on the spline counts, but I know that most of the t-cases used with Chevy front independent front suspension vehicles were drivers side front outputs.

To spend the same money and make room for improvements, buy both kits to allow the use of the Atlas II transfer case that will bolt directly to this thanks to the efforts of Rick and others who had this development done earlier. This is my choice as I can only afford so much at one time with my limited Navy pay.

To spend more money and make an awesome drive train, buy the front kit and an Atlas II that will bolt up to the 700-R4 and you are done.

Just so you all know, I had no problems with my A4LD, as a matter of fact, it now resides in my 91 Ex that I bought with a blown tranny. I chose to volunteer for this for two reasons. First was to get more reliable tranny for us, which was supposed to be a Ford AOD, but the bell housing turned out to be to large. Second was to give me more options for t-cases and possibly a Klune V crawler box. So far, after all the research I have done, the 700-R4 will be a more reliable tranny and if the planning is done correctly, a bulletproof drive train can be built. There is obviously more options for the rear end of the 700-R4 than the A4LD making it much more versatile for upgrades in the future which my plans. Some day I will have the most bullet proof drive train allowing me to crawl up a rock at .01mph@2000rpm or to blast through a mud hole at 20mph@4000rpm. My only worry will be rolling. No project vehicle is ever done and yes, sometimes major improvements may cost money, but they will end up paying for themselves in the end.

 

[Diff Whack Daddy]

Originally posted by Dignan
I correctly understood your reply, the original tranny from a 2.8L S10 would be week like I was told, but it could be rebuilt with the same parts as the bigger 700-R4s which are very good transmissions, making the small 700-R4 just as good as the big one. This is what I want to know for sure. Please let me know so that I know what to tell my mechanic.

That is correct. The only difference is in the bell housing. Call Steve at Bowtie Overdrives. Mine will handle 600 HP and600 ft lbs of torque. I don't think a 4.0L could ever produce that..

In summary, yes, the 60 degree 700-R4's can be built as strong as the 90 degrees.

 

[dejello]

* wishes this had been available already *

Sorry, I couldn't wait..........withdraw..........must have explorer......

Just got my A4LD rebuilt to the tune of $1300 (good deal, normal cost would be about $2000 with the better parts)... And now I have no $$ whatsoever... bah...

 

[IAmTodd]

So will this also be an option for the 4R55E? From what I have heard its as weak, and the only difference between the 2 is the 4R55E is electronically controled? By the looks, this will cost around the price of 2 rebuilds(Just guessing).

 

[Shurup]

Originally posted by Diff Whack Daddy
Mine will handle 600 HP and 600 ft lbs of torque. I don't think a 4.0L could ever produce that..

I believe you know member Klowns who installed a custom made turbo in his EX. He got his engine gebiult with stronger parts so it can handle up to 22 lb of boost. I have no idea how much HP and torque will he have but no doubt he will be the one closest to the numbers you gave.