Bkennedy's SAS and Rebuild Thread

[BKennedy]

I noticed my aftermarket transmission drain plug has somehow loosened and was leaking on the 700R4. The only way to tighten it is to remove the pan. I pulled it apart and am waiting for the new LubeLocker pan gasket to come in (I am on a LubeLocker kick lately, bought 3 for diffs too). Already bought a new filter since its apart. The drain plug is a B&M type, hollow bolt with an outside gasket. The actual drain is also my trans temp sensor. I have a thicker than normal steel pan. I have a skid plate that covers the bottom of the transmission from front to rear with about 2.5" of clearance.

I have a few options:
I could get a new gasket for the plug and reinstall, since it took about five years and a few uses to start leaking.
I could purchase a new aluminum pan with a built in plug for anywhere between $50 - OMG, that's expensive. The only issue with this option is that all the pans I have seen that are a reasonable price have the drain straight out the bottom, and I would not be able to mount my temp sender in the drain plug. Afraid I might high-center on the skid plate, which might push it into the sender and there goes the trans fluid.
Or, I could weld the outside bolt head directly to the pan. I am not sure it would work or last due to the difference in thickness of the bolt head and pan material. Am also concerned about warping the pan and causing it to leak. I thought about tacking the inside nut to the inside of the pan so if it started leaking again I could tighten it, but it would melt the gasket.

Recommendations??

 

[FR-425]

Use Loctite 620 for automatic transmission applications. That'll keep it from com'n loose.

 

[FR-425]

Hey, Did Mike put locker's in that jeep yet?

 

[RockRanger]

Try resealing it. If it doesn't work then give welding it up a shot. At that point you aren't out anything.

 

[BKennedy]

Hey, Did Mike put locker's in that jeep yet?

It already has a ARB up front and Detroit rear. The ARB works intermittent, I think its got a small seal leak. Its in the shop getting transmission, transfer case, and diff work, and maintenance, because Mike really isn't into maintenance. His father-in-law owns a general auto repair shop or it wouldn't ever get fixed.

Try resealing it. If it doesn't work then give welding it up a shot. At that point you aren't out anything.

Use Loctite 620 for automatic transmission applications. That'll keep it from com'n loose.

Is that the red stuff? Because there was red I picked out of the threads.

Good suggestions. I will reseal it with a new gasket and the 620 and see if that works.

 

[josh40601]

ifyou are pulling the pan anyway, go ahead and tack the nut on the inside of the trans. If not, just reseal it until you do drop the pan

 

[FR-425]

IIRC Loctite 620 is green. Like that nasty stuff Ford uses on the drive shaft bolts.

 

[BKennedy]

I went over to talk to Eldon at Poway Transmission today. Old guy, old school hot rodder and sand drag Jeeper. Knows everything there is to know about 700R4 transmissions. He has a Drag Jeep with a 600HP 427 bolted up to a 700R4. He has the same front axle that I have in the Explorer, and hasn't blown it even while running paddles. I always love talking to the old car/truck/off-road guys, and he is all three.

I took my trans pan with the leaking plug to him. He says tack welding the nut to the inside so I can snug it up if it loosens again without dropping the pan is a good idea. Gave me a new drain plug seal washer, and a new trans filter.

I asked Eldon a bunch of questions about my cooler line routing to make sure it was hooked up right, and it is, except he says the "tube and fin" type cooler I have isn't worth a crap (his words). He told me to get the biggest Hayden "plate" type cooler that will fit. It slows the fluid down and along with more surface area helps it cool. According to him, Hayden makes better coolers than most aftermarket race type coolers, at a much lower price point. Ordered a model 678, which is for heavy trucks and class "C" type RV's. I will see if I can mount it with the other cooler in series.

Eldon said to try that for a while, and consider deleting the radiator connection. The trans runs about 150-170 normally, but goes up a little higher when rock crawling in lower gears and goes up to 250 or so for short durations up long grades on the highway. Part of that might be the higher engine coolant temps with the 4.0 than the engines that trans was designed to be bolted onto. I don't have to worry about pre-heating the trans fluid because I am not usually in below zero temps, and am running synthetic fluid. I think I am going to delete the radiator connection to see what happens. I would only need to cut the hot or outgoing line and if I'm careful, I could easily put it back together with a compression fitting. It would also be one less connection to leak. It could also help the engine stay cooler on those long grades.

I also asked him about an aluminum finned pan. He said at the speeds I am usually off-roading, along with the skid plate covering it, it would not make any difference. Will see when I get it back together.

My list of mods is getting short:
37" tires and 17" wheels. Requires new rear leafs from National that push the axle back 1" to help clear the tires. All this together will cost over $3000. Have you looked at 37" tire prices lately??
New rear shocks that have adjustable valving.
Redo the seats, or cover them up. I have been looking at GT seat covers. My neighbor puts them on all of his vehicles and they look great. I like the Endura fabric covers. Will probably do seats before the other stuff because of $$.

 

[BKennedy]

Tacked the drain plug nut to the inside of the pan. Waiting on the LubeLocker pan gasket and new cooler to arrive.

The catalytic converter is only about three inches from the passenger side of the transmission. I figured out I can fab up a heat shield that is welded to the skid plate. It can run the entire length of the cat and should keep some heat away from the trans. Some of the heat will get transferred to the skid plate, but its a big plate and 3/16" thick. Its double that thickness where the heat shield will be attached. I will have to do that after I get the pan back in place. Seems like every time I do one fix, three more appear.

 

[FR-425]

Adding a reservoir tank to increase trans fluid capacity will help, especially if you delete the radiator (which will cost you about 1.5 quarts capacity)

Do you have room for a deeper pan?

 

[FR-425]

We have a rig that uses a transmission driven PTO to drive a hydraulic pump at 6000 psi through an Alison automatic. The Alison trans can haul the truck around without issue, but when running the PTO it would overheat. We added a 5 gallon reservoir tank, no additional cooling and it solved the problem.

The point being; the capacity for cooling is directly related to the volume of fluid.

 

[BKennedy]

Adding a reservoir tank to increase trans fluid capacity will help, especially if you delete the radiator (which will cost you about 1.5 quarts capacity)

Do you have room for a deeper pan?

I have a little room, but don't want the trans pan to be any lower. I am going to try to fit it with the two coolers to keep as much fluid volume as possible and still delete the radiator. That 700R4 holds about 12 quarts.

 

[josh40601]

What tire and wheel combo are you looking at?

Are you against just moving your centerpin back 1" on your current springs? I don't think a regular drill or press will drill through spring steel, but a mill should. I'm pretty sure that's what Dan did when he redid the springs on the back of mine

As for seats, are you going to keep the factories, or swap out for suspension seats?

 

[BKennedy]

I am not sure about tire and wheel combo, but have had very good luck with the Goodyear MTR's and BFG KM2's (current tires). Want to get a set of Walker Evans wheels off a EF member, but don't have the money right now.

Don't trust moving the center pin back, think it creates a weak point. I think my leaf springs are too stiff and cause rebound issues, and would like to get a new set made for my rig. Again, not in the budget right now.

I like my seats; they are comfortable and keep me in the seat, they are just worn. Am going to talk to a local shop this week about re-doing the seats.

 

[FR-425]

I have a factory "plate" style cooler in the parts bin.

 

[BKennedy]

Got the new plate trans cooler installed but not plumbed. First pic is the space I have to work with. I am keeping the tube and fin cooler in place because its already there, it helps cool, and it holds quite a bit of fluid.

I used 3/4x1/8" thick flat bar for the supports. I drilled holes, then welded some 1/4x20 screws on the back side of the flat bar to turn them into studs. I painted the majority of the supports, taping off the ends for welding. Tacked the supports in place with a carefully wrapped cooler bolted to the supports to make sure it will all fit. Next, I finish welded the ends of the supports, then painted it all up.

Of course, I had to move the battery isolator solenoid, and reroute the wiring, and rewire the bumper mounted LED light bars. Added a in-line plug to both light bars so removing them again will be easier.

I Isolated the cooler with thick rubber washers.

I unbolted the radiator side of the transmission lines, and removed the adaptors so nothing is sticking out that can be broken off. Still need to figure out where to cut the hot line so it will use the least amount of hose, be pointed in the right direction, and be easy to put back together with a coupler if I decide to go back to the radiator. I should have it finished by tomorrow.

I also noticed a weak link, so to speak: The rubber trans hose goes under the radiator to get to the coolers. If I use the front bumper as a slide to get up on a rock or ledge (have done that several times), the potential is there for a sharply angled rock to get up in the gap between the bumper mount and the cross member that used to have the anti-sway bar attached. If it does, it could crush the hose against the lower radiator support, cutting the hose. I need to decide if its worth addressing, since the lines have been there forever and nothing has happened yet. Doesn't look like anything has hit that far back yet.

There was a delay in receiving the LubeLocker trans pan gasket because they had to make one. I should get that tomorrow or Thursday.

 

[BKennedy]

Got the lines plumbed, and plugged the holes in the radiator. I did not know this, but the radiator is threaded with good old 3/8" pipe threads. Made it easy to find brass plugs at the hardware store.

The only place the hot line was pointed in the right direction was directly under the fan. I always use two hose clamps when I attach soft lines to hard lines.

In the above pic, you can see the gap I was talking about in the previous post. Its only about four inches wide, and I have decided to not worry about it. I used two clamps to get the lines tight against the radiator support.

Pic of front.

I routed the lines as follows:
Hot/outgoing trans line to top of tube and fin cooler. Tube and fin cooler to plate cooler. Plate cooler to return. Its untested because I haven't received the pan gasket yet. As soon as I get that, I can button it up, check the lines for leakage, and put the grill back in place.

 

[FR-425]

I think this is going to work!

 

[BKennedy]

I got the pan back together today, right after the brown truck arrived with the gasket. It took about a quart more fluid than before, so I think its good as far as volume goes. Would like to put hard lines in there some day, but for now, I think I will run it. I didn't get time for a test drive, but I let it idle in park for about 30 minutes and it didn't get warm. Should be able to take it for a drive tomorrow.

Had a scare while torqueing the pan bolts down (12 foot pounds) after I let it warm up a little. The bolts that hold the shift linkage in place have spacers so they are a little longer than the rest. Never seemed long enough to me, and when I was tightening one of them, it started to slip. Oh Crap, I thought, I have stripped the case. I pulled the bolt, and the gasket held. I just happened to have two longer flanged metric bolts in my bolt drawer. Replaced it with the new bolt, and it torqued down just fine. Replaced the other shift linkage bolt for good measure.

 

[FR-425]

Use Permatex Aluminum anti-seize lubricant for aluminum cast to insure you do not over-torque.

Hind sight is 20/20