(Brake calipers, "death wobble?", shaky steering) Please help!! My baby is sick!!!! :(

[MistahYebba]

All is well here, thanks. I noticed you are in Florida. Did the storm get to where you are?

Luckily no storm here; opposite side of the state

I like to imagine that the bits of drizzling rain we got throughout the day today were being flung hundreds of miles from the hurricane
Itself hahaha

 

[MistahYebba]

How crazy do you have to grease the pins up? I bought a little tube and used half on each side. Should it be a whole tube for each caliper then???

Furthermore, I am putting these dang slide pins in correctly, I hope...

I just hammer it in until the little "bump tabs" are equally in the front and back of the calipers.

Pretend you spin a rotor like the wheel of fortune...

If you press the brake, the rotor should stop spinning...

If you let go of the brake, you should be able to spin it freely again, right?

Seems like the caliper doesn't "go back in" right away on the passenger side and is still applying some braking power

 

[92exp4x4]

Ok this is making more sense. The date stamp of the first post is Wednesday at 8. I just noticed it was last edited then. My phone displays this being only a couple days old.

No problem BTW, I'd like to help you figure this out.

 

[92exp4x4]

How crazy do you have to grease the pins up? I bought a little tube and used half on each side. Should it be a whole tube for each caliper then???

Furthermore, I am putting these dang slide pins in correctly, I hope...

I just hammer it in until the little "bump tabs" are equally in the front and back of the calipers.

Pretend you spin a rotor like the wheel of fortune...

If you press the brake, the rotor should stop spinning...

If you let go of the brake, you should be able to spin it freely again, right?

Seems like the caliper doesn't "go back in" right away on the passenger side and is still applying some braking power

The grease just allows the caliper to move slightly in the steering knuckle. It won't matter how little or much you use unless it gets on the pads.

The pins could be upside down. Look at the slot straight on with the caliper in place. One end of the hole will be pointed, the other a little flat. The pin will resemble this shape. If it's misinstalled in the hole then it may stick in the knuckle and lock the brake.

The brake may drag slightly by hand when applied and released. It will never totally release (not touch) the rotor, but it should never take more than slight effort to rotate with brake released.

 

[MistahYebba]

The grease just allows the caliper to move slightly in the steering knuckle. It won't matter how little or much you use unless it gets on the pads.

The pins could be upside down. Look at the slot straight on with the caliper in place. One end of the hole will be pointed, the other a little flat. The pin will resemble this shape. If it's misinstalled in the hole then it may stick in the knuckle and lock the brake.

The brake may drag slightly by hand when applied and released. It will never totally release (not touch) the rotor, but it should never take more than slight effort to rotate with brake released.

Yeah... so I'm right to say something is wrong because she let off of the brake and it was hard to turn the rotor still. It probably takes 5 minutes of not pressing the brake before the rotor spins freely with no resistance again. What makes a caliper piston retract to resting position this slowly?

However, I don't think a sticking caliper would make a knocking sound... especially one that becomes more apparent as I turn the steering wheel left


Also, as for pins I totally understand, they make a sort of triangle shape

Am I right to say that the top and bottom pins should put in opposite directions? For example, the top pin has the pointed end upwards, but the bottom pin goes in with the pointed end downwards? This is how I did it for both sides.

 

[92exp4x4]

The piston seal is square shaped. That square shape gets distorted and acts like a spring to return the piston when pressure is released on it. Think of an o-ring. If you twist it in your fingers, it wants to return its shape. Imagine it pulling on the piston's surface as it returns it's shape.

A slow release can be caused by a blockage in the system. I have seen hoses degrade internally. The rubber layers come apart and can create a "check valve" not allowing pressure to go back to master.

If the caliper is moving within the knuckle it could make noise. Especially if the rotor is warped even slightly. The caliper floats on the rotor while braking and will be forced to move by it's shape. The pins allow it to float in the knuckle. If they are loose to begin with, then you have metal parts hitting each other. When turning, the side load can cause movement of the rotor around the bearings, moving the caliper, etc. You would be amazed what parts will flex and move while in operation.

I believe you are correct in the direction of the points of the pins.

 

[1991 sploder]

Is it possable that you put on the calipers on the wrong sides and backwards?

 

[MistahYebba]

The piston seal is square shaped. That square shape gets distorted and acts like a spring to return the piston when pressure is released on it. Think of an o-ring. If you twist it in your fingers, it wants to return its shape. Imagine it pulling on the piston's surface as it returns it's shape.

A slow release can be caused by a blockage in the system. I have seen hoses degrade internally. The rubber layers come apart and can create a "check valve" not allowing pressure to go back to master.

If the caliper is moving within the knuckle it could make noise. Especially if the rotor is warped even slightly. The caliper floats on the rotor while braking and will be forced to move by it's shape. The pins allow it to float in the knuckle. If they are loose to begin with, then you have metal parts hitting each other. When turning, the side load can cause movement of the rotor around the bearings, moving the caliper, etc. You would be amazed what parts will flex and move while in operation.

I believe you are correct in the direction of the points of the pins.

You ready for the weekend man?? My 9-5 kills me.. haha... :/

Thanks again for all the responses.

I want to do the same "rotor spin" test with my front left tire....

Let the truck sit without the brakes/brake pedal being touched AT ALL for like 10 minutes, then give the rotor a good spin and see how free it is.

Next, have an assistant hold down the brake pedal while I try to spin the rotor to make sure the brakes are nice and firm.....

Then have the assistant release the brake pedal.... and see if the brakes have returned to the normal spin.....



Because as it stands... my front RIGHT tire is the one I did this test on... and after letting go of the brake pedal.... it still felt like the dang brakes were being pressed.

Now imagine this happening while I am driving???? The whole time, the one tire with working brakes would be spinning freely, while the other one would have a constant braking being applied to it! I feel like this would definitely cause a shake, wobble, etc.

I even have more info to support the possibility!

My alignment is now mysteriously "centered" again...

Before replacing my calipers and brake pads, I would have to hold my steering wheel about 20 degrees left to drive in a straight line.

Now, the steering is almost dead center (albeit while its shaking and wobbling) to drive in a straight line.

This implies that extra braking is being applied to one of my tires and therefore "evening" it out.... giving the illusion that my alignment has been fixed.

You catching my drift?


So the next thing to address is.... am I going to be able to do anything to make this brand new caliper's piston being all sticky and constantly applying pressure to my rotor?

 

[MistahYebba]

Is it possable that you put on the calipers on the wrong sides and backwards?

I want to say that it is not possible that I Put the calipers on the wrong sides and backwards only because if that was the case, the brake lines would not easily attach... the brake lines are a SQUARE shape that you place against the caliper groove, and then bolt it in.

That square shape wouldn't line up with the caliper if it wasn't the right side.. right?

but I do want to say................... I put them on the wrong sides at first, and then swapped them.

Wouldn't it be funny if I wrongly that I put them on the wrong sides?

but seriously, my first paragraph still stands.

 

[1991 sploder]

Im pretty sure it is possable... hmmm never tried it but the bleeder screw would be at the bottom of the caliper if it was...

 

[92exp4x4]

You are correct, it's kind of difficult but they can be installed on wrong sides. They would never bleed out though. The screws have to be up to bleed properly.

If it was pulling and the opposite side brake sticks, definitely your steering will straighten out. The brake pull cancels out the steering pull.

As far as what to do about the sticking.. you will need to find out why. Do your test and see if it sticks. Loosen the hose banjo bolt at the caliper. If it releases, you have a blockage in the line. If not, then the caliper itself is bad. Replace the line or caliper as needed.

 

[MistahYebba]

HEy there!!!!

Update of the day

Trying to narrow it down to either:

1. A sticking caliper causing 1 side to brake and the other to not brake

2. A ball joint (how could the symptoms of a bad ball joint only show after I replaced my caliper and brake pads?!)

3. Wheel bearings (same question applies for this one....)

4. A curse has been put on my Ex

Check out this video and tell me what you think about the play in the wheel.... also, note the sound it makes.... rattle rattle ding ding lol

 

[timtimtimajim]

That almost looks a bad tie rod to me. Either that or the spindle nut could be loose or lugs could be loose. But the first place I would look is tie rods.

 

[1991 sploder]

Check your ball joint attached to the spindle their needs to be a crown nut and a cotter pin also I would not drive that car, even at 5mph you need to make sure you have all these ball joints tight, the one marked in blue is most suspect should only take 10 min to check and tighten if tight already/ alot of play its bad. heres a pic.

 

[MistahYebba]

Little update

I know I shouldn't be driving but I have been slow... also helps in gathering more info to diagnose.

It has started to pull HARDCORE to the right. When I say hardcore I mean, I could do a 90 degree right turn just by letting off of the steering wheel.

If something is pulling to the right very bad, what does that tell you in terms of what side is faulting??

Can you explain or provide good sources on how I can check the following components?

1. Inner and outer tie rod ends
2. Upper and lower ball joints
3. CV Axle
4. Wheel bearings

 

[92exp4x4]

I would be looking at the right side. Your brake is probably locking up worse than it was.

Tie rods are checked visually while moving them. Look for play or sloppiness. Have someone work the steering while you watch. It won't take much to see it, Use a pry bar to lift up under the tire while its jacked up to check ball joints. You are looking for upward play at the steering knuckle. You do not have any CV axles as the truck is 2wd so you dont have to worry about this. Also the 4x4s have universal joints at the wheel ends, not constant velocity joints. Newer explorers use CVs. Wheel bearing play will be noticed as looseness in the wheel/tire to the knuckle.

I hope this helps.

 

[MistahYebba]

Good morning!!!

Got another update for you all, for both the left and right sides... (I will do separate posts for each side's breakdown)

My ball joints, tie rod ends, and wheel bearings all appear to be in great shape!

I know there was a lot of play in the tire in that video, including a "tinking" sound, but I believe I found the reasons why there is play, and they are not concerning to me.

---------------------------------

Here is the left (driver's side) breakdown:

I don't know what this part is called:

but I know it connects directly to the steering wheel. You know how when you turn the engine off and center the steering wheel, and it locks in place? Well, I can still wiggle the steering wheel a bit left and right and that is what I believe the play to be... not a ball joint or tie rod.

Here is a video demonstrating the play in the tire being associated with the steering wheel locking mechanism!



As for the "tinking" sound... that is just the back brake pad moving up and down a bit. Is it okay for it to be loose back there? I don't think it's a problem. I didn't put the retaining clips on that come with the brake pads when I installed them but I don't see that being a problem?

Here is a video demonstrating the brake pad being the source of the sound.



---------------------------------

Next, I moved on to the wheel bearing.

After taking everything apart, it honestly looks great. Plenty of grease; it spins well, and the wheel bearing itself looks flawless.

Here is how it spins after I took the wheel bearing apart, inspected everything, and then put it back together.
Looks good.



Here's how it spins once I put the caliper on... not too bad I suppose?



So as you see, everything seems to be pretty good on the driver's side.

 

[MistahYebba]

Here is the left (passenger's side) breakdown:

I did the same tests on the ball joints, tie rods, etc.... play in the tire seems to be minimal. I don't see anything wrong.

Next came the wheel bearings...

Everything looked exactly like the driver's side. Nice shiny wheel bearings, round and spin pretty well.

The only difference I found on this side was the seal stayed on the spindle when I pulled the rotor off. In other words, the seal was not firmly 'sealed' on the outer bearing.

The seal is VERY easy to seperate from the outer bearing on backside of the rotor. Should this be something to look into?

Here is a video demonstrating how easy it is to lift of the seal!



After putting everything back on, once again, besides the fact that maybe the seal could be on there more snug, this side seems good too...



After putting everything back together on the passenger's side, here is a video of me spinning the rotor.



Compare this to the driver's side and you will see a HUGE difference.........

This narrows it down to either a bad caliper, or a clogged up brake hose...

Check out this video of how badly it is pulling to the right... going only 5MPH or so.



I strongly believe I have narrowed it down to getting a crappy caliper from NAPA...

Tell me your thoughts!

And make it a great Sunday!

Thanks in advance everyone.

 

[natenkiki2004]

To me, that all looks good. A couple notes;
Do install the anti-rattle clips on the brake pads but install them on the bottom as the pads will rotate up and forward. They take up the slack to prevent the pads from moving like that. They can also reduce noise, hence the name.

That joint you mentioned in the steering section is a rag joint. Explorers used to use u-joints but a rag joint smooths things out and might be some kind of safety item as well. The play seems normal. The key with doing a 9 and 3 o'clock wiggle test is moving it slightly, not as hard as you can. If you don't feel slop before the tie rod moves then it's good to go. Did you do that test with both front wheels off the ground? Try it again but with one wheel off the ground. This will prevent the other wheel from turning which should eliminate the steering wheel from moving as long as there's no slop in the tie rods and drag link joints.

Rotors spinning look good, moreso for the driver's side. Passenger seems loose (spinning too much) without the rotor and a little too tight with the caliper. Not overly so but enough that it seems odd to me.

 

[swshawaii]

With all due respect Nate, does this rotor look "good"?