(Brake calipers, "death wobble?", shaky steering) Please help!! My baby is sick!!!! :(

[natenkiki2004]

With all due respect Nate, does this rotor look "good"?

I didn't zoom in on that picture but, yea, something's up with that. Like something got stuck on the pad and ate in or the rotor is getting really thin?

 

[MistahYebba]

Well sure it's not the best looking rotor we've all seen but I know it's not the problem. They are in good shape given their age.

If anything is digging it up it's driving the truck in its current state with a jammed up caliper.

I'm going to replace that sides brake hose today and do another thorough bleed...

Then go from there; to rule out a bad rubber flex hose.

Wouldn't be surprised if we see results...

 

[swshawaii]

Loosen the hose banjo bolt at the caliper. If it releases, you have a blockage in the line. If not, then the caliper itself is bad. Replace the line or caliper as needed.

Well sure it's not the best looking rotor we've all seen but I know it's not the problem. They are in good shape given their age.

If anything is digging it up it's driving the truck in its current state with a jammed up caliper.

I'm going to replace that sides brake hose today and do another thorough bleed...

Then go from there; to rule out a bad rubber flex hose.

Wouldn't be surprised if we see results...

Unless the hoses have been replaced and given their age, they're long overdue anyway. However, I'd test them first.

If OK, apply savings to new rotors. Are either of the front rims getting hot? Pads inspected? Caliper brackets tight?

 

[1991 sploder]

watched all the videos like 5 x and looked at the pictures its cursed img 3588 video is caliper sticking consider trying the old ones that brake line is a pain .

 

[MistahYebba]

Hi all...

Finished replacing the passenger's side brake hose hoping that my old brake hose was just clogged up and causing the caliper to stick (fat chance)....

No difference at all!

Whatever is making it pull so hard to the right like in this video is what the issue is.... as you see, with every rotation of the wheel, it pulls a little bit more to the right, little by little (or lots by lots if I'm going fast!)



As you can imagine, the pulling gets worse the faster I go.... and I was only going 5MPH in this video!

1. I mean.... I guess it still could technically be a bad caliper... the caliper definitely is sticking in this video. Is it not????



2. Tie rods, ball joints, or some other suspension-related part? Even though it passes my own personal "wiggle test".... I suppose I could be looking past something... any suggestions in this area?

3. Alignment - been out of alignment for some time now.... don't alignment shops make sure there is no play in your tires before they will agree to do an alignment? Furthermore, would it being out of alignment cause it to pull like that, little by little with each rotation of the wheel?

4. Power Steering - It sounds unlikely to me.... but could this pulling somehow, in any way, be related to a leaky gearbox or other power steering component?

5. Warped Rotor(s) - Yes.... I know my rotors look a little beat up. Is it impossible to tell that a rotor is warped just by looking at it? Would it be worth it to take it in to get "cut" or whatever you call it, where they shave it down to be smooth again? Do they charge for this? Would I be better off getting new ones?

I don't want to throw rotors at it due to their price.... and have it NOT be the issue.... that would suck.

I truly do think that the sticking caliper is the issue, but I was really just hoping replacing the brake hose would fix it. Due to the annoying situation of having to replace the caliper again...

My issue here is; I already returned my core calipers (the old ones) and if I tell the store that the new calipers are defective and they give me my money back; what will I do about the core ones? Then I won't have "core" calipers at all!

Any tips?

 

[MistahYebba]

Oh yeah and one more thing;

no one ever commented on if it was okay that the seal just comes off so easily like this for the outer bearing on the right rotor?

 

[timtimtimajim]

Yes you can't look at a rotor to determine that it is "warped." You can tell usually under braking through the brake pedal and even sometimes the steering wheel. You may be able to have them resurfaced depending on how much material they have left and how deep the grooves on them are. You will be charged to have them resurfaced, though it is much cheaper than buying new rotors. If they can't be resurfaced it would be a good idea to get new rotors.

It really looks like you're going to have to get a new caliper. Though I'm not really sure how they work the whole core thing with returns.

To clarify, that is a wheel seal that is coming out of your rotor on the INNER bearing. It should not come out that easy. Is it something that is causing these other issues you're having? No. But it wouldn't hurt to go ahead and put a new one on. They are easy to replace and inexpensive.

 

[MistahYebba]

Yes you can't look at a rotor to determine that it is "warped." You can tell usually under braking through the brake pedal and even sometimes the steering wheel. You may be able to have them resurfaced depending on how much material they have left and how deep the grooves on them are. You will be charged to have them resurfaced, though it is much cheaper than buying new rotors. If they can't be resurfaced it would be a good idea to get new rotors.

It really looks like you're going to have to get a new caliper. Though I'm not really sure how they work the whole core thing with returns.

To clarify, that is a wheel seal that is coming out of your rotor on the INNER bearing. It should not come out that easy. Is it something that is causing these other issues you're having? No. But it wouldn't hurt to go ahead and put a new one on. They are easy to replace and inexpensive.

Hey Tim, thanks for the response!

I figured a simple seal wouldn't cause the issue either... and thanks for clarifying the outer vs. inner bearing; I assumed "outer" because it is the larger bearing, therefore sort of "surrounding" the smaller bearing.... which lead me to assume outer and inner.. Anywho!

I'm sure the core charge would be worked in somehow; something I am annoyed about is returning this caliper and having them tell me it is too "beat up" now to be "returned"..... in other words blaming me for it's defects.

I say this, because hammering the pins out a hundred times to look at the innards has damaged the black paint on the caliper around that area......

I know you probably don't work at an auto parts store so I'm not expecting you to have any input on that... just something that is annoying to think about.

Another thing is, I have to take my caliper off to go and return it! And then I can't get to a different auto parts store to get a better one xD

I'm not sure I want to risk it again and get the same model caliper from the same dang store..... any thoughts on this? Where do you get your parts and have you ever had bad experiences with defective parts?

AutoZone vs. O'Reilly's vs. Advance vs. NAPA?

 

[92exp4x4]

I would take it back and return it as a defective part. They will get you a new one. I would do this as many times as needed until you get a working part. I worked at autozone for a bit, and the company I work for now has a huge parts department. We get bad parts all the time, regardless of the brand, new and remanufactured.

Any parts store worth any thing will take up for their customer. Take it back and trade it for another. Just tell them it's sticking and you want another one. I think they will help you out.

The grooves in your rotor were made by pad rivets at one time most likely. Someone probably let the pads get to thin and they ground into the rotors. Your rotors are definitely worn. You can try turning them, but they will probably warp again. The thinner they are the less they will dissipate heat and heat is what ruins them.

Have you tried getting parts online? It's so much cheaper. Check eBay or rockauto or even Amazon. You might be surprised.

I would replace that seal too. If it's loose, it will allow dirt and water in which will destroy the bearings.

 

[timtimtimajim]

I'm not sure I want to risk it again and get the same model caliper from the same dang store..... any thoughts on this? Where do you get your parts and have you ever had bad experiences with defective parts?

AutoZone vs. O'Reilly's vs. Advance vs. NAPA?

If I recall (and correct me on this if I'm wrong) but you bought new calipers for both sides. Right? You got one good one and one bad one. Personally I would give them another shot and go back and try them again. Sometimes you get defective parts. It happens. I've learned that all too well with my job. I work maintenance and there has been several times where I got new parts that were bad out of the box. So yeah sometimes stuff like that happens. Though I do have to say I've never had that issue with parts for my Explorer. But honestly I would go back and give them another shot.

I've had varying different experiences with different parts stores.
I don't have a NAPA near so I can't speak for them.
The couple times I've been in the AutoZone near me the customer service was terrible, so I refuse to shop there.
Advanced has been pretty good with customer service and their parts are fairly good quality. I just don't go to Advanced because the nearest one is at least 20 minutes from my house. (I live out in the country so I have to drive into town)
O'Reilly's I go to all of the time. There's one 5 minutes from my house. They always have great customer service and actually know be by my first name (don't if that's good or bad ha!) And the parts I get from them are always good quality.

So I go to O'Reilly's for parts that I feel comfortable saving some money on. However when it comes to things like brakes or certain engine components I purchase off of RockAuto. Parts store brands are great for saving money, but sometimes the quality isn't always the best. Even though RockAuto costs more, because a lot of what they sell is name brand or OEM, I don't mind paying that extra because I know what I'm getting is good quality.

Hope that kinda helps.

 

[MistahYebba]

Hey friends, happy Monday!

I want to start by repeating how grateful and appreciative I am for all of your input and help!! All of you!!! Wouldn’t be anywhere without you guys….. So thanks again!

This morning I woke up nice and early and drove to O’Reilly’s (love that place…)

Picked up some new calipers and went back home.

Did the swap (thinking that the new calipers from NAPA were bad) and then drove to NAPA to return the “defective” ones.

Unfortunately, I did not have much hope at this point either….

Before I even put the tires back on, after swapping the calipers and bleeding the brakes, I could already feel a bit more resistance in the passenger side rotor when compared to the driver’s side…. UGH! The only thing left that could even make there be uneven resistance are the rotors!

With that said, I am starting to shift my attention back to something we are overlooking….

Sure, maybe there is a bit more resistance in the spinning of the rotor on the passenger’s side, but I think there is a bigger, underlying issue we are looking past…. So let’s lay it out again!

1. We ruled out a clogged up brake hose, and likely ruled out a sticking caliper, considering this would make 3 sets of ‘defective calipers’ and that is unlikely….

2. I suppose my rotor could be “warped”... but I do not think it would cause issues like what I am experiencing, so let’s forget about that for now as well.

3. Ball Joints, Tie Rods, and anything closely related to those parts…. I suppose could be “off”.... But I think if is were THOSE that were causing issues like what I am having, that it would be more obvious that they were bad. I am not seeing any obvious play in any of those parts... so I am tucking this aside for right this second. Any additional tests you may recommend, please let me know.

4. Alignment is DEFINITELY off, probably what most would consider “a lot”... I can change lanes to the right while still holding my steering wheel to the left. When driving straight down the highway, my wheel is easily 20 degrees to the left to keep in my lane. Would this cause a shake, a “knocking sound”, etc?


5. Master cylinder - I feel like it’s unlikely, but could my master cylinder be giving me some trouble and causing the right side caliper to have too much pressure?

6. POWER STEERING -- this is what I want to touch on again!

Please do not forget…. I have always had a power steering leak. When I was changing my calipers, remember I mentioned I turn the steering wheel completely to one side with the engine off? That was gross….. Made me cringe. I lost 50% or more of the power steering fluid that was in my system by doing that.. It also made an UGLY sound. I have a feeling that the sound I heard was the sound of something breaking and crying for help.

Now, the real question is, what would have to be wrong with my power steering system in order for something like what I am experiencing to happen? I know a few of you have mentioned a leak will suck in air…

What would a broken, faulty, or just leaking steering gearbox do to the driveability? My steering wheel isn’t hard to turn, but what I “THINK” is the gearbox is where my leak has always been. What if turning the steering wheel with the engine off and causing that “explosion” of fluid further ruined my gearbox and now I am experiencing this issue?

How hard is a gearbox to replace? Would it even cause symptoms like this? Wouldn’t it cause other symptoms that should be present if that is really the issue??


I drove to a few places this morning looking to get an alignment but they were all too busy to take me in a rush… I had to get to work.

So, just know that an alignment is pending.

Thanks again for all your help! MAKE IT A GREAT WEEK!

 

[MistahYebba]

Video update as well, to provide some more visuals... hope it helps!

 

[natenkiki2004]

That has to be a badly warped rotor. It can't be power steering because that system can easily overpower the caster angle which is what returns your wheel to center after a turn. What I see is a consistent force based on vehicle speed, consistent with a wheel rotation. You don't have 4x4 so that pretty much means bearings, rotor, or a heavily damaged wheel. I don't know that an alignment shop would see this or that an alignment would correct for this. If you were seeing sloppy steering linkages, you would have tight steering or have to hold the wheel in order to drive straight, it would consistently pull to one side. That's different than what you're seeing because yours is a tug every time the wheel goes around, not a constant force. It wouldn't be a ball joint either, they just tend to clunk around on bumps. They might still be bad, seeing you had slop when you tugged on the tire but that would be a separate issue.

Try this;
Jack one front side up off the ground and rotate the wheel by hand. You want to find the side with intermittent resistance or wobble. I'll be damned if both sides track straight and smooth.

 

[92exp4x4]

Check the metal line to the right side brake hose. See if its pinched. That is all that is left other than replacing rotors Swap your rotors side to side. See if it pulls to the other side.

I agree with nate, this is a brake issue. I'm nearly positive of it. An alignment will help a little, but the wheel/hub/brake/ rotating assembly has to be causing this.

 

[MistahYebba]

Guys I am dying over here.

I woke up at 730AM and did the caliper swap to the new ones from O'reillys as I mentioned... no fix.

Went to work all day until 8PM, and then went straight to O'reilly's again after work and got new rotors and put the new rotors on in their parking lot.

I was instantly disappointed after seeing that the DRIVERS SIDE rotor was nearly impossible to rotate. DRIVER'S SIDE NOW?! Meanwhile, the passenger side that was normally sticking was doing pretty well.....

Brand new rotors and still having the issue confirms to me what I thought at first; that this seems to be less of warped rotors, and more of whatever the heck is causing my calipers to stick...

What in the actual eff is going on here?

This leads me to think that the master cylinder is shot.......... but would it be so unsure about which side it wants to mess up?! Ugh, I totally sound like your standard DIY guy throwing money at every part, but the thing is; there is nothing left it can even be?!?!?!?



So here's the thing.

I took the tires off,
took the caliper slide pins out,
suspended the calipers without disconnecting or opening up the brake system at all,
took the dust cap off,
cotter pin out,
nut retainer out,
nut out,
nut washer out,
inner bearing out,
rotor off,
backside of rotor, took the seal out, took the outer bearing out

sprayed new rotors with brake cleaner and let them air dry for plenty of time.

repeated the whole process in reverse but used all the same little parts and bearings (except new outer bearing seals and cotter pins)

I will say I did not grease it up probably like it should be greased...I "recycled" with my finger what I could and placed it where I felt it was needed, but let's just forget about that part for now because these rotors are coming off again ASAP.

after reassembling each side with the new rotors, they spun pretty cleanly...

however, putting the calipers on each side was a tight fit. used PLENTY of slide pin grease for these suckers.

In other words, the piston of the caliper left little to no "wiggle" room to fit the brake pad and rotor in between....

in other other words; it was a tight fit to get the caliper on there. So tight, in fact, that it required a LOT of hand strength to turn my driver's side rotor.

Should I have disconnected the hose from the caliper and used a C-clamp to push the piston in before doing this, therefore leaving more room?

Anyway......... I was really hoping starting the engine and pressing the brakes would clean things up... ya know, let the piston retract a bit and allow some wiggle room so it could spin more freely... but nope.

So I said fk it and decided to give bleeding the brakes a shot.

I did the classic 1 man brake bleed job.... tight fitting tube connected to the bleeder valve, and the tube goes into a bottle filled with a bit of brake fluid at the bottom... then I loosened the bleeder valve and moved on to pumping the brakes......

Here is something I have noticed when doing this "1 man brake bleed"........ it seems like air bubbles never stop coming out of the bleeder valve...... the tube is just constantly filled with air bubbles that move down into the bottle....

aren't the air bubbles supposed to stop? If there is something causing a non-stop supply of air, would this cause a caliper to stick?

My phone died at this point but I caught a 2 second video of what the air bubbles look like. Crazy, huh? Am I doing the bleed wrong?



Has anyone ever seen this?

The caliper stayed that tight... ALL THE WAY HOME. UGH! Came to a stop and got a little smoke too.

Seriously?

Okay,

so for whatever reason that my calipers are sticking... it's making me crazy!

I am taking the work day off tomorrow to collab with a buddy of mine and try to figure this out...

but I still need input from you all..

hang in there! We can fix this together!

 

[natenkiki2004]

There might be several issues going on and they might not all be related. Did the new rotors fix the steering issue?

 

[MistahYebba]

There might be several issues going on and they might not all be related. Did the new rotors fix the steering issue?

Driving home wasn't too bad but turning the wheel to a certain point makes it sound almost like putting a playing card into bicycle spokes, but the heavy duty car version of that sound...

Also, driving home with a sticking caliper forcing my drivers side rotor to be tough to turn doesn't help diagnose.

Did you see all those air bubbles? Think it's just the threads of the bleeder valve screws getting some air in as I do it?

 

[natenkiki2004]

You likely need to relieve some of the pressure on the rotors. When you change pads and/or rotors, you need to push the piston back in. Proper procedure for that is to crack loose the bleeder and then push the piston back in, so you're not pushing contaminated fluid back up into the master cylinder. From there, you short-stroke the brake pedal to build idle pressure into the piston.

However, if you squeezed the calipers back on and drove, that should have "seated" everything and made it all happy.

The air bubbles are an issue. Not sure where they'd be coming from though. Only crack the bleeders enough for fluid to come out, don't unscrew them more than that. Have your helper get vigorous with the pedal, I've found that helps loosen trapped air in the line and get it all out. I personally have bled vehicles a few times and never saw fluid or air go back into the system when the pedal was released.

It was mentioned before, replacing the brake hoses. I suppose they could have deteriorated internally and maybe have a flap that acts as a one-way valve of sorts? Not sure, I haven't seen anything like this myself. Though, just as good preventative maintenance and to eliminate curiosity, replacing the hoses wouldn't be a bad idea at this point. I only hesitate to throw more money into parts...

 

[MistahYebba]

You likely need to relieve some of the pressure on the rotors. When you change pads and/or rotors, you need to push the piston back in. Proper procedure for that is to crack loose the bleeder and then push the piston back in, so you're not pushing contaminated fluid back up into the master cylinder. From there, you short-stroke the brake pedal to build idle pressure into the piston.

However, if you squeezed the calipers back on and drove, that should have "seated" everything and made it all happy.

The air bubbles are an issue. Not sure where they'd be coming from though. Only crack the bleeders enough for fluid to come out, don't unscrew them more than that. Have your helper get vigorous with the pedal, I've found that helps loosen trapped air in the line and get it all out. I personally have bled vehicles a few times and never saw fluid or air go back into the system when the pedal was released.

It was mentioned before, replacing the brake hoses. I suppose they could have deteriorated internally and maybe have a flap that acts as a one-way valve of sorts? Not sure, I haven't seen anything like this myself. Though, just as good preventative maintenance and to eliminate curiosity, replacing the hoses wouldn't be a bad idea at this point. I only hesitate to throw more money into parts...

Hey Nate,

I replaced the brake hose on the passenger side 2 days ago to rule that out

I did it on the only side that was sticking at the time, but honestly the hose that was already on there looked good....

They were the slightly "metal woven" hoses and the only part chipping off was the type of fabric that surrounds the metal woven part.

I did not push the pistons back in but considered it.

If I push the pistons back in and THEN put the calipers on, then when I press the brake pedal, shouldn't the piston just push out to its tightest position anyway, and then be at the same spot I am now?

Would air in the system make a caliper stick, randomly either left or right?

Also, are we sure turning the wheel with the engine off and getting a little explosion of power steering fluid is okay to just disregard and take as a lesson learned?

 

[92exp4x4]

Air in the system will not cause a caliper to lock up. it will only cause the brakes to be spongy. The power steering fluid eruption did nothing but make a mess. Fluid had to go back to the reservoir when you turned the wheel, and without the pump running the fluid overfilled and squirted out. I have done the same thing multiple times on my trucks.

If both sides now are locking up, then all that is left is the master and booster. Make sure the pedal and linkage isn't binding up and that no lines are pinched. You truck being a 92 does not have front ABS, so that rules out a lot of possiblities. Loosen the master from the booster without disturbing anything else. If the brakes release, then issue is not hydraulic and is in booster/pedal assume.

If your pedal and lines are good and not blocked or binding/ sticking, then a master cylinder job is in the future. Most booster failures cause a lack of power assist, but I think there is a return spring inside that could cause your issue.