Brake issue I just can't track down

[Hank]

Babbling can be fun. Yes, your ABS unit differs greatly from the RABS. NOTE: according to the haynes bleeding the ABS unit requires a dealer tool.. Be careful.



You know if it was not for bad luck I would have no luck at all.

Broke the rear hard lines disconnecting the old rear hose. Fortunatly I had Jon's old lines for spares in the garage.

Put the rear line from Russel on, fit a little funny but it worked.

Moved up to the RABS and replaced it.

Went up to the drivers front line. Wrong lines.. Fitting not even close..

Went back and pulled the rear line and replaced with a new OEM line I had in the garage.

Pressurized the system to bleed the rear lines and notice fluid gushing out where the new RABS is.

RABS has a crack in the housing....

Replaced new RABS with old RABS, bled brakes.

3 hours wasted...

Try again next week after sorting out parts with vendors...

 

[Hank]

Exchanged RABS at Advanced today, no problems, should be in on Tuesday.


Took a close look at the lines this am. Looks like it may ba a simple mis-pack at Russel. Looks like they packed 2 of the pass side lines in the kit. I'm missing the drivers side which has the 2 fittings at the top of the line. Called coximports, they have seen this from Russel before on Dodge kits. They will call when Russel opens and start sorting it out.

 

[Hank]

Still waiting Russel dropped the ball and never sent replacements. Claim they are shipping 3 day select. If they don't go today it will be Monday before I get them... Not thrilled, starting to think it is time to buy a mini-van..

 

[Hank]

Bloody hell.....

Brake line are in... AT THE VENDOR IN MELBOURNE FL not at my house in CAPE CORAL FL!! ####ing a-holes shipped it to the shop, not me. Then Russell wanted to issue a call tag and when they got them back they would ship me another set!! WTF

Spoke to the shop owner, they got Russel's shipper number, I pushed to see if they would ship the Sat overnight.. Otherwise I'll get them Tuesday and have to wait yet another f-ing week...

Russel sucks... :thumbdwn:

 

[Hank]

Saturday am UPS delivery...

Bloody f-ing ####!!!!!!

WRONG BRAKE LINES AGAIN!!!!!!

Russell sucks!!

 

[Hank]

Put the replacement RABS in today and have much better brakes . Also the RABS works reliably and works pretty darn good with the big tires.

I'm not running out of pedal any more either.

Now to sort out the line issue, still want the braided lines as I know it will help with the pressures.

One thing I can say about Russell, the are consistant.. Consistantly BAD..... What a bunch of a$$ wipes....

 

[Rhett]

Babbling can be fun. Yes, your ABS unit differs greatly from the RABS. NOTE: according to the haynes bleeding the ABS unit requires a dealer tool.. Be careful.

It really does...if you want to do it right...but you can get away with bleeding the old-fashioned way, although working with the ABS without the power bleeder is always dicey. I got air in an HCU once and had to have it power bled finally.

I would like to acquire one of those bleeders...if possible. I have seen them at a dealer$hip. I think someone posted a pic here of the Ford bleeder a long time ago too. Do you know how I can get my hands on one of those bleeders?

I will probably ditch the ABS, or at least the 4-wheel ABS at some point, probably when I retire my rig to toy status in 3-4 years. I'd either keep RABS, getting a proportioning valve and ABS computer from a BII or 91-92 Explorer, or do something entirely different...

I too like the idea of stainless lines...

 

[Hank]

Yes, I have a vac bleeder and a power bleeder. The power bleeder is the way to go. Bleed your whole ride in 10 minutes... I got the one from Motive and although it is a little overpriced it does work well. The only thing I do not like is the adapters are a little tough to work with. You have to get them aligned just right and torque the heck out of them so they don't leak.

But once you get the hang of it, it is great.


Fired this off to Cox Imports this morning.

Good morning,

Well at least we can say Russell is consistent, unfortunately it is consistently incompetent.

On my original order, see e-mail below, they shipped a kit with two of the same front brake lines. This is in correct for the 91-94 Ranger and Explorer as the drivers line has two female fittings at the top of the line.

Upon receipt of my e-mail from 7/17 we were both told that Russell would ship a replacement order via UPS 3day select with an anticipated arrival date of 7/22. This shipment was to include a call tag to return the incorrect product.

Calling in on 7/25 as the lines were not received we discovered that Russell dropped the ball and never shipped the replacement kit. Russell advised yet again they would ship the replacement order via 3 day select.

Next on 7/29 we discovered that Russell shipped the lines to your office. Their initial response was that they would send a call tag and upon receipt they would then re-ship the goods to me. Thank you for knocking some sense into them and also for shipping the goods down to me via overnight freight on Russell's nickel.

Unfortunately upon opening the box I discovered that yet again they have shipped kit that is incorrect for this application. And of course there was not a call tag included in the shipment.

At this point I only see two options. 1. Have Russell get off their duff, check their specs for a 91 2wd Explorer/Ranger and overnight the correct lines to me. 2. Have Russell pickup up the two packages of lines and issue full credit.

Let me know how we are going to proceed.

 

[Hank]

Called Cox, refund to be issued.

Called Rocky Mountain Suspension, gave me the number to Skyjacker, got a human at Skyjacker to confirm specs correct per Skyjacker drawings. 135.00 including shipping.

Should be coming out of Lousiana and could have by this weekend..

Strange note, did you guys know Rocky Mountain Suspension move from the Rocky Mountains to North Carolina?? go figure


Skyjacker part numbers for braided brake lines.
Front kit FBL36
Rear kit RBL36

 

[ThespecialistKC]

I had all kinds of wackiness going on when I did the rears on my '92 XLT. Basically ended up replacing everything (including the RABS valve), but still had problem with the rears not bleeding and no pedal travel. Had to disconnect the battery, then everything was fine. I think the RABS valve looks for a loss of pressure and seals off the rears when one is detected (i.e. opening the bleeders). Go figure

 

[Hank]

Thanks for the feedback. I think I am much better off with the new RABS. Got up to 70 on an empty bit of road and slammed on the brakes as hard as I could.

She stopped hard, I could feel the RABS pulse and no rear lockup. Running 33's the brakes still suck and I still think I am dealing with some flex line swelling. I hope that the braided lines from Superlift will really help. I'll post back results as soon and they come in and I get them hooked up.

All the best.
hg

 

[Rhett]

You might consider some slotted rotors, such as the ones sold by Explorer Express.
Especially with the larger rolling mass.

I have a set of slotteds sitting my storage room, so I can't vouch for any increased stopping power. They claim to though...; I am waiting for my stock rotors (113,000 miles, been machined once) to wear out.

 

[Hank]

Well, I may look at the better rotors down the line but I just discovered a new issue.

Looks like the RABS replacement was a good thing to do and I am obviously getting more pressure to the rear brakes than before. How can I tell??

..............The blown rear line and brake fluid running down my diff......

Hope the superlift lines get here soon...


Yes, I was really pounding on the brakes after replacing the RABS. Full pressure 2 feet on the pedal stop from 75mph.. The RABS worked like a champ!!

 

[Rhett]

Whew! Gotta be careful doing that, even with ABS going. That rear end can come around quick if you don't watch it during heavy braking.

Happened to me last November when I locked them up to try to avoid a deer. Didn't avoid the deer...and did a 180 on the road, to boot. I steered into the skid, and I'd like to think I kept it from flipping or going into a ditch by doing so, but I'm not gonna give myself that much credit. I was lucky. The ABS on my truck is on again, off again...

 

[Hank]

I agree, surprisingly the RABS behaved like a champ. Now on another note on a dirt road slamming on the brakes while in a turn was much more fun.... I was not going near as fast though... It pulled the truck straight and I had to correct rather quickly or end up in the swail.

Hopefully the superlift lines will be here soon. Now to start pounding on cox imports for my call tag and refund.

 

[Hank]

Put the lines from superlift on today. I got brakes! Much better improvement. Some slight mush in the pedal still, probably will have the wife help me bleed them next weekend.

Firm pedal braking is still feels better than slam on the pedal braking. I still get that pedal stoping feeling and I think it is related to the RABS kicking in.

Major improvement, for the first time I can actually smell the brakes working.. They really got hot after a couple of hard stops. Never did that before.

I rate the kit from superlift a solid A- They took a unique approach to their lines. The lines themselves have female fittings, to build up a kit they just screw on various adapters and fittings. Keeps costs down but has some minor drawbacks.

On the drivers front line with the 2 female fittings their adapter is a T block versus the OEM line which has female fittings 90 degrees from each other. This took some careful bending of the factory lines and on my Ex there was no way in hell the line was going to clip on / go through the spring perch. So I had to route the line on top of the old location.

The length of the adapters required to build up the real line up to the T block would end up hitting the spare tire mount under any suspension compression so I had to mount it in a reversed postion. Again some careful bending of the lines was required.

The front pass line was a 100% drop in to the original location.

The 2 required gerry rigs are the only reason the kit does not score and A+ in my book. But for the money and increased performance it is one hell of a kit.

More next week after foot bleeding and measuring the discs. Although they are less than a year old.

I am running the performance friction brake pads, may look for something better.

 

[Hank]

No air in the lines but I still have a little of that funny pedal feel. Doing some searching on old posts I found a thread about putting in the master cyl from a 96. Has a larger bore than the 91.

Will post back if I go that route.

 

[Rhett]

I am running the performance friction brake pads, may look for something better.

What's better than Performance Friction for our trucks? Bendix Fleet? I'm not so sure...

 

[410Fortune]

the 96 master cyl should be used with rear discs only, sorry I did not read the whole thread.

 

[Hank]

Re: Performance Friction. Don't know what would be better. Rotex Gold?? Only thing I do see is every now and then I get glazing on the PF pads. Couple of hard stops and it does clear.

Re: Cyll, 96 is 10% larger than the 91. ie: more pressure/flow. Yes when you rear disc swap you should really do it. But it will be just fine on my current setup and in theory should increase pressure/flow. I have good brakes for running 33's however I can still push the pedal down to where the master runs out of travel. An extra 10% could help and won't hurt.