Chasing a highway vibration on my 96 Explorer

[swshawaii]

It feels like a solid shake from the floor boards and not tire related

Seems you've checked but just a heads up on this 20 year old TSB. (7/29/96 - 8/12/96 Build)

VIBRATION IN FLOOR PAN 5.0 VEHICLES WITH AWD
http://www.revbase.com/BBBMotor/TSb/DownloadPdf?id=42124

http://www.bbbind.com/free_tsb.html

 

[1997XLTRollover]

I recently did my hubs but not my CV's as they are not giving me any issues... yet. But I did have some lateral play in them. Not much, but some. About what you mentioned.
My research determined that is normal as long as the movement does not include front-to-back and/or up and down movement. That is, if they move side to side some you're ok. But if they get sloppy all around then that indicates problems ahead.

Yeah mine have no up down or forward back movement they really feel just fine. This is driving me nuts. On top of the fact that this truck is getting horrible gas mileage too. 9-10 mpg.

Seems you've checked but just a heads up on this 20 year old TSB. (7/29/96 - 8/12/96 Build)

VIBRATION IN FLOOR PAN 5.0 VEHICLES WITH AWD
http://www.revbase.com/BBBMotor/TSb/DownloadPdf?id=42124

http://www.bbbind.com/free_tsb.html

That's very interesting. I don't know off hand where my truck was built but now seeing that bulletin I wish I went WOT when I had my front drive shaft out. I did still feel the shake on the highway, but I'm curious now if the bad vibration was there under a hard acceleration.

That's surprising they ditched the double cardon joint for the 97+ shaft that seemed to be a much weaker design. Probably for NVH reasons I would guess.

 

[gmanpaint]

Side to side is perfectly fine. As a wheel moves up and down the length changes on a CV axle.

 

[1997XLTRollover]

Well I tightened up my u bolts on my rear axle, they were a little loose but not really bad, I snugged them up. I'll see if it shakes tomorrow, I'm sure it will. I did notice my axle is shifted about 1/4" to the passenger side, is this a problem that may throw off the rear driveshaft angle or cause any other issues?

 

[1997XLTRollover]

Ok guys, I had a bit of an incident today that made me park the truck and clean the poo off the driver’s seat after I got out. I'm now borrowing my father’s truck to get to work this week because there's no way I'm driving this truck again without getting it fixed.

I was driving the ex doing about 40-45 through a left hand turn and all of a sudden the steering wheel started to shake violently left and right and ripped out of my hands. I gripped the wheel as tight as I could but the truck was still ratcheting back and forth as the front tires shook left and right out of control. I got the truck through the turn, straightened out and the problem went away. I then tried to induce the problem again and sure enough I could feel it starting to shake bad again only when I tried putting the truck into a left turn

This has to be the vibration I was getting on the highway just a much larger scale. It was a serious shake of the body obviously now caused by the front tires flopping out of control.

All that being said I may have found the culprit or culprits. After this happened I figured there had to be something severely wrong. Long story short I grabbed my steering shaft and it wigged around quite a bit. The slip joint seemed almost loose. Now that being said, there was no play when I turned the wheel; it was tight in respect to steering play. However it was loose when I grabbed it and pushed it side to side. Is this normal or could this be my problem? I honestly want to say this is normal but need some confirmation.

I pulled the shaft out and the double cardon joint feels ok (I have to get it in a vice to double check it under a load still, but initially it feels fine). After 3-4 hours of fighting this thing I got it out and noticed the boot was torn open and the joint was rusted on the bottom side. It still moves freely but with a torn boot probably won't last long.

So Questions...

1) Does anyone know where I can get a replacement boot for this thing? I can't seem to find anything online. (boot circled in the pic below on the left).

2) Is the play in the steering slip joint shaft normal or should it have zero play? I feel like I always remember these things having play in them, but want to be sure (part that's loose circled in pic below toward the right on the slip joint). Arrows show the direction I get movement. That's just grabbing with my hand and pushing forward and back, that's not a rotational movement. Rotation wise it's perfectly tight and I see no signs of wear.

Second side note and also what I think is THE issue or part of it. I had my dad wiggle the passenger side tire back and forth a bit and I have what seems like ever so slight inner tie rod play. It’s so minimal I missed it the first time around. I find it hard to believe this is causing this major vibration but I suppose weirder things have happened. So I’m going to get that replaced as soon as I find a boot for this steering shaft and figure out if I have to replace or repair it too.

 

[gmanpaint]

I would get the steering rack looked at.

That violent ratchet action on the steering wheel can be caused by hydro fluid pressure.
Example: If someone installed the In/Out lines in reverse order, that's exactly what can happen. Violent, and very fast steering wheel ratcheting. Strong enough to break bones if caught in the wheel.

When Air is inside the system, this also causes a bad ratcheting to the steering wheel, but is less violent. It can feel like it is shaking the entire vehicle, and in fact it does.

I have no idea about a new boot. :scratch:

Side to side rotational play in the steering shaft is normal in older higher mile rigs. If yours has "Wollered" out...The cheap fix to this is to source a low mile version from a salvage yard. There is a plastic & a steel version. The steel is stronger and lasts longer. Only a 2nd gen for a 2nd gen will work. Up and down movement for the slip shaft is at least 3". There is a sticky thread covering this in the 2nd gen forum.

As far as the inner TRE, any play is a bad thing. This should be changed asap, as it will only get worse, and with it, comes steering issues. I can see the hammering of the rack doing harm to this part fairly easy. A re-manufactured rack comes with new inners on it usually.

Look for fluid leaks on the cross member and around it. Check the steering fluid levels, and for bubbles. With the engine running, turn the wheel left to right a few times. It should be quiet. Is it? or is it louder then normal? Turn off the engine, look inside the tank. Does it look low? Any tiny bubbles or foam on top? Check the lines to the pump & the rack. Remember that the line to the tank & rack is supposed to feel loose at the nuts. The others should be tight with no play. Just look for leaks.

Ok, if all that checks out, the only other thing we have not talked about in this thread is the steering pump itself. If it is bad, it could also play a factor in the shake. If it is partially clogged, it can pulse fluid pressure.

Normally, a bad shake in the front is caused by bad ball joints, bad TRE's, or a busted tire belt. You say they are all good, except the recent notice of a little play in one inner tre. So this is why I am thinking the rack & pinion.

 

[1997XLTRollover]

I would get the steering rack looked at.

That violent ratchet action on the steering wheel can be caused by hydro fluid pressure.
Example: If someone installed the In/Out lines in reverse order, that's exactly what can happen. Violent, and very fast steering wheel ratcheting. Strong enough to break bones if caught in the wheel.

When Air is inside the system, this also causes a bad ratcheting to the steering wheel, but is less violent. It can feel like it is shaking the entire vehicle, and in fact it does.

I have no idea about a new boot. :scratch:

Side to side rotational play in the steering shaft is normal in older higher mile rigs. If yours has "Wollered" out...The cheap fix to this is to source a low mile version from a salvage yard. There is a plastic & a steel version. The steel is stronger and lasts longer. Only a 2nd gen for a 2nd gen will work. Up and down movement for the slip shaft is at least 3". There is a sticky thread covering this in the 2nd gen forum.

As far as the inner TRE, any play is a bad thing. This should be changed asap, as it will only get worse, and with it, comes steering issues. I can see the hammering of the rack doing harm to this part fairly easy. A re-manufactured rack comes with new inners on it usually.

Look for fluid leaks on the cross member and around it. Check the steering fluid levels, and for bubbles. With the engine running, turn the wheel left to right a few times. It should be quiet. Is it? or is it louder then normal? Turn off the engine, look inside the tank. Does it look low? Any tiny bubbles or foam on top? Check the lines to the pump & the rack. Remember that the line to the tank & rack is supposed to feel loose at the nuts. The others should be tight with no play. Just look for leaks.

Ok, if all that checks out, the only other thing we have not talked about in this thread is the steering pump itself. If it is bad, it could also play a factor in the shake. If it is partially clogged, it can pulse fluid pressure.

Normally, a bad shake in the front is caused by bad ball joints, bad TRE's, or a busted tire belt. You say they are all good, except the recent notice of a little play in one inner tre. So this is why I am thinking the rack & pinion.

As far as my steering shaft there is no rotational play, only side to side play when I grab it through the wheel well and push toward the engine and pull back out. Is this normal? I'm assuming yes but want to be sure before I put that pain in the ass thing back in. I also have to find that boot or I'm sure I'll be replacing this shaft soon because the joint will get destroyed.

Far as the lines being backwards I doubt it, but I'll have to check. Does anyone have a diagram of what line is supposed to go where? On the second note about the air, I recently changed all the fluid (2k miles ago when I did the engine) so it's possible there's air in it. But I did a whole bunch of full lock to lock turns to try to be sure it's clean and out of the system. This may be part of my issue though. Is there any good way to get air out of the system if it's stuck in there? I wouldn't say it was a horrible shake, on a scale from 1-10 for violent steering shake I'd give this one a 5-6 but it sure scared the hell out of me because I didn't expect it at all. The wheel moved up and inch or so, then dropped 2, then back up 2 and so on. So full motion was an inch up from center and an inch down from center.

I noticed yesterday even my bushings in my control arms look new, someone rebuilt these arms for sure. Also the fact that the shake is worst at 55-60 makes me think it's not ball joints. I would think those would just get worse and worse as speed goes up. Tires also are of course fine because they're new and the old set showed the same problems I'm seeing now. So I'll look into the rack but I don't remember seeing any leaks near the rack, than again I wasn't looking for any.



EDIT: Just ordered a steering boot for a 72-86 Jeep CJ. It looked similar so I'm going to give it a shot. Something is better than the completely torn one I had. Hopefully I can make it work to at least cover 90% of it. I'll fill the rest with a ton of grease to hopefully keep any water and dirt from getting to the joint.

 

[1997XLTRollover]

Well I just pulled the inner tie rod boot off just to be sure it was bad. Well looks like I was wrong. It's perfectly tight. The rack however is what was making the light tap I heard when I was moving the tire. Now the weird part is it's not side to side movement, it's actually the shaft coming out of the rack just tapping the surrounding case. I almost want to say nothing is wrong here either. What do you guys think? The tires are tight side to side. I had my pop hold one side as I wiggled the other and there is zero movement what so ever.

Something else I realized today in my research is that I turned the truck a bit with the engine off when I rolled it down my driveway right before this bad vibration happened. What I'm reading is that these trucks don't like to be turned without the engine running and maybe this is what caused this horrible shake of my wheels and is completely unrelated to this vibration I have?

 

[chefduane]

Air in the steering system certainly CAN cause a violent shake. It happened to me after I did a brake job. I had turned the wheels - engine off - a bit to move the hubs for better access. Big no no. Introduces air in the system and can give you the shakes really bad!! To fix, top off your steering fluid res (it takes ATF) and then find an open spot like a parking lot you can you a few steering lock-to-lock figure 8's. Slow speed, full deflection right turn in a circle, then full deflection left turn in a circle. Do that a few times just to be sure. That will purge air out of the system. Check and top fluid again after that. Then do a test drive at speed and see if she still shakes.

 

[1997XLTRollover]

It was probably air in the system then. I've turned steering systems with the engine off for years, on tons of vehicles including Fords. Never had this issue. But I bet this is my issue and completely unrelated to my vibration. That being said I'll have to put my truck back together and continue my search.

Does anyone think that steering rack is an issue or the steering shaft slip joint acting the way it is is normal or is that an issue? I'm thinking no but was hoping someone with a good running truck could just grab theirs though their wheel well or under the hood to see if it's loose. I get probably 1/4" of deflection (1/8" each direction).

 

[gmanpaint]

The main reason we don't turn the wheel with engine off is because the ford pump reservoir has a vent hole. It is there to allow hot air escape after the fluids heat up. The fluids will shoot out of this hole when turning the wheel with engine off. If enough fluid is expelled, air can be sucked into the line.

If the slip joint is worn out, I can see it getting play like your describing. If you rotate it by hand, and you feel a little play, that can come from either the worn slip joint, or the upper or lower ends. Top end the metal D opening gets worn out. Lower end has a ball joint and a D opening that can wear out.

When I mentioned the lines being backwards, that was just an example given to explain what a real violent wheel shake is like. Look up steering lines backwards on youtube. You will see what I mean

 

[1997XLTRollover]

The main reason we don't turn the wheel with engine off is because the ford pump reservoir has a vent hole. It is there to allow hot air escape after the fluids heat up. The fluids will shoot out of this hole when turning the wheel with engine off. If enough fluid is expelled, air can be sucked into the line.

If the slip joint is worn out, I can see it getting play like your describing. If you rotate it by hand, and you feel a little play, that can come from either the worn slip joint, or the upper or lower ends. Top end the metal D opening gets worn out. Lower end has a ball joint and a D opening that can wear out.

When I mentioned the lines being backwards, that was just an example given to explain what a real violent wheel shake is like. Look up steering lines backwards on youtube. You will see what I mean

Got ya. No more turning the wheel with the engine off for me haha. Far as the slip joint, the double cardon is fine, I can grab the shaft with it out of the truck and it bends in the middle where I had circled because it's loose. But if I twist simulating a steering wheel turn it's tight as can be. I doubt this is causing my vibration but just wanted to be sure it's ok.

I wish I could pull the rear drive shaft and go for a drive. It's just such an odd shake like I've never really felt before. Anyone in Jersey want to go for a ride? lol

 

[1997XLTRollover]

I also just noticed something else. My shaft does not have a boot in the middle where the slip joint is. I wonder if that's why I have some play. Maybe that is a hard rubber boot that prevents the defection of the shaft? Also probably keeps dirt out of the shaft. Anyone know where I can get that one too?

 

[1997XLTRollover]

Well, not sure if anyone is still following this but I just replaced an outer tie rod that was popping when at full lock. After replacing that the popping sound is gone and I can feel the vibration more now in the steering.

 

[JCat]

i would get the steering rack looked at.

That violent ratchet action on the steering wheel can be caused by hydro fluid pressure.
Example: If someone installed the in/out lines in reverse order, that's exactly what can happen. Violent, and very fast steering wheel ratcheting. Strong enough to break bones if caught in the wheel.

When air is inside the system, this also causes a bad ratcheting to the steering wheel, but is less violent. It can feel like it is shaking the entire vehicle, and in fact it does.

I have no idea about a new boot. :scratch:

Side to side rotational play in the steering shaft is normal in older higher mile rigs. If yours has "wollered" out...the cheap fix to this is to source a low mile version from a salvage yard. There is a plastic & a steel version. The steel is stronger and lasts longer. Only a 2nd gen for a 2nd gen will work. Up and down movement for the slip shaft is at least 3". There is a sticky thread covering this in the 2nd gen forum.

As far as the inner tre, any play is a bad thing. This should be changed asap, as it will only get worse, and with it, comes steering issues. I can see the hammering of the rack doing harm to this part fairly easy. A re-manufactured rack comes with new inners on it usually.

Look for fluid leaks on the cross member and around it. Check the steering fluid levels, and for bubbles. With the engine running, turn the wheel left to right a few times. It should be quiet. Is it? Or is it louder then normal? Turn off the engine, look inside the tank. Does it look low? Any tiny bubbles or foam on top? Check the lines to the pump & the rack. Remember that the line to the tank & rack is supposed to feel loose at the nuts. The others should be tight with no play. Just look for leaks.

Ok, if all that checks out, the only other thing we have not talked about in this thread is the steering pump itself. If it is bad, it could also play a factor in the shake. If it is partially clogged, it can pulse fluid pressure.

Normally, a bad shake in the front is caused by bad ball joints, bad tre's, or a busted tire belt. You say they are all good, except the recent notice of a little play in one inner tre. So this is why i am thinking the rack & pinion.

+1

 

[1997XLTRollover]

Oh and side note, the violent shake I had seemed to go away after bleeding the steering system. So I'm back to my original vibration around 55-60 mph. I can start to feel it coming on at 45 or so but don't really feel it until 55-60 and then it get's a bit better after 65. I also see no leaks at the rack and fluid looks good no foam or anything like that.

I'm going to check a bunch more things out soon as I get time. Problem is I work full time and rarely have time ot screw around with the truck.

 

[Friborage]

Oh and side note, the violent shake I had seemed to go away after bleeding the steering system. So I'm back to my original vibration around 55-60 mph. I can start to feel it coming on at 45 or so but don't really feel it until 55-60 and then it get's a bit better after 65. I also see no leaks at the rack and fluid looks good no foam or anything like that.

I'm going to check a bunch more things out soon as I get time. Problem is I work full time and rarely have time ot screw around with the truck.

Last winter I had a vibration that would come on around 30-40mph, it felt like I was driving on a road made of small speed bumps. It would only vibrate when I had my foot on the gas pedal, if I let off the pedal and coasted at the same speed, the vibration would disappear completely, smooth as glass. Put my foot back on and it would come right back.

People on the forum here were throwing all kinds of ideas at me... wheel bearing, wheel out of balance, power steering rack, axle, tire has a flat spot, transmission issues... etc etc

I replaced the u-joints on the rear drive shaft at the transmission and at the rear diff... problem all gone. I tried turning the drive shaft by hand and it felt like it had no play, either, which is why I was unsure.

When I took the ujoints off, there were no bearings left in the cups and the cup was corroded onto the joint itself!

 

[1997XLTRollover]

Last winter I had a vibration that would come on around 30-40mph, it felt like I was driving on a road made of small speed bumps. It would only vibrate when I had my foot on the gas pedal, if I let off the pedal and coasted at the same speed, the vibration would disappear completely, smooth as glass. Put my foot back on and it would come right back.

People on the forum here were throwing all kinds of ideas at me... wheel bearing, wheel out of balance, power steering rack, axle, tire has a flat spot, transmission issues... etc etc

I replaced the u-joints on the rear drive shaft at the transmission and at the rear diff... problem all gone. I tried turning the drive shaft by hand and it felt like it had no play, either, which is why I was unsure.

When I took the ujoints off, there were no bearings left in the cups and the cup was corroded onto the joint itself!

I think my shake is in my front suspension somewhere. I already swapped my rear driveshaft and now that I changed this outer tie rod I can feel a distinct shake in the steering wheel. The bad tie rod was masking the steering wheel shake which is why this all felt so weird. Now I can feel the blatant shake of my steering which is obviously what's shaking the truck around. Now I just have to figure out why that's shaking.

 

[gmanpaint]

Did you swap the tires from front to back yet?

 

[1997XLTRollover]

Did you swap the tires from front to back yet?

I have not but will do so soon as I get a chance. However this shake was present with my old tires and wheels. I now have brand new tires and wheels so I don't think that's the issue. But I'm doing it anyway because weirder things have happened. Brakes also feel good, no shakes of any kind during braking. The shake is the worst at 60 mph and does not go away ever. On gas, off gas, braking, turning. The truck shakes at 60 MPH no matter what. At least the shake feels like somewhat of a normal shake now you would expect from a bad suspension component. Before the tie rod I had no idea what the hell was going on.

I'm going to get the truck up on jack stands and run it in gear to see if I see any wobble in any of the CV's or anything like that. I've had this gut feeling it's the CV's since the beginning but there's no play in them or popping/clicking so I've been trying to actually find the issue rather than just replace random parts.