"Check Engine" light + EGR problems

[phoeneous]

1st post

Hello to all. Ive been suffering from CEL syndrome for about a year now and Ive finally got around to working on it. OBD-II reads P040* errors. EGR flow problems. Ive replaced the EGR valve and EGR solenoid. The CEL was reset but only because negative lead to battery was off. CEL came back on after driving for about 10 minutes. Could it be the EVP? What else?

1996 XLT V8

Thx!

 

[phoeneous]

Anyone?

 

[Billy177]

dpfe

 

[TheJMan]

I'd also say the DPFE. I had a CEL with P0401 (EGR Flow Insufficient) and P0402 (EGR Flow Excessive) and it turned out that the DPFE was sticking. It's a pretty cheap fix, I had it done at the dealer for $80.

 

[phoeneous]

I think I have a PFE system and not a DPFE system. I went to autozone, bought a DPFE but I cant find it anywhere! I have a similar device which is the EGR Vacuum Regulator. I took some pictures. CEL is still on :fire:

This is the DPFE that I bought.

This is the pictures in the Haynes manual that tells me where the DPFE is located.

This is my engine. Notice there is no DPFE.

Another pic in the Haynes manual. I think I have a PFE system.

The sticker above the radiator. No DPFE.

The EGR Vacuum Regulator.

The EGR Vacuum Regulator next to the EGR Valve.

So do I have a PFE system? What else can I troubleshoot?

 

[phoeneous]

Any help is much appreciated.

 

[phoeneous]

C'mon. Anyone?

 

[Jayonator]

I don't think your car has a DPFE. I posted this in another thread:

Some 96 and early 97 have neither the DPFE nor the PFE. IT uses a system called sonic egr. fordfuelinjection.com/files/FoMoCo_1996_OBDII.pdf It doesn't have a tube running from the manifold but rather gets the exhaust from within the head. I have this in my 97 Mountaineer, build date August 96. IT's kind of a stepchild system used as a transition to DPFE from PFE. It sucks. I believe the computer uses the sensor piggy-backed on top of the EGR valve (evp sensor) to infer the actual gas flow. I have replaced the egr valve, position sensor, vacuum regulator solenoid and the iac valve, without success. I still get the 402 or 401 codes. Yea, and Ive cleaned the MAF.

Look at your passenger exhaust manifold. DPFE and I believe PFE sensor systems have a tube that carries exhause to the EGR. Otherwise, it is carried internally in the head. When I went to the dealer, I tried explaining what I had learned after days of googling. He assured me my car had the DPFE. Knowing I didn't have one, I took him out to my car to point the damn thing out. He looked, couldn't find it and made up some excuse that they move it around each year and assured me the $100 part was necesary for me.

 

[kevalmiller]

Did you get it fixed?

I don't think your car has a DPFE. I posted this in another thread:

Some 96 and early 97 have neither the DPFE nor the PFE. IT uses a system called sonic egr. fordfuelinjection.com/files/FoMoCo_1996_OBDII.pdf It doesn't have a tube running from the manifold but rather gets the exhaust from within the head. I have this in my 97 Mountaineer, build date August 96. IT's kind of a stepchild system used as a transition to DPFE from PFE. It sucks. I believe the computer uses the sensor piggy-backed on top of the EGR valve (evp sensor) to infer the actual gas flow. I have replaced the egr valve, position sensor, vacuum regulator solenoid and the iac valve, without success. I still get the 402 or 401 codes. Yea, and Ive cleaned the MAF.

Look at your passenger exhaust manifold. DPFE and I believe PFE sensor systems have a tube that carries exhause to the EGR. Otherwise, it is carried internally in the head. When I went to the dealer, I tried explaining what I had learned after days of googling. He assured me my car had the DPFE. Knowing I didn't have one, I took him out to my car to point the damn thing out. He looked, couldn't find it and made up some excuse that they move it around each year and assured me the $100 part was necesary for me.

Jaynator,

Did you ever sovle this problem? I have an Explorer XLT V8 with an August 1996 manufacture date, so I'm suspecting I have the same issue.

Thanks!

Kev

 

[IAmTodd]

DPFE is on the back of the upper intake on my 5.0.

 

[Turdle]

Try cleaning your egr valve, make sure it closes and opens completely. If it remains stuck open, you get an exessive flow code, If stuck closed--you can get a low flow code.

 

[my96explorer]

Make sure EGR valve opens and closes when vacuum is applied and released. The engine should idle rough or stalll when vacuum is applied to the EGR and smooth out once the vacuum is removed.

MAKE SURE THERE IS NO VACUUM TO EGR FROM EVR WHEN ENGINE IS IDLING. If there is vacuum at idle, disconnect EVR electrical connector and recheck vacuum to EGR. If the vacuum is gone, check EVR ground wire BR/PK (brown/pink) for short to ground. The PCM should control the ground! If vacuum is still applied to EGR with electrical connector disconnected at EVR, the EVR is sticking open. Try cleaning EVR or replace if needed.

Then check the voltage with the Key On Engine Off (KOEO) on terminal 63 O/Y (Orange/Yellow) wire at the PCM. Voltage should be .24-.67 volts on terminal 63. If it's higher than .67 volts (if it's 5v or close you have a bad ground to position sensor GY/R wire), unplug the vacuum line to the EGR valve and see if it drops. If voltage does not drop, EGR is not fully closed and may have carbon build up or position sensor is not calibrated. If the voltage does drop, remove the cap on the EVR (EGR Vacuum regulator) and clean the vent. Some models use shims to adjust position sensor to desired range. You could either clean the EGR valve (preferred) or add a thin shim (.005-.062") between position sensor and valve. Others may choose to grind the contact surface of the position sensor to acheive the correct voltage.


Good Luck!

 

[rizzjc]

The EGR Vacuum Regulator next to the EGR Valve.

So do I have a PFE system? What else can I troubleshoot?

You don't have a DPFE. You have an EGR sensor. That's it, on the back of the EGR. I took off the intake, throttle body, elbow, and replaced the sensor, cleaning up everything, including the EGR, in the process. The code came back. I gave up, and replaced the EGR. Problem solved. If you want to go through the trouble, clean the heck out of the EGR first. You'll need new gaskets to put everything back together (throttle body, elbow, and EGR). That little "pindle" that sticks out of the EGR into the intake, needs to be cleaned really well. Apparently if it even gets pitted a little, and any kind of buildup causes the sensor to register any amount of flow, then you'll get the CEL (Notice that in our setup the sensor doesn't register flow, just registers if the EGR is fully seated, i.e. closed. The DPFE registers actual air flow). I cleaned it pretty well, and also tested with the old sensor to see how little the sensor needed to move to send it over the threshhold for a CEL.

So, my recommendation is to just replace the EGR, but you can try cleaning everything first, if you don't mind having to take it all apart again if it doesn't solve the problem. Not a huge job, but a bit of a pain in the @ss.

 

[Maniac Mechanic]

EGR problems

Yo! Maniac Mechanic is having some serious WTF issues here. i just got my ranger and i love it. except for one small problem. It has a VERY rough idle. it continually hunts up and down like a race car. i don't really mind. i just wanted to make sure it wasn't going to rip my engine apart. the CEL was on for about a week. i decided to get it checked and it came back with the excessive egr flow code. i don't work on engines that much. only body work. i made a sick neon that was stuck on google for a long time( don't know if it is still there). any help would be great. the neon engine blew because a connecting rod to the piston broke which shattered the head. take it from me. stick with ford. don't make my mistake. any ideas would be great. thx