egr problem

[boggs1227]

well the past problems i have had with the engine have come back since the last post i did ( iac ohms test ) ....iac is fine

last night i removed all the sensors off the engine and went over each of them ...cleaned,meter tested . also during all this i had the batt disconnected all night to make sure the computer was blank when i re-install everything . put every thing back and started the truck and took it for a test drive around the subdivision .before i started this the cel came on then i did the removel of stuff .....going around the block i got another cel and so i figured i would do another code test and this is what i got ( useing " I " for explaining purposes.....

III III I III II IIIIIII III II IIIIIII , this is what i have come up with,


first code is 33 ( 1 is a spacer )
second code is 327 ( is displayed twice )

the only egr sensor i did not replace a year ago was the egr postion sensor .i meter tested it and got 33 ohms ( withen spec ) ,but the harness hada bad wire connector ...i figured that may have been my problems but i fixed it but no luck.

the codes point to the egr solinoid / dpfe module .i know that the dpfe gets it's signals from the exhaust then sends that info either to the pcm or directlly to the egr postion sensor it's self ( foot bone connected to the ankle bone ) .

the dpfe was replaced a year ago so it somewhat new but the egr solinoid is the one from the factory .i think i have read in another post that the dpfe module was notoriuos for going out could that be the source of the cel or is the egr solinoid( even tho it tested ok ) ,i was kinda confused on the test procedure in my haynes manual for the dpfe module .


any advice would be greatly appreciated ...........

edit : the numbers i typed under the " I 's " did not match up to them when i posted ( i deleted them to cut down on confusion )

 

[Noved1987]

eh duh huh I hope in not the only lost person

 

[boggs1227]

how so ? what with the codes i mentioned ?

 

[boggs1227]

bump ....all i need to know is what caused codes 33 and 327 ...the egr solinoid or the dpfe module .


thanks .

 

[Noved1987]

Just beyond my knowlege
another bump

 

[mikeinri]

See my related thread here, Code 327 from Hell...

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2103907#post2103907

Hope this helps.

Mike

 

[MrShorty]

1st a clarification: I don't believe you got a 33. That first code you got would be a 111 pass code. The single I serves as a separator between the KOEO codes and the CM codes.

Have you done the KOER test, to see if you get a 327 there as well? If you clear CM, does the 327 come back consistently?

What are you calling the DPFE and what are you calling the EGR position sensor? I ask because, my impression of the system was that it didn't have a separate EGR position sensor -- the DPFE serves as the EGR position sensor.

A CM 327 without an accompanying KOEO EGR code can be caused by several things. The electrical circuit obviously, but you also need to check the vacuum hoses, the exhaust tube to the EGR valve, and so on.

 

[boggs1227]

mrshorty,

the dpfe module ....this item has 3 connectors and has tubes from the egr tube

the egr solinoid...this item has only 2 connectors and is located right under the egr valve

these are the 2 itmes i was talking about .the egr solinoid ( the one thats under the egr valve) was the only egr part that i did not replace a year ago and i tested it with my meter two days ago and got 33 ohms ...withen spec from what my haynes manual tells me .

the dpfe sensor was replaced a year ago so i know it's somewhat new but i was confused on the test procedure so i did not test it with my meter.


i have not done a koer test yet and i have not cleared any codes .i got one of those crappy actron obd-1 code readers so natually you have to mark every time the light blinks to get your codes ,i guess the 33 was a mistake on my part on how to read them .....at the time i did not see the other code reader at advance auto ...it's a obd-1 reader but with a lcd display for about $15-20 more ....wish i would had got that one .

 

[boggs1227]

See my related thread here, Code 327 from Hell...

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2103907#post2103907

Hope this helps.

Mike

interesting ...... sounds like yours was doing what mine is doing .start up cold and let it warm up a little on the guage and no cel....drive up the top of my street and go around a curve and it set the cel off in the place twice .yesturday i did this and it came on in the same place then went aorund the block and then finally back up my street and it went off then came back on .

the problem i have had with this started over 2 months ago in dec.truck ran great all year long but one day all of a sudden the truck wanted to surge by it's self .it really does it bad the colder it is outside .there was a time about 2 weeks ago that all the problems went away and it ran great ( better than it had been all year ) but now we are getting colder weather it's came back with a vengence and now it's throwing a cel at me .

i replace the iac / ect so far and just 2 nights ago i took all the sensors off and cleaned them and tested and found no problems.

the new dpfe unit ford sells that now is in a plastic case ...did it come with new wire leads ? and so far you have had no more problems ?

 

[mikeinri]

boggs, as you can surmise from my other thread, there is definitely a troubleshooting guide for this circuit, including target voltages, etc. It's been a while since I had to deal with this, so you'll have to do some digging, but it's on this site.

Did you replace the DPFE sensor with a FORD part? Either way, don't assume it's good without testing it. And, blind part-swapping sucks (expensive and frustrating).

Yes, it had new connectors (had to splice them in), and has been fine ever since.

I have the Craptron too, works OK, but you need to have patience...

Mike

 

[boggs1227]

update .....

today i went and got a new dpfe module. before i started to replace it i first started by hooking up my craptron code reader ( "craptron" ....i don't care who you are ...now thats funny ) . went inside the cab and turned on the key and went back to the reader and started my code test ,once i started getting codes i switched the slide back to hold ( blanking out any stored codes ) ..went back turn off the key and dis-connected the reader.then un did the battery and replaced my part.

at first start up it ran like it did before ...right to 400 rpm and acted like it did not want to idle correctly.normally it will cold start and goto about 1k rpm then slowlly work it's way back down to about 600-700 rpms .so after giveing it some peddle it started to hold the proper rpm but still it wanted to surge a little on it's on then back back to the proper rpms.....that eventally stopped for the most part after about 20 minutes of the truck running while parked .

took it for a test drive around the subdivision and drove every street that gave me a cel and to my surprise ...no cel .... took it for a longer trip to the store and it drove fine ... still no cel . but i did notice while traveling the engine had the same symptoms ( yet very slight but no where as bad as before) the power would kinda slack off then come back ...but yet no dramatic surge while driveing @ say 55 mph / 15/16krpms.punched it with the passing gear and got up to about 70 mph and ran fine .got home and the idle was perfect but yet ever now and then you can still hear the engine kinda make a small / light skip sound.


still gota problem but the problem has gotten better which make tend to think that the egr solinoid may still be bad even tho it tested ok .tho i have not totally dis-assembled one down to it's guts to see how it actually works and functions but if it is any thing that controls vac pressure then then the electromechanical part of the device make still function like it should and give all the proper ohm readings but there has to be a seal of some sort that actually control the vac pressure to be controled before reaching the egr valve it's self .

 

[boggs1227]

update :

today i started it up and went right to 400 rpm again but gave it a little gas and voila...back to right rpms and stayed like that and still no cel .this is def got me wanting to get another egr solinoid .if you think about it does sit right over the exhaust header basiclly ,so what ever the seal part of the unit has to see alot of heat ....betting that it's seals have dried out and are slow to move in reaction to the solinoid part of the device.

it's getting there slow but surely to being all fixed .

 

[mikeinri]

So, did you replace the DPFE?

How do the tubes look? Mine were old and not providing a good connection. You need to use the silicone ones to replace them, not fuel line (although that would work in a pinch).

Before you replace any more electrical parts, I would urge you to do a "real" diagnostic. That would involve a test meter and vaccuum pump.

Mike

 

[boggs1227]

yes i replaced the dpfe ,the hose that i had on there was about a year old and i did replace that as well but i used what i did the last time ....fuel injection hose / fuel hose .that type of tubeing no good ?? does it create a catalytic responce in the preseance of exahust gas's and cause's the dpfe module to go bad before it's time !?!? .....great i guess i know what i'm doing tommorow lol ......

you mentioned tests...... is there a vac test for the egr solinoid?can you elaborate a little more about that .

 

[Willard]

I just want to clarify...

The DPFE is the module with four wires and the two hoses going to it.

The EGR solenoid is the black thing that sits under the EGR valve, sort of on top of the valve cover. It has two wires and two vacuum hoses as well going to it.

There are no other parts to the system besides the EGR tube and the EGR valve.

So I don't know what this "EGR position sensor" you speak of is. All the online parts catalogs use that term interchangeably with DPFE.

Trust me on this, I've replaced every part of my EGR, and the DPFE sensor still shows it doesn't work. Even though, it definitely works, I've ran every test to see the function of the system and it all works, except the DPFE sensor, it's the third one now and it just doesn't work.

On the solenoid, the way it works is it's a solenoid that gets pulsed, and the computer regulates vac pressure that way. So if it gives the proper reading for vacuum pull, then it's good. There is no seals of any sort inside of it.

 

[mikeinri]

boggs: I don't know about catalytic response or whatever, but the fuel line will go bad a lot faster because of the exposure to the exhaust gas temps (gets stiff/brittle/breaks/leaks).

devilboy: Are you sure it's the DPFE sensor and not something in the wiring (voltage/vac tests should tell you)? Did you use a Ford DPFE, or aftermarket? If you went with Ford, was it the new model which requires you to slice in a new connector?

That's all I got...

Mike

 

[Willard]

No, I'm not sure it's the DPFE sensor, I know it's not the wiring. The output voltage reading I get at the sensor are wrong.

My thought is that it could be the actual tube. It is my understanding there is an orifice inside of it between where the two lines connect. Mine is aftermarket, because I broke it while trying to replace the EGR valve. So I think the orifice either isn't there or isn't right. But if that's the issue it's gonna stay there.

Like I said, I don't really care, the CEL has been on for like 4 years, and it runs perfectly. It's got 217k, at this point I'm just gonna drive it til the wheels fall off and forget it.

 

[Tbars4]

...Boggs1227, have you cleaned your IAC lately???...and congrats on the DPFE fix...:biggthump

 

[boggs1227]

ic. sorry for my Termanology on the egr solinoid...my mistake. ive had looked at so many web pages about "egr" and the haynes manual i guess i got my terms messed up from all this .

devilboy , so what your saying that i should hook a vac guage to the line that goes from the solinoid output to the egr valve and see if i see a reading the solinoid is good right ?

mikeinri, i understand ...to tell the truth the ones i pulled off were slightly getting mis-formed arond the part that goes onto the egr tube ...i'll replace those tommorow .

btw: the dpfe unit i bought was an aftermarket one ...not ford sorry to say .

 

[boggs1227]

...Boggs1227, have you cleaned your IAC lately???...and congrats on the DPFE fix...:biggthump

yes i have ...clean as a whistle...thanks tho ...i guess $60 dollars will do a little something .