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Engine swap wont start

un4givon

Member
Joined
October 12, 2007
Messages
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City, State
Venice, FL
Year, Model & Trim Level
'98
I have a 98 Explorer Eddie Bauer Edition 4.0 SOHC, that I just dropped a 97 4.0 SOHC in. Everything is hooked up (I hope). The problem lies where now I cant get it to do anything. The theft light is blinking all the time. Key in ignition, turned and the theft light stays on for a few seconds adn then turns off like it should. Do I have to reset my computer somehow and what is the proper way of doing that? Or do I have to take it somewhere to have it done for me? Any help is greatful as its taken me over 6 months to get this project to the "finished" stage.

I have done some research and it seams to be a PATS problem. So another problem I have is that I only have 1 key and I guess you need both sets to get it to reset or reconize your key again. What the hell do I do from this point?
 



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I am having the same problem. I swap a 97 explorer ohv into 98 ohv. Turn the ignition and nothing happens, no crank. I plug in a code reader and receive no codes. I did a search on this site for (no crank- engine will not turn over) and found a good step- by -step procedures that help diagnose this problem.

I do not believe it a pat issue, your description of the theft light is normal. If theft light go out when ignition is turn to on, pat is work properly. If the theft light start blinks quickly and stay on when ignition is on position, it a pat problem

I am work through the no crank diagnostic procedures and hope I can come up with some answers.
 






i hope you are both aware the differences between a 97 engine and a 98 engine in the explorer?

returnless style fuel rail and regulator

how did you address this issue?

when you do these v6 engine swaps you must retain the sensors, intakes, accessories, wiring, brackets, from your old engine, not the new one....
 






As far as I can tell...

The returnless fuel system didn't start until MY 99 so they should be good to go with the hardware from the swapped engine..

My question though is they swap the PCM as well as the engine? Or did they other parts from the donor like the steering column too?

They do seem to think they have a PATS problem and I can't think of anything on the engine hardware-wise that would cause a PATS issue except the PCM...

EDIT: I should read the whole post twice before answering...On both swaps, did you verify the start lead is connected to the solenoid on the starter? If you jump the starter with the key off does the engine spin over? If you jump the starter with the key on, does the engine crank and start?
 






I myself didnt replace anything but the motor. A 98 to a 97. I do know that whatever connections that need to be made on the starter are connected and are good and tight. I have not tried to jump the starter, not even sure how to do that, guess I'll have to look into that. Now keep in mind that I haven't had a motor or battery in this truck since I blew the motor over 9 months ago and according to Ford, that could make the PATS not reconize my key and do whatever it is doing. Is this true or are they just trying to get $150.00 from me to program and get new keys? Again, all advice and help is appreciated.
 






I replaced the motor in my 96 went to try and crank it and had no power you could hear the starter relay click and everything but the starter didn't move. Found out that there is a large square electrical connector with a screw in the center to hold it together that needed to be hooked up on the top side of the engine. Once that was hooked up everything had power the started engaged and it cranked over. Not sure if this will help for a 97/98 tho.

- Jeremy
 






I replaced the motor in my 96 went to try and crank it and had no power you could hear the starter relay click and everything but the starter didn't move. Found out that there is a large square electrical connector with a screw in the center to hold it together that needed to be hooked up on the top side of the engine. Once that was hooked up everything had power the started engaged and it cranked over. Not sure if this will help for a 97/98 tho.

- Jeremy
I have everything connected. I have power to all light, dash, radio, AC, everything. And I know which harness your talking about and it is connected... Thanks anyways.
 






Well, I jumped the starter today and it turned the engine. I did just what the manual says to do. I pulled the starter relay and jumped the starter with the key off. The motor turned so I know I have that part right. I still think it might have something to do with the PAT. Maybe being that I havent had power to the truck at all for over 9 months this is what happens? Anyone?
 






Well, I jumped the starter today and it turned the engine. I did just what the manual says to do. I pulled the starter relay and jumped the starter with the key off. The motor turned so I know I have that part right. I still think it might have something to do with the PAT. Maybe being that I havent had power to the truck at all for over 9 months this is what happens? Anyone?

9mo w/o power is not your problem. If PATS did not recognize the key, you'd have a THEFT light on fast blink. The THEFT light pattern you described earlier is correct for a registered key.
 






I concur...

9mo w/o power is not your problem. If PATS did not recognize the key, you'd have a THEFT light on fast blink. The THEFT light pattern you described earlier is correct for a registered key.

My X sat in various places for 2.5 years without starting 1 time and when I replaced the fuel pump and the oil pump she started right up... The "Theft" light flashes until you turn on the key and if the key is correct the light stays solid...Just like yours does...

PATS is not the problem...

IF you turn the key on and then jump the starter to spin the engine I wonder if it would start...You do have the positive +12 volt line going to the starter and the smaller lead to the spade terminal on the solenoid right? Just asking an obvious question...
 






My X sat in various places for 2.5 years without starting 1 time and when I replaced the fuel pump and the oil pump she started right up... The "Theft" light flashes until you turn on the key and if the key is correct the light stays solid...Just like yours does...

PATS is not the problem...

IF you turn the key on and then jump the starter to spin the engine I wonder if it would start...You do have the positive +12 volt line going to the starter and the smaller lead to the spade terminal on the solenoid right? Just asking an obvious question...

My theft light blinks at the "normal" rate, every other second when the key is not in the ignition. Turn key to the "ON" position, all the bells and whistles light up and chime and the theft light turns off. Does not stay on or blink fast. Ill try the starter with the key on this evening when I get home. Did it with the key out and the motor turned. And yes Im pretty sure I have the wires where they are supposed to be. I hope. I have a fat black wire, which im assuming is the ground that is hooked up to the bottom screw of the starter and the slimmer one to the top. It is how my hanes book shows. I have looked in the manual and it says somethign about a starter relay and has pictures but when im looking for mine it is not where the book says. says it is between the battery and fuse box. But inside my fuse box (big one under hood) it says that relay #6 is my starter relay. anyway... i replaced that relay to see if it was bad and that did nothing. I just really dont want to take it to Ford and spend hundreds of dollars on something that it may not be. Thanks for the help guys.
 






My theft light blinks at the "normal" rate, every other second when the key is not in the ignition. Turn key to the "ON" position, all the bells and whistles light up and chime and the theft light turns off. Does not stay on or blink fast. Ill try the starter with the key on this evening when I get home. Did it with the key out and the motor turned. And yes Im pretty sure I have the wires where they are supposed to be. I hope. I have a fat black wire, which im assuming is the ground that is hooked up to the bottom screw of the starter and the slimmer one to the top. It is how my hanes book shows. I have looked in the manual and it says somethign about a starter relay and has pictures but when im looking for mine it is not where the book says. says it is between the battery and fuse box. But inside my fuse box (big one under hood) it says that relay #6 is my starter relay. anyway... i replaced that relay to see if it was bad and that did nothing. I just really dont want to take it to Ford and spend hundreds of dollars on something that it may not be. Thanks for the help guys.

The starter relay described in the Haynes book is for the 1st gen. The 95-01 does not have the same part. You found the equivalent part in the power distro box.
 






Ok so I just turned the key to the "on" position and jumped the starter with the starter relay out, truck fired right up. No theft light is on, so where do i go from here?

More info....
Key out while starter relay still in = engine turning
Key in and in the "on" postion and relay still in = no engine turn (nothing)
Key in and "on" while starter relay out = engine fires right up
 






Ok so I just turned the key to the "on" position and jumped the starter with the starter relay out, truck fired right up. No theft light is on, so where do i go from here?

More info....
Key out while starter relay still in = engine turning
Key in and in the "on" postion and relay still in = no engine turn (nothing)
Key in and "on" while starter relay out = engine fires right up

So we know the engine will start and run.
We know PATS is working fine.
We know the ignition switch works, at least in the ON ("RUN") position.

At ignition switch, check for +12V on the R/LB (red w/ light blue stripe) wire when the key is in and the switch is held in the START position. If you've got that, move on.

That voltage has to get to the starter relay, but in order to do so, it has to through one or two places along the way.

If you have a manual gearbox, it goes through the CLUTCH TRIPLE FUNCTION SWITCH (clutch/starter interlock. In going through this switch, the wire color from the ignition switch is R/LB, but leaving the switch it is pink. Might need a friend to test it, but check for +12V on the pink wire while clutch is pushed in and key is held in START. If +12V is there, you can be fairly certain the problem is your starter relay (the only other parts in the circuit are wire and the socket the relay plugs into).

Automatic transmission rigs will have a jumper plug installed in the harness where the clutch switch would have been connected. On the automatic, check for +12V on the pink wire to verify that the jumper is doing its job. The next place to check on the automatic is the range sensor. If everything worked before the swap, it is unlikely that the range sensor randomly failed on the transmission - much more likely that the wiring to/from it would be a culprit. The connector may have gotten dislodged or damaged during the engine swap. The connector is on the side of the transmission, fairly close to the fuel filter. Probably has 8 pins, although it could have 11. Check the sensor for continuity between pins 1 and 4, with the automatic in PARK (or NEUTRAL). This sensor is the interlock that prevents the starter from running unless the transmission is in P or N. Must have continuity between 1 and 4 for starter to work. If continuity is there, reconnect the plug. If the harness does not look damaged, go buy a new starter relay, 'cause all that is left is wire and the relay socket.
 






So I just went out and for some reason I looked again at the distro box and noticed a blown mini fuse #14 Generator/Voltage Regulator fuse is blown. I didnt notice that before but when I tried to replace the fuse it popped, again and again. So, I have a short somewhere but where do I start looking and would this be a cause to my problem?
 






15A fuse?

That is power to the voltage regulator and alternator field winding. Without it, the alternator will have no output. It is not causing the starting problem. Disconnect the small harness from the alternator and try replacing the fuse. If it does not pop, then the wiring harness is fine and the voltage regulator is bad. If the fuse pops with the harness unplugged, then the short is in the wiring, not the VR.
 






Its a 30amp fuse. And I'll go check that out now. Damn it! Im so ####ing sick of this piece of ****. I never had this problem with the other motor. I mean how damn hard is it to just take a motor out and put the same damn motor in. plug and play and nothing ####in works!!!
 






just to throw this out there for you
I just put a 97 engine in a 98 truck and had to swap the engine harness as there were some differences to the pin locations and configuration of the wires.
This is in the UK but the trucks were built there so i assume not so different.
Might be worth comparing the two harnesses and check that the same color wires are in the same pin locations
Regards
 






I solve my problem. It was the wire harness from the transmission to engine not snap in correctly, it wasn't making good connections. 97 engine is not a plug and play swap to a 98. You must change the wire harness.
 



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I dont have the "older" engine or the harness or anything else that goes with it. And what wire harness are you talking about? The one that is actually on the motor? So whats that mean then? I have to hope to god that I can find a '98 at the junk yard and hope that the harness on that motor is good and rip it out? This is starting to become more trouble then its worth.
 






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