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Everything you wanted to know about: "Memory Seats"

NICE59FORDF100

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Any thoughts on the -12V reference on the 1998 - 2001 schematics for the LG/Y wire from C346 ? This looks like it could be a significant detail but I don't know. Thanks

What you are seeing as the negative sign (-) is actually the upper portion of the number one (1) in the diagram. It's just that when I copied the images on here, it lost a tinny bit of clarity. That circuit is just voltage that is hot at all times.
 



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NICE59FORDF100

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Thanks Russell. As i mentioned in an earlier post, I have all functions except the memory capability working right now. The body side harness that I am going to use is not pretty but i can clean that up somewhat when I do the actual install.


Here's the connector view of C346 for the driver seat connection to the body harness in the floor. Top view is the body connector (the one that you said came from an expedition) and bottom view is of the connector under the seat. Note: Some wires are not shown in the lower view. If you have wires there, they correspond with the wire colors in the top view.

98_Memory_seat_9.jpg
 






CDW6212R

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Thanks Russell.

I am trying to wire up my '00 seats as '00's as they are going in an '02 Sport. My research has indicated that the physical switch is the same over the various years but that that some of the pinouts - and wire color connections - have changed. From reading the thread I think I saw that with memory seats the routing to the motors is via the memory module.

Is it correct to conclude that if the motors all function - using the valence switches - up/down, back/forward, etc - that the memory module is functioning ?

This makes me think that if the memory module died for some reason then the memory equipped seat could not be adjusted... This doesn't seem right to me but I dunno...


As I am using a body side harness of unknown origin - the connector is the correct one and most of the wire colors/gauges look correct - especially the larger gauge wires for seat power/heat - color matching has become a bit of a challenge - and my old eyes don't help the situation either.

As i mentioned in an earlier post, I have all functions except the memory capability working right now. The body side harness that I am going to use is not pretty but i can clean that up somewhat when I do the actual install.

One test hookup I tried made the switch indicator light be always on ... not correct of course, but seems to indicate that at least some of the components are working - at least the indicator light in the switch. I have yet to be able to program a position or even have it look like the memory system is waiting for me to select a position number.

It looks like diagnostics/troubleshooting on my '00 module is now done a different way using diagnostic tools that I don't have available to me.

Any thoughts on the -12V reference on the 1998 - 2001 schematics for the LG/Y wire from C346 ? This looks like it could be a significant detail but I don't know.

Thanks

If you have it all working but the memory function, I'd bet on the "Park/Neutral" wire not being energized yet. I believe Russell indicated that it is a power wire that only receives it in park or neutral.
 






rolleye

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I am testing the seat connections outside of the vehicle in a test bench environment so changes are very simple to test.

Just now I just verified the functionality of the seats without having the memory switch connected to any circuit.

Connection colors are the colors on the seat attached harness. A picture of my seat side connector is below - though it has the same number of pins as posted by Russell it is a different connector format.

Here are my connections.

Power:
  • R/LB - seat side there a 2 R/LB wires on the pin
  • LB/WH - larger guage, heat feed I think
  • LG/Y
  • GY/Y - if disconnected no heat, heat switch does not illuminate

Ground: I expected only 1 ground connection but ....
  • BLACK - as expected
  • BLACK/WHITE - if disconnected from ground then seat movement motors do not work. Appears other functions do work: heat & lumbar

Curiouser & curioser.

My seat side connector - 11 of 12 pins populated - smaller gauge B/W no connection to anything. The form factor of my connector is different than the one posted by Russell.

picture.php


The seat memory switch was not connected when I did these tests.

So it looks like I can bypass the memory switch and still have a functioning seat ... might be the way I will go though I would prefer to have the functionality of the memory switch.
 






NICE59FORDF100

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If your question was whether or not the seat will function without the memory switch attached, then yes, it will. Im sorry, I thought I had mentioned that in my first post. Once you have everything conencted, it's just a matter of running the four wires for the memory switch to the DSM, and the two wires else where (Hot at all times/ground)
 






rolleye

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If your question was whether or not the seat will function without the memory switch attached, then yes, it will. Im sorry, I thought I had mentioned that in my first post. Once you have everything conencted, it's just a matter of running the four wires for the memory switch to the DSM, and the two wires else where (Hot at all times/ground)

I probably missed it Russell - that the system would function without the memory component. I think I read that with the memory harness the power for the motors is run through the memory module and then came to the incorrect conclusion that if the memory components are not connected then the motors would not function .... my bad. It doesn't make sense that the overall system would work that way either.

I only posted my success without the switch connected because Don - a few posts up - mentioned that some other folks had been unable to get the seats to do anything at some point. I also read an older thread by a fellow who swapped harnesses - from memory to non memory - because he couldn't get the seats to do anything.

So my next step is to try and get the switch working, and if successful, I think I will try to swap the memory track/harness from the '94 seats that I have for use on the passenger side. Leather/power/heated/lumbar - especially heat is good enough for me. The memory functionality might actually be more useful on the passenger side of my 2 door as I could set a fully forward position for when I need rear access. I suppose it might just be easier - if I get the switch working - to simply swap the passenger side track/harness - and the heater module - onto the driver side and vice versa. The '00 tracks are maybe a better choice because of their age though my '94 tracks are very very clean.

Thanks for your ongoing input and attention to the thread Russell !! My intent was not to hijack the thread but to try and add what I have found as well as learn how the system is designed to function. The details have been very useful to me even though I am not 100% successful yet - thanks for starting it.

Cheers
 






CDW6212R

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Ditto, thanks to you both as well. Those real world tests help me with my spare 99 seat, to figure out if its issue is the module or something else. I recently had to hot wire seats in a junkyard to remove them, so next I was going to directly hot wire the memory motors to check those.

Your tests tell me that the two grounds are not connected within the seat, and I wondered if they were. That would help anyone trying to retrofit these memory seats without using the whole system.
 






NICE59FORDF100

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I'm glad to hear everything is working out! And thanks for the props, im just trying to give back what I know LOL
 






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Here's the connector view of C346 for the driver seat connection to the body harness in the floor. Top view is the body connector (the one that you said came from an expedition) and bottom view is of the connector under the seat. Note: Some wires are not shown in the lower view. If you have wires there, they correspond with the wire colors in the top view.

98_Memory_seat_9.jpg

I have seats from a Explorer Limited but I am not sure what year they were from. When I bought the seats I did not realize I would need to pull the body connector. I did however pull about a foot of the harness with the body side connection which looks like the above C346 with two exceptions. The number 7 post is LB/WH and the number 11 post is GY/YE. I realize I can pull the plug apart and repin these. My question is I will need to look for a complete body harness from a junkyard/craigslist but I do not know what years/models to look for.

Can someone let me know what model/years I can pull a body harness from? I have a line on a 2000 Expedition w/memory seats that I may be able to get the harness from. Will this work?

For reference here are a few shots of my plug in question-

IMG_0288.jpg


IMG_0287.jpg


Thanks!
 






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If you have it all working but the memory function, I'd bet on the "Park/Neutral" wire not being energized yet. I believe Russell indicated that it is a power wire that only receives it in park or neutral.

I am actually working on an issue I believe to be the module. This is a 1996 version of memory seat. The self tests all pass. Everything checks out. The LED on the module flashes the correct code...5 and 2 I believe. The LED on the set switch flashes as well. Yet it will no longer allow me to set the memory. I've had an intermittent issue in the past with this, but now when I push 'set', I get no light...and there are no positions stored. Of course, the seat won't move when you hit 1 or 2. The seat moves fine otherwise. All wires check out. (I had it all apart and checked for continuity of all circuits)

So I see your comment here and say hmmmm..... I look into it and the circuit that does check for park and neutral is indeed there, but it's a strange duck to say the least. What it does is go hot in start only, and is grounded in park and neutral. (according to Ford diagrams) But they show absolutely nothing to indicated what is triggering the module that it is in park or neutral. Nothing. Just circuit 1000...which is hot in start only. (which means it's in park or neutral.) But once start is complete, what is telling the module what gear you are in? I need to do some more work here.

I think your suggestion has given me pause. You may have my problem as everything else checks out. I was convinced it had to be a module...you know...if everything else checks out, that is always the last resort. Thank you very much for the suggestion.
 






CDW6212R

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I am actually working on an issue I believe to be the module. This is a 1996 version of memory seat. The self tests all pass. Everything checks out. The LED on the module flashes the correct code...5 and 2 I believe. The LED on the set switch flashes as well. Yet it will no longer allow me to set the memory. I've had an intermittent issue in the past with this, but now when I push 'set', I get no light...and there are no positions stored. Of course, the seat won't move when you hit 1 or 2. The seat moves fine otherwise. All wires check out. (I had it all apart and checked for continuity of all circuits)

So I see your comment here and say hmmmm..... I look into it and the circuit that does check for park and neutral is indeed there, but it's a strange duck to say the least. What it does is go hot in start only, and is grounded in park and neutral. (according to Ford diagrams) But they show absolutely nothing to indicated what is triggering the module that it is in park or neutral. Nothing. Just circuit 1000...which is hot in start only. (which means it's in park or neutral.) But once start is complete, what is telling the module what gear you are in? I need to do some more work here.

I think your suggestion has given me pause. You may have my problem as everything else checks out. I was convinced it had to be a module...you know...if everything else checks out, that is always the last resort. Thank you very much for the suggestion.

Hi guys, I miss being here. I've been busy and had forgotten my password, with no access to my email from this new PC. I finally got Comcast to fix my account, they had somehow years ago created a 2nd account for me, with this one email address tied to it. The new Xfinity group would not recognize the other account(me), and fix the email etc. I made them do it today, now I can figure out the new PC email program next.


For the memory seat, have you tried carefully grounding the trigger(Park/Neutral) wire to see if that will enable the module to work? I'm taking from your post that it is indeed a ground signal, and I love those(safer).
 






Cobraguy

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Hi guys, I miss being here. I've been busy and had forgotten my password, with no access to my email from this new PC. I finally got Comcast to fix my account, they had somehow years ago created a 2nd account for me, with this one email address tied to it. The new Xfinity group would not recognize the other account(me), and fix the email etc. I made them do it today, now I can figure out the new PC email program next.


For the memory seat, have you tried carefully grounding the trigger(Park/Neutral) wire to see if that will enable the module to work? I'm taking from your post that it is indeed a ground signal, and I love those(safer).

Hi Don! Good to hear from you again.

My problem is I can't determine what circuit the ground signal is on. The factory wiring diagrams aren't very specific. There is one circuit that is hot in start which would tell it that it was in park or neutral. But I can't determine how that is translating to a ground signal in park or neutral. I really think this may have a tie in to the GEM module...but I'm having difficulty with that as well. The factory wiring diagram states clearly it looks for a ground signal in park and neutral...but I'll be damned if it says where it gets it.
 






CDW6212R

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It does go to the GEM, I might have mentioned that years ago. When I rebuilt my 99, I traced the wires for the main body harness which had been cut through(I had to use a 2000 XLT harness and move a few from the cut Limited harness(Including the memory seat wires)).

The magic wire is a very small black/red wire, going to the GEM, but unfortunately there are several wires the same color and size throughout the dash and body. I traced it to the corner of one of the GEM connectors, I've forgotten which one now.

So start with the GEM connectors, locate all of the black/red wires going into them. Check the wiring diagrams for the circuits of those wires. Hopefully only one of those circuits will suggest a relation to the trans, neutral or park etc.
 






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The magic wire is a very small black/red wire, going to the GEM

That is GREAT information Don. That means it's circuit 1000 (rd/blk) that is hot in start at it's beginning. Somewhere the GEM must ground it to allow the starter to engage in neutral and park. I figured the GEM had to do something with it.

Thanks for your input Don. I'm going to see if this fixes the issue.

If I recall, you were going to install a memory seat in your passenger seat as well. How did that go?
 






CDW6212R

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I'm glad to help.

For myself I'll just say that work and other family issues have again stopped me from doing much. I recently did clean out one side of my garage so I can use that to work in. I've had no work space except outside or at a friend's house since 2007(ouch that's a long time).

I did find(my friend's brother) a man who does great upholstery work, apparently. I'm in great need to restore my 91 Mark VII before my truck gets much attention. I hope to get it ready to have painted this Spring.

My truck needs work too, the main items to be the BW4406 swap with trans, AC repair(blend door maybe), the rear hatch(and 02-05 Sport glass/wiper), 3" exhaust, stereo, memory seat, e-fan, three new gauges(pods), seats(aftermarket and brackets), and bigger big brakes(calipers). I expect to get something done this season, maybe the Kenne Bell SC if nothing gets in the way. I'll get it painted also if I can get much of this done. :salute:
 






Cobraguy

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I was able to finally get my Mark VIII fan in my Explorer. It took a lot of work, but it's in there and it sure works well. I don't think the fan has ever had to run on high speed...and that's in the heat of Arizona. I built my own controller and it works extremely well...other than it's not PWM. If I had to do it again, I would probably just use the latest controller from Dakota Digital. If I insisted on PWM, I would go with the controller from Painless. But the one from Dakota seems to be the best bargain.

I sure hope you get to find the time and energy to work on your stuff. Man...I would go nuts without something to tinker on. I purchases an 01 Trans Am to play with...mainly because my son has a CTS-V and I wanted something similar so we could be working on the same things. But I'll have another Mustang in some configuration or another (Cobra, GT500, etc) some day soon. I'm tired of working on those damn Chevrolets! :)
 






CDW6212R

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Cool, keep at it.

Did you want the Mark VIII fan for extra insurance, or did the Flexlite fan have some kind of issue?
 






Cobraguy

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Actually, the Flex-a-lite died on me. The motor died. I was disappointed it didn't last any longer than it did. It's not like it sees a lot of moisture, etc here. But when it was alive, it performed extremely well. So I had a Mark VIII fan. I knew I couldn't use the Spal controller with it, so I built my own using relays, timers, speed controller, etc. Then the fun part was getting it mounted in a 99. First thing that had to happen was the radiator. Had to go to a 2000-2001 that utilizes the thinner (but much more efficient) radiator in the 5.0. I had to space the lower mounts a bit forward. I had to cut the threads off the water pump. That really concerned me as I didn't really know what would be left to hold on the pulley. But I shouldn't have been. Many miles into this and there has been absolutely no problem. I utilized a BMW temp switch that comes on at two different temps to control low and high speed. It's never seen high speed other than when I manually switch it. Darn thing really works well.

If I had it to do over again, I might try a fan from a 2004-2006 Mercedes CLK320/350. Those things are incredibly thin and...my God...you should see the air they can move. It is unbelievable when those things kick on to high. They are integrated with the controller, so a person would have to work around that somehow...but it's the most bang for the buck I have ever seen. I suspect they are thin enough to avoid a lot of the issues with the Mark VIII fan. I'm going to grab one and hang on to it for the next project. :)
 






CDW6212R

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Actually, the Flex-a-lite died on me. The motor died. I was disappointed it didn't last any longer than it did. It's not like it sees a lot of moisture, etc here. But when it was alive, it performed extremely well. So I had a Mark VIII fan. I knew I couldn't use the Spal controller with it, so I built my own using relays, timers, speed controller, etc. Then the fun part was getting it mounted in a 99. First thing that had to happen was the radiator. Had to go to a 2000-2001 that utilizes the thinner (but much more efficient) radiator in the 5.0. I had to space the lower mounts a bit forward. I had to cut the threads off the water pump. That really concerned me as I didn't really know what would be left to hold on the pulley. But I shouldn't have been. Many miles into this and there has been absolutely no problem. I utilized a BMW temp switch that comes on at two different temps to control low and high speed. It's never seen high speed other than when I manually switch it. Darn thing really works well.

If I had it to do over again, I might try a fan from a 2004-2006 Mercedes CLK320/350. Those things are incredibly thin and...my God...you should see the air they can move. It is unbelievable when those things kick on to high. They are integrated with the controller, so a person would have to work around that somehow...but it's the most bang for the buck I have ever seen. I suspect they are thin enough to avoid a lot of the issues with the Mark VIII fan. I'm going to grab one and hang on to it for the next project. :)

Very good, let me know how that fan can work out. I have the 180 fan and a new thick radiator, so I'll do that, These radiators are very efficient yes, but I'd like to stick with the thick one if possible(supercharger and unknown heat etc).

I also have a Mark VIII fan, I plan to put that into my Mark VII with the 347 this Spring.
 



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Fredridge

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any chance you could help with a 2011+?

I have a 2011 XLT. it has the 6-way power seat.

what would it take on the 2011 to add memory? I am guessing it would be similar to the others, but want to be sure.

can you help with similar diagrams, part no's, etc?

thanks
 






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