Explorer 4.6 phaser knock

[mkll]

Good evening! My name is Mickle, i own 2009 explorer 4.6 3v with only 60k miles and have few problems which a cannot solve.
1) When the engine is completely hot- a have a passenger side phaser knock. I changed it with new oem ford phaser, but the knocking sound did not dissapear, it only became i little bit less noticable...What is my next step to solve this problem? Tried different oils, including 5w30 and 5w40-
2) My second problem is that i have engine vibration at 1250-1300 rpm when transmition is in park or neutral. New spark plugs did not help...
Have this problems for more than 1 year...Maybe some one knows what should i do in order to solve them.. Thank you!

 

[94Eddie]

Have you replaced the VVT solenoid? It insures the proper amount of oil at the right pressure is routed to the phaser. These can go bad on occasion causing issues. Also, the valve roller followers can go bad and cause ticking or knocking noises. Have you checked for any codes that might be showing up?

 

[Fix4Dirt]

+1 for the solenoid easy for the screen to get plugged iirc

 

[mkll]

Have you replaced the VVT solenoid? It insures the proper amount of oil at the right pressure is routed to the phaser. These can go bad on occasion causing issues. Also, the valve roller followers can go bad and cause ticking or knocking noises. Have you checked for any codes that might be showing up?

No, I did not change the solenoid, because when i opened a valve cover for phaser replacement everything looked like new, roller followers are ok. The ticking noise appears only on hot idle, so it is definitely not the rollers, because they tick constantly…no codes.
Do you think that VCT solenoid can fail at 60k miles?

 

[94Eddie]

No, I did not change the solenoid, because when i opened a valve cover for phaser replacement everything looked like new, roller followers are ok. The ticking noise appears only on hot idle, so it is definitely not the rollers, because they tick constantly…no codes.
Do you think that VCT solenoid can fail at 60k miles?

Anything is possible. The screens in the solenoids can dislodge and mess with oil flow and pressure to the phasers. I recently removed the passenger side valve cover on my Mountaineer to fix an oil leak and while in there I pulled the solenoid. The screens were dislodged and not in the proper location. I didn't have any signs this was causing a problem but it would have eventually. The head and cam was squeaky clean like yours which isn't too unusual on the passenger side if frequent oil changes are done. While the valve cover is off check for a bad (loose) roller follower. Look for abnormal wear on the cam lobes too. If changing out the phaser didn't stop the noise then it wasn't the phaser causing the problem. This is why I suggest changing the VVT solenoid. Plus, I think that many times some parts can go bad from age and/or lack of use and not high mileage. The stumble could also be caused by a timing issue. Fixing the knock might fix the stumble. VVT solenoids aren't expensive. The OEM Ford part runs around $70 and I highly recommend using a ford part.

 

[mkll]

Anything is possible. The screens in the solenoids can dislodge and mess with oil flow and pressure to the phasers. I recently removed the passenger side valve cover on my Mountaineer to fix an oil leak and while in there I pulled the solenoid. The screens were dislodged and not in the proper location. I didn't have any signs this was causing a problem but it would have eventually. The head and cam was squeaky clean like yours which isn't too unusual on the passenger side if frequent oil changes are done. While the valve cover is off check for a bad (loose) roller follower. Look for abnormal wear on the cam lobes too. If changing out the phaser didn't stop the noise then it wasn't the phaser causing the problem. This is why I suggest changing the VVT solenoid. Plus, I think that many times some parts can go bad from age and/or lack of use and not high mileage. The stumble could also be caused by a timing issue. Fixing the knock might fix the stumble. VVT solenoids aren't expensive. The OEM Ford part runs around $70 and I highly recommend using a ford part.

Thank you, I will try replacing the solenoid…i didn’t do it because when I took it out while changing the phaser-the solenoid looked like new, no signs of dislodge…but will still change in..
What do you thing of engine vibration at around 1250 rpm? Can it appear because of bad throttle position sensor? But still-I don’t have any codes…

 

[Bazz270]

did you check the engine/transmission mounts? driveshaft components? 6R transmission issues ?

the ticking noise could be the bad manifold studs regular 4.6/5.4 engine issue.

take the manifolds heat screen off and look for the exhaust leaks.

 

[94Eddie]

Thank you, I will try replacing the solenoid…i didn’t do it because when I took it out while changing the phaser-the solenoid looked like new, no signs of dislodge…but will still change in..
What do you thing of engine vibration at around 1250 rpm? Can it appear because of bad throttle position sensor? But still-I don’t have any codes…

I don't know if the VVT solenoid will fix it but it is worth a try, IMO. Just be sure and check the roller followers while the valve cover is off.

The vibration is a tough one to speculate on without a code being tripped. I just dealt with a TPS problem and it tripped a couple of codes and put the engine in limp mode. Just before this would happen the engine ran fine with no sign of having an issue. It seems to me that if it was a TPS then you would see a code for it. It doesn't take much voltage deviation between the two readings from the TPS to trip codes. Does the misfire happen consistently under the same conditions? Does it happen only when it rains or just after a rain? Does it happen at very light throttle?

 

[1.8TTony]

Plus, I think that many times some parts can go bad from age and/or lack of use and not high mileage.

Volkswagen owners around the world agree with this opinion.

 

[mkll]

did you check the engine/transmission mounts? driveshaft components? 6R transmission issues ?

the ticking noise could be the bad manifold studs regular 4.6/5.4 engine issue.

take the manifolds heat screen off and look for the exhaust leaks.

Yes, I checked all the mount-they are good. Is definitely not the manifold studs, because in case of bad manifold studs the ticking usually appears at cold start for 30-40 seconds (already had this problem on me previous Explorer 06 v8).

 

[mkll]

I don't know if the VVT solenoid will fix it but it is worth a try, IMO. Just be sure and check the roller followers while the valve cover is off.

The vibration is a tough one to speculate on without a code being tripped. I just dealt with a TPS problem and it tripped a couple of codes and put the engine in limp mode. Just before this would happen the engine ran fine with no sign of having an issue. It seems to me that if it was a TPS then you would see a code for it. It doesn't take much voltage deviation between the two readings from the TPS to trip codes. Does the misfire happen consistently under the same conditions? Does it happen only when it rains or just after a rain? Does it happen at very light throttle?

In my case vibration occurs only between 1250 and 1350 rpm (you can feel it when transmission is in park or neutral while pushing the gas and holding this rmp..). While driving is not noticeable (I think because of overall vehicle moving and road sound). This vibration occurs always, during rainy weather and not..at very light throttle doesn’t happen, only between 1250 and 1350 rpm..

 

[94Eddie]

In my case vibration occurs only between 1250 and 1350 rpm (you can feel it when transmission is in park or neutral while pushing the gas and holding this rmp..). While driving is not noticeable (I think because of overall vehicle moving and road sound). This vibration occurs always, during rainy weather and not..at very light throttle doesn’t happen, only between 1250 and 1350 rpm..

There aren't many moving parts in the transmission when it is in park or neutral so I think the odds of the problem being with the transmission is low. Maybe the torque convertor but then the fact it drives normally says no to this too, IMO. Maybe some detailed data logging would shed so light on what is causing it.

 

[Bazz270]

How did you checked the mounts without takin em off the car?it sound like a classic engine mounts issue to me.

Outer on-vehicle visual check means nothing...

Anyways

If you are out of the ideas,
Use factory workshop manual symptom charts.

 

[mkll]

How did you checked the mounts without takin em off the car?it sound like a classic engine mounts issue to me.

Outer on-vehicle visual check means nothing...

Anyways

If you are out of the ideas,
Use factory workshop manual symptom charts.

There are no any cracks on the rubber, and if I had broken mounts, why there is no vibration under 1250 and above 1350 rpm?

 

[boominXplorer]

You got one of 2 things potentially happening. A bad rocker / lash adjuster on one cylinder or cam not holding vvt timing. Is the noise only at idle or do you hear it thru the rpm range? Usually when I see vibration at low rpm and missfires on all 4 cylinders on a bank it's a guaranteed vvt issue.

 

[mkll]

You got one of 2 things potentially happening. A bad rocker / lash adjuster on one cylinder or cam not holding vvt timing. Is the noise only at idle or do you hear it thru the rpm range? Usually when I see vibration at low rpm and missfires on all 4 cylinders on a bank it's a guaranteed vvt issue.

The noise appears only at idle, can hear it up to apr. 1000 rpm. Tried today 0w40 oil-the knock is much quieter but still there. As i changed the phaser and the knock did not disappear-I think I may have problems with oil pressure…but in my case at 60 k miles only I don’t want to believed that I need to change the whole timing to get rid of this knock (

 

[Fix4Dirt]

The noise appears only at idle, can hear it up to apr. 1000 rpm. Tried today 0w40 oil-the knock is much quieter but still there. As i changed the phaser and the knock did not disappear-I think I may have problems with oil pressure…but in my case at 60 k miles only I don’t want to believed that I need to change the whole timing to get rid of this knock (

i still think plugged solenoid imo maybe. can you read Oil pressure/

 

[Bazz270]

There are no any cracks on the rubber, and if I had broken mounts, why there is no vibration under 1250 and above 1350 rpm?

Because of the resonance frequency.the resonance effect happens on the several frequencies only.

Resonance happens when the working engine frequency meet the natural engine mount frequency.

When engine mount became cracked/age or weight deformed ,natural frequency changes.

Usually , the exact rpm resonance effect range will tell you what component works on this exact range of frequency.even the exact component diameter in some cases.

One of the theories only..i dont really believe on virtual vehicle diagnosis.it could be 1001 reason for the knocks and noises in this vehicle lol.starts from the second phaser and ends in whatever camshaft component

 

[Bazz270]

The noise appears only at idle, can hear it up to apr. 1000 rpm. Tried today 0w40 oil-the knock is much quieter but still there. As i changed the phaser and the knock did not disappear-I think I may have problems with oil pressure…but in my case at 60 k miles only I don’t want to believed that I need to change the whole timing to get rid of this knock (

i still think plugged solenoid imo maybe. can you read Oil pressure/

Basically,if the original vehicle oil pressure sender is good,there is no reason for abnormal pressure reads on manual oil gauges.

 

[mkll]

i still think plugged solenoid imo maybe. can you read Oil pressure/

Here is a foto of my solenoid, it looked like new, so I decided not to change it…but still we do that, because I have a new one, which I bought couple of years ago
<a href="79B4C15E 3B1B 4115 BF0B 118928CEBB08"><img src="https://iili.io/HoMtILl.th.png" alt="HoMtILl.th.png" border="0"></a>
Thank everyone for help and ideas, will try to find ford scanner tool for deep diagnostic