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IFS Heavy Duty Upgrades!
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MAS Tequila
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I'll tell you something.
I did the torsion bolt tightening lift and absolutely hated it.
It rode like a worn out dump truck.
Then I put the torsion lift keys in as well as the KYB shocks for the 2" lift and it rides better than it did when it was stock.
Not only that, but with the new heavier springs and add-a-leafs in the back it handles like a dream.
There are a lot of naysayers who have never tried this set up, and anyone who makes their way to south Florida is welcome to come and go for a ride.
I did the torsion bolt tightening lift and absolutely hated it.
It rode like a worn out dump truck.
Then I put the torsion lift keys in as well as the KYB shocks for the 2" lift and it rides better than it did when it was stock.
Not only that, but with the new heavier springs and add-a-leafs in the back it handles like a dream.
There are a lot of naysayers who have never tried this set up, and anyone who makes their way to south Florida is welcome to come and go for a ride.
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Sorry to hear that.
I had the opposite effect, with the shocks I used. Night & day difference from the T-Bars for me. It's stiffer with the coils needed, but soft & comfy at the same time.
ahodges
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I'll tell you something else. The brand/ type of shocks you have, the type of tires you run, and the inflation you run them at makes the biggest difference of all. Monroe Reflex shocks are a very harsh ride (I've had them). I have the FX4 Ranger torsion bars on mine with them twisted some (not maxed out), Monroe Sensatrac shocks, and 30.5" tires. I couldn't be happier with the ride. This is has nothing to do with the topic of the tread but I thought I would throw that out there.
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Ditto, the spring type is minor. The shocks, tires, and how the control arms are angled at ride height, those factors are big. I've had three 2nd gens with different heights and shocks. I haven't called any of them soft riding, and my Mercury with softer stock springs was more trouble to get a good ride. The old rear leafs make it seem bad because they bottom out easily(always did), so stiffening the front(B bars) with Bilstein's didn't seem to help much.
I'd like to think that the coil over springs could be better with near level control arms. I'll see I hope.
I'd like to think that the coil over springs could be better with near level control arms. I'll see I hope.
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What really helped me was swapping in some #1 t bars over the original B bars which rode teeth chattering stiff after the TT. It rides like factory now I put in some rancho rs5000 1"-2" lift shocks up front they helped some, the sensa track load leveler shocks in the rear and really made a very noticeable improvement. I feel you should match your weight to your springs, next up is some ARB ome 1.5" lift leaf packs in the rear to replace the worn out factory springs, I have a winch (80#), skid plate (30#), and extra metal, tow hooks, mounting plate, 2"receiver, and frame reinforcements, for a total of ~130#'s up front plus all the other add on stuff throughout probably adds another few hundred pounds all of which really makes a huge difference when you upgrade your spring's. My ex (recently I've claimed otherwise) actually rides pretty smooth overall, although it is a little on the stiff side hitting flaws on the road or lack thereof at medium speeds but I can't really complain to much about that because it doesn't affect control at all.
BTW I noticed the control arms and stuff mentioned earlier in the thread are not available any more maybe someone produce an updated stock replacement upgrade lists? I used the mevotech premium x factor line which is pretty much the same as there terrain tough series (different color boots) have a lifetime warranty and have been pleased so far, although the motorcraft parts it replaced were still good after ten years of abuse. the now AC DELCO stuff (Rock Auto) resemble the raybesto,MN stuff mentioned at the start of this thread.
BTW I noticed the control arms and stuff mentioned earlier in the thread are not available any more maybe someone produce an updated stock replacement upgrade lists? I used the mevotech premium x factor line which is pretty much the same as there terrain tough series (different color boots) have a lifetime warranty and have been pleased so far, although the motorcraft parts it replaced were still good after ten years of abuse. the now AC DELCO stuff (Rock Auto) resemble the raybesto,MN stuff mentioned at the start of this thread.
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bigred4x4, last time I updated anything here was in 2015. My bad. Here is the last quick search I did using mostly amazon for the Raybestos parts someone asked for.
I have tried to edit the first post, but the new format won't let me. It wants me to add 10 images. WTF?
I have tried to edit the first post, but the new format won't let me. It wants me to add 10 images. WTF?
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You also used FOA shocks where most of us use Fox (I did). Not sure what valving they use but it could be the issue.
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I know I'm just Joe Shmoe behind a screen name, but I've worked in the off road industry for a decade, I've set up custom front ends on probably over 100 trucks. I also own an offroad suspension company. I sell King, Fox, and FOA shocks. I have a good buddy that works at FOA and that's why I chose them. I didn't use an off the shelf shock, my shocks were custom built and valved for my application (not saying they are ideal yet though!). I also have BTF uniball upper control arms.
The issue with these trucks is their stock geometry, and shock mounting limitations. The shock has to be too straight up and down, and the big lean backwards does not help either. Both of these things force you to use a spring rate that is just too heavy for these trucks. Here's another example: Myself and I a buddy had identical suspension on our 94's. We both ditched the coilbucket and went to coilovers. I put mine in the most ideal spot, but got a little tire rub on my coil. My buddy didn't like that so he moved the shock into a less ideal location. Two identical trucks, with identical suspension and shocks, and he ran a spring rate that was 200 pounds heavier. My truck rode great, his was too stiff, and it all had to do with how the shock is positioned.
If I were to cut out and pocket the the frame, the upper shock mount could be in so much more of an ideal location. This would allow me to drop at least 100 pounds on the spring rate and eliminate a lot of the rising leverage that these trucks face as they go through their travel.
I will continue to tune and refine my front end. I'm sure that I can make it handle and ride better. So far I just don't feel like there is enough of a substantial gain to make it worth doing this. My 94 had twice the wheel travel, and rode smoother. Unless it's a long travel kit, or SAS, 2nd gens need to stay at soccer practice!
The issue with these trucks is their stock geometry, and shock mounting limitations. The shock has to be too straight up and down, and the big lean backwards does not help either. Both of these things force you to use a spring rate that is just too heavy for these trucks. Here's another example: Myself and I a buddy had identical suspension on our 94's. We both ditched the coilbucket and went to coilovers. I put mine in the most ideal spot, but got a little tire rub on my coil. My buddy didn't like that so he moved the shock into a less ideal location. Two identical trucks, with identical suspension and shocks, and he ran a spring rate that was 200 pounds heavier. My truck rode great, his was too stiff, and it all had to do with how the shock is positioned.
If I were to cut out and pocket the the frame, the upper shock mount could be in so much more of an ideal location. This would allow me to drop at least 100 pounds on the spring rate and eliminate a lot of the rising leverage that these trucks face as they go through their travel.
I will continue to tune and refine my front end. I'm sure that I can make it handle and ride better. So far I just don't feel like there is enough of a substantial gain to make it worth doing this. My 94 had twice the wheel travel, and rode smoother. Unless it's a long travel kit, or SAS, 2nd gens need to stay at soccer practice!
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I will tell you all something.
When I made this thread, it was just to help others find a stronger replacement suspension part. I had full reservations about adding a coil over to it, but after years of not adding it, I thought... Ya know....People realize that these 2nd gen SLA IFS rigs are not hardcore wheeling machines. People make threads for stupid stuff, like a new cup holder, or how to fix a dumb squeak that drives them nuts. Why not include the coil overs to it? Now, I wish I stuck to my guns and never shared them here.
This is why...
99.9% of 2nd gen owners doing the occasional driveway repair, are not skilled fabricators, nor are they hardcore off road enthusiasts, with deep pockets.
The coil over mod is a simple bolt on driveway Mod, with the exception of the gussets. In my mind, it is an upgrade from stock, albeit a pricey upgrade, the trade off is anybody can do it. Everything in this thread is simple bolt on procedure. Only reason I added it.
I do agree with the shock angles, and how they affect the ride. A true vertical mount would be way better, but that means cutting, & welding, and some interesting fabrication to make work. That's an entirely different ballgame, and belongs in a different sub forum.
All we are after, is a ride improvement over the harsh T-bars off road. The coil overs with good shocks, do just that. At least for me, and others I know that have done it. My expectations have always been realistic, full knowing that they would never be as forgiving and articulate, as well as the TTB, SAS, or Long Travel. SAS & LT costs are in the thousands, and triple what the coil overs amount too. For most, that do not want to hack the rig apart, and spend upwards of $5k, these offer an affordable option.
I don't, and most don't, trailer these rigs with mild mods. We use them as a DD, or take them to & from our destinations. That can be a trip to the doctor, or a camping trip to the mountains 1000 miles away. Once you hack it up, and change to an SAS or LT, it has become a trailer queen for long distance trips. Some drive a lifted SAS rig to a local destination, and back, but I can't believe they would do it on a weekly basis or too far from home. They did all that work, spent all that $$, and they want to use it hard, and not baby it, to make sure they get back home. Again, apples to oranges here.
To me, it comes down to what your using your rig for. Are you hardcore crawling & trail riding, moderate trail use, or street only? 2nd gen Coil over's are not for anything above moderate trails with the occasional harder obstacle. They do help going down washboard roads or smaller rock ridden trails, as the better shocks will dampen/rebound better than a stiff T-bar can. I did the swap 8 years ago. Been using the rig for mild trails, and long distance Hwy trips, and they have worked great. They help in big cities with pot hole ridden roads, and help with G-force fatigue for long term operators. They stiffen the front end, and do assist in higher speed road use.
Are they perfect? Nope, not by a long shot.
Is the rig stiff with the high rate springs? Sure is, way stiffer then I like at times.
Does it ride better than stock or just better shocks alone? Hell yeah it does.
Is the 2nd gen a hard core trail/crawler? Heck no.
Can the 2nd gen be modified to handle harder stuff and still have fun? Heck yeah.
Was it worth it? For me it was, but that is a personal preference.
At the end of the day, people have to weight out if this mod is for them, and if it is worth it or not. If we can discuss this from all sides civilly, great, have at it. People can & will learn from it. But... I will not entertain any bashing, fighting or arguing this here. I will simply close this thread for good.
When I made this thread, it was just to help others find a stronger replacement suspension part. I had full reservations about adding a coil over to it, but after years of not adding it, I thought... Ya know....People realize that these 2nd gen SLA IFS rigs are not hardcore wheeling machines. People make threads for stupid stuff, like a new cup holder, or how to fix a dumb squeak that drives them nuts. Why not include the coil overs to it? Now, I wish I stuck to my guns and never shared them here.
This is why...
99.9% of 2nd gen owners doing the occasional driveway repair, are not skilled fabricators, nor are they hardcore off road enthusiasts, with deep pockets.
The coil over mod is a simple bolt on driveway Mod, with the exception of the gussets. In my mind, it is an upgrade from stock, albeit a pricey upgrade, the trade off is anybody can do it. Everything in this thread is simple bolt on procedure. Only reason I added it.
I do agree with the shock angles, and how they affect the ride. A true vertical mount would be way better, but that means cutting, & welding, and some interesting fabrication to make work. That's an entirely different ballgame, and belongs in a different sub forum.
All we are after, is a ride improvement over the harsh T-bars off road. The coil overs with good shocks, do just that. At least for me, and others I know that have done it. My expectations have always been realistic, full knowing that they would never be as forgiving and articulate, as well as the TTB, SAS, or Long Travel. SAS & LT costs are in the thousands, and triple what the coil overs amount too. For most, that do not want to hack the rig apart, and spend upwards of $5k, these offer an affordable option.
I don't, and most don't, trailer these rigs with mild mods. We use them as a DD, or take them to & from our destinations. That can be a trip to the doctor, or a camping trip to the mountains 1000 miles away. Once you hack it up, and change to an SAS or LT, it has become a trailer queen for long distance trips. Some drive a lifted SAS rig to a local destination, and back, but I can't believe they would do it on a weekly basis or too far from home. They did all that work, spent all that $$, and they want to use it hard, and not baby it, to make sure they get back home. Again, apples to oranges here.
To me, it comes down to what your using your rig for. Are you hardcore crawling & trail riding, moderate trail use, or street only? 2nd gen Coil over's are not for anything above moderate trails with the occasional harder obstacle. They do help going down washboard roads or smaller rock ridden trails, as the better shocks will dampen/rebound better than a stiff T-bar can. I did the swap 8 years ago. Been using the rig for mild trails, and long distance Hwy trips, and they have worked great. They help in big cities with pot hole ridden roads, and help with G-force fatigue for long term operators. They stiffen the front end, and do assist in higher speed road use.
Are they perfect? Nope, not by a long shot.
Is the rig stiff with the high rate springs? Sure is, way stiffer then I like at times.
Does it ride better than stock or just better shocks alone? Hell yeah it does.
Is the 2nd gen a hard core trail/crawler? Heck no.
Can the 2nd gen be modified to handle harder stuff and still have fun? Heck yeah.
Was it worth it? For me it was, but that is a personal preference.
At the end of the day, people have to weight out if this mod is for them, and if it is worth it or not. If we can discuss this from all sides civilly, great, have at it. People can & will learn from it. But... I will not entertain any bashing, fighting or arguing this here. I will simply close this thread for good.
WormsExplorer
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Thank you Gman. I could not have said it better my self.
huskertodd
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I too thank you Gman!!!!! Don’t pay any attention to the bipolar dude. He seemed excited with previous posts and then came back pissy. With his decade of experience, having setup 100+ front ends, one would think he wouldn’t need anyones advice or ideas concerning these matters.
Awesome thread!!!!
Awesome thread!!!!
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I appreciate the great advice and details, ideas etc, that I get from this thread and many others. That's why I'm here, to help and get a little help here and there.
Have a great Thanksgiving tomorrow, eat two or three big meals. I will.
Have a great Thanksgiving tomorrow, eat two or three big meals. I will.
Centaurus5.0
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What I find amusing is that an Explorer in stock form is best suited for all round tasks equally well as far as city-hwy driving, mpg, real world offroad ability (ie:not looking for trouble), performance, reliability, longevity, etc. As soon as you start to mod the suspension or powertrain or electrical or whatever, reliably, longevity, handling, safety, etc starts diminishing rapidly and sets off a cascade of issues. A rig thats left in its stock configuration, thats well maintained with oem or higher quality replacement parts along with a good set of tires gives me the most enjoyment, least headaches and is most cost efficient overall which leaves me with more fun time and money in my pocket and less wrenching, calling, part hunting, BFHing, cursing, down time(ain't nobody got time for that!).
But! ...it would be nice to have some front coil overs on my stock rig.
But! ...it would be nice to have some front coil overs on my stock rig.
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least headaches and is most cost efficient overall which leaves me with more fun time and money in my pocket and less wrenching, calling, part hunting, BFHing, cursing, down time(ain't nobody got time for that!).g.
I hear ya lol
..... But to me it's worth it... Ehh for the most part, but for what I use it for (fun) I figure part of the hobby is working with a wrench comes with the territory, my reliable DD is a little tank of a Ford focus, 190k and still hasn't changed a bit just an alternator, battery, oil changes, and tires for the last 100k. My ex.... psh Too many hours to count how I intimately got know everything about all the tools in the garage, and searching the web for days to find answers haha. But any way,
Now Back to the topic,
One thing I've been interested in is upgraded is the tie rods. Any HD upgrades available that isn't super expensive?
Centaurus5.0
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So as I mentioned earlier, the "pro" ac delco stuff is the new Rock Auto hd options? They look exactly like the parts posted earlier in the thread but I was looking at the description and they are bland, they don't market the acdelco stuff as heavy duty in the descriptions just a lot of quality control and warranty blah blah mostly.
Centaurus5.0
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They should be the same as the Raybestos Pro Grade (Part # 4011689) gman used for his rig in the first post. But it's been 7 years ago since he started this thread and who knows who is manufacturing them now. As long it's 'Made in the USA' I would consider it a quality part no matter what name is on the box.
FYI:
There is a difference between 'Made in USA' and 'Assembled in USA' and even 'Made in U.S.'
https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/plain-language/bus03-complying-made-usa-standard.pdf
FYI:
There is a difference between 'Made in USA' and 'Assembled in USA' and even 'Made in U.S.'
https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/plain-language/bus03-complying-made-usa-standard.pdf
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If you want to wheel the crap out of your truck then heim steering needs to be considered. I snapped a tie rod on the trail before and it made me dead in my tracks. Luckily I was only 30 minutes from home and had an inner tie rod tool and spare inners at the house. It was after 9:00 at night so no parts stores were open. Since then I kept 2 extra inners and the tool to swap them out in the truck at all times.
Heim steering isn't that expensive when you compare what you get. The most expensive peice is the camburg rack adapter. My inner heims are about $50 each and my outers are $20. The tube and adapters are cheap. They do only last about 15-20k miles because of road grime getting in the joints and wearing them out but they sure won't snap on you on the trail.
I'm about to swap my outers to chevy high angle 1 ton tie rods. Only thing is the knuckles need to be reamed to do so (they have a different taper). Then I'm going to build a boot for my inner joint to keep dirt out and hopefully have a bullet proof setup then.
Heim steering isn't that expensive when you compare what you get. The most expensive peice is the camburg rack adapter. My inner heims are about $50 each and my outers are $20. The tube and adapters are cheap. They do only last about 15-20k miles because of road grime getting in the joints and wearing them out but they sure won't snap on you on the trail.
I'm about to swap my outers to chevy high angle 1 ton tie rods. Only thing is the knuckles need to be reamed to do so (they have a different taper). Then I'm going to build a boot for my inner joint to keep dirt out and hopefully have a bullet proof setup then.
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Before you change to a Heim joint TRE, check your local laws on steering configurations.
Here, they are not allowed, and will not pass safety inspections, and you won't be able to get your tags renewed. If you did the inner only with a Ball joint outer, you can use a boot on the inner to cover it up. Nobody would be the wiser.
I also carry spare Inners at all times, along with the tool. These are the weakest link on the front suspension by far. I have yet to bend one, but I have worn them out. (knocks on wood)
Here, they are not allowed, and will not pass safety inspections, and you won't be able to get your tags renewed. If you did the inner only with a Ball joint outer, you can use a boot on the inner to cover it up. Nobody would be the wiser.
I also carry spare Inners at all times, along with the tool. These are the weakest link on the front suspension by far. I have yet to bend one, but I have worn them out. (knocks on wood)
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