Jon And Sheri's Vitamin D Wagon

[MrQ]

Cheap security Turdle. Get em new. Might want to get that rotor that caliper was on machined.

 

[Turdle]

Well, this was an adventure.
Turns out the calipers are Delco. Yes, Chevrolet.
"Delco" is cast into them.

After going thru 2 stores worth of calipers I went back to the first and matched them to 2wd chevrolet truck calipers--kinda
The castings which matched the closest had standard banjo fitting threads, and, the closest we could find with metric banjo fitting threads were these.
They are a 3" spread dual bolt pin mount

However, the fitting is not an exact match,which is no biggie it will still work,but there is a clearance issue where the fitting area is, it has a raised area which will need grinding to clear the knuckle. It appears to be outsied of the fluid area though.

What to do? I am clueless as to the exact caliper, and the old ones are at the parts store as cores. I can get em back Friday though.

Oh, another thing I had to deal with.

I have no key for the keyed lug nut, one on each wheel.
Ha, some security, I pounded a Stanley grip socket on them and they zipped right off.

Need a picture of the caliper so I can show the needed trimming?

 

[gmanpaint]

Brakes?

Cybergasm wins the bet

 

[corkey]

hmmm, just a thought,, didn't Dodge use them axles too ?

maybe the calipers are really Dodge ?

 

[Turdle]

I am sure this is an early bronco front axle, and it must have a custom retrofitted gm brake setup. I am just trying to find out the conversion?

 

[rizzjc]

Screw the brakes! Just get it on the road! :

 

[Turdle]

ok, the calipers I pulled out looked like this, with a metric thread in the line hole

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/we...ne_19620056-P_1162_R|GRPBRHYAMS_830851031___#

This is the closest metric one I could find.

The area circled in green is what is hitting the knuckle. Trim it and go with em, since they fit the same pads?

These calipers were 25.00 each, loaded with pads

both the old ones and these had casting numbers of 18007

Izwack gave me another cast number

18003 533

 

[IZwack]

For reference, GM calipers I used in the D44 and same ones I will be using on the D60.

RockAuto part #s are
A-1 CARDONE -- 184122
A-1 CARDONE -- 184123

 

[Freshmeat]

Try the ones IZwack referenced- always better to find something you don't have to modify, in case you're on a trail and need to replace a caliper but don't have a grinder handy.

...and for what it's worth, your early Bronco D44 very well may have come with drum brakes originally. It's my understanding that lots of guys use the GM spindles and brakes to convert drums to discs.

Looks good so far, man. I had a whole slew of issues when I got my Ex, then a whole new list of things to fix after I swapped to the 5spd; the auto was "hiding" a lot of trouble that was revealed when it started feeling that direct force from the manual.

Keep up the good work- it's a pain in the ass now, but before long you'll have gone through the whole thing and you'll know the ins and outs of it all.

 

[Turdle]

Thanks Iz
Going now to trade these for your pictured version. They have them in stock.

 

[Turdle]

Well, Techieman33 came by for a bit, as well as Sparksaflyin.
Got the calipers in and bled, also took off the nerf bars to access the radius arm bushings. They were bolted into the radius arm brackets.

I finally was able to take this for a drive, and yes there is a power issue. This thing will not get out of it's own way, and 40mph is not attainable.

I think I am now into this issue

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160107

Any ideas?

 

[dejello]

Well, Techieman33 came by for a bit, as wel as Sparksafyin.
Got the calipers in and bled, also took off the nerf bars to access the radius are bushings.

I finally was able to take this for a drive, and yes there is a power issue. This thing will not get out of it's own way, and 40mph is not attainable.

I think I am now into this issue

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160107

Any ideas?

I forgot to ask in the other thread, the motor that's in there now: What year was it? If it was a 93, was it from a Cali truck or not? The motor that was in it was not a Cali motor. The computer I put in it was not a Cali computer (the Cali one was looking for emissions devices that weren't on the old motor). The wiring harness was/is a Cali harness, modified to work on the non Cali setup. Aside from one code I could not clear (I can't recall what it was), the motor ran well and went highway speeds with no problems.

Basically, here's the setup when you bought it:

Originally a 1993 from Cali (apparently that year had 49 state legal, and Cali).

--Motor, year unknown (not original), presumed non Cali as it was missing points to even mount some extra emissions equipment (which were also missing naturally).

-- Computer, non Cali to match the non Cali motor. When I bought the truck, it had the original Cali computer which was throwing all kinds of codes because the emissions stuff wasn't there. Replacing the computer fixed most of the issues.

-- Wiring harness, presumed original Cali harness. I only pulled and spliced 4 wires iirc. This was due to the non Cali computer controlled 2 banks of spark plugs, instead of each plug by itself (like the Cali computer did).

If you are returning everything back to a Cali setup, you will need to remove the splices at the computer side of the harness and put the wires back into the connector as they originally were. I'm sure you can find a diagram somewhere. I'm sorry but I didn't feel like running back through the 12 pages I missed to get all relevant information, but I will try to help you as I can. From what I read in your last post, it seems like you're having the same problems I was having when we bought the truck.

 

[james t]

Sorry i didnt see this until now-

Your brakes are the common/best/easy early Bronco disc swap. You use the stock EB drum brake knuckles, with small bearing GM spindles, calipers, and caliper brackets with F150 hubs and rotors. This stuff is 70-something GM half ton Dana44. Not to be confused with 78-up 10 bolt. If you ever find yourself in a parts store again, just call it a "76 chevy half ton 4x4 with 350" and you're good to go.

When doing this the caliper and/or knuckle has to be ground on in order to get clearance. I grind the knuckle so no need to mess with calipers but it can be done either way.

 

[Turdle]

I forgot to ask in the other thread, the motor that's in there now: What year was it? If it was a 93, was it from a Cali truck or not? The motor that was in it was not a Cali motor. The computer I put in it was not a Cali computer (the Cali one was looking for emissions devices that weren't on the old motor). The wiring harness was/is a Cali harness, modified to work on the non Cali setup. Aside from one code I could not clear (I can't recall what it was), the motor ran well and went highway speeds with no problems.

Basically, here's the setup when you bought it:

Originally a 1993 from Cali (apparently that year had 49 state legal, and Cali).

--Motor, year unknown (not original), presumed non Cali as it was missing points to even mount some extra emissions equipment (which were also missing naturally).

-- Computer, non Cali to match the non Cali motor. When I bought the truck, it had the original Cali computer which was throwing all kinds of codes because the emissions stuff wasn't there. Replacing the computer fixed most of the issues.

-- Wiring harness, presumed original Cali harness. I only pulled and spliced 4 wires iirc. This was due to the non Cali computer controlled 2 banks of spark plugs, instead of each plug by itself (like the Cali computer did).

If you are returning everything back to a Cali setup, you will need to remove the splices at the computer side of the harness and put the wires back into the connector as they originally were. I'm sure you can find a diagram somewhere. I'm sorry but I didn't feel like running back through the 12 pages I missed to get all relevant information, but I will try to help you as I can. From what I read in your last post, it seems like you're having the same problems I was having when we bought the truck.

Jonathan, I really appreciate your help. This is good stuff, it is about time I learned my way around a 1st gen

Let me try to straighten this out

I used a non california engine replacement. It had no fuel presure regulator, so I used the one off your old engine. To avoid sensor issues, I also used your old upper intake, with all it's sensors.
The engine would not fire, so, I swapped the fuel rail and injectors from your old engine to the replacement. It then fired right up.

This tells me there may be a difference in the injector connectors themselves, from the california to no california that is.


There are 2 configurations also for the injectors-
one style ecu-harness has 2 banks of 3 injectors tied together-this style has 3 injectors with tan and red wire, 3 with white and red


another has individual wiring. This harness has multi colored injector signal wires, all with red signal ground wires.

There is also a difference in02 sensors, I am trying to get a handle on that one-
some have 1, some have 2.

Sorry i didnt see this until now-

Your brakes are the common/best/easy early Bronco disc swap. You use the stock EB drum brake knuckles, with small bearing GM spindles, calipers, and caliper brackets with F150 hubs and rotors. This stuff is 70-something GM half ton Dana44. Not to be confused with 78-up 10 bolt. If you ever find yourself in a parts store again, just call it a "76 chevy half ton 4x4 with 350" and you're good to go.

When doing this the caliper and/or knuckle has to be ground on in order to get clearance. I grind the knuckle so no need to mess with calipers but it can be done either way.

James, I think they guy ahead of me clearanced the knuckles, as the 18003 castings slid right into place .

 

[CDW6212R]

Jon, let us know which other parts you may need. I still have most of my harness stuff, plus the PCM. Mine was a 93, and came from Ohio where it was a lease, likely not a CA truck.

 

[Turdle]

Jon, let us know which other parts you may need. I still have most of my harness stuff, plus the PCM. Mine was a 93, and came from Ohio where it was a lease, likely not a CA truck.

Please hold on to that stuff. I may be needing it.

In fact I strongly suspect I do.

Dannyboy and I talked for a while on the phone. He kept teasing me with his extra wire harness, taunting me.

 

[Turdle]

Rockauto list 2 injectors for 93, a red and a black
doesn't say which is which though.

That may explain why this happened

OK, I will try to get the list of todays events in order.

I woke up and had some coffee. Then scratched my stuff for a while and went outside to attack this thing.

I got the new coolant hoses in, decided it was best to get all of em.
Installed the new battery,just as Sparksaflyin showed up. I cranked it over and nothing, not even an encouraging skip. Not one cylinder was hitting.

Ok, I disconnected the #2 injector plug and had Mark crank the engine while I tried to get a voltage reading on the plug. My meter isn't really fast enough but I did see it changing state. This told me the ECU was "telling" the injectors to fire.
I then hooked up my timing light to the #1 spark plug wire, had Mark crank the engine again, and the timing light flashed. This told me we has spark.

Hmmm
Checking the schrader valve on the fuel rail, resluted in a spray of fuel. Ok, we have fuel pressure.
hmmm
So, in desperation I started removing parts from the "Old" engine to try to get a handle on this.
First I assumed the spark might be mis timed, so, I swapped the crank sensor. The "new" engines sensor was pretty dusty, so I was encouraged by that sign.
Cranked the engine and nada. hmmmm

So, let's see, matbe the coil pack is weak. removing a wire resulted in a seen arc, however, we can swap it right quick.

Got the "new" coilpack in , cranked it and nope again.

hmmm
Ok, I had squirted some transmission fluid into the cylinders, maybe it fouled the plugs. I tried the old set from the known to run engine, and nope.
hmmm
I then started to suspect timing chain, although the oil pressure gauge indicated there was good oil pressure, which rose while cranking.

So, I removed the #5 plug again, not only is it the easiest to get to, it is also the lowest compression cylinder on this engine at 186 psi

Checking the compression, ( this time Joshua cranked the engine for me) the guage jumped right up to 186 psi---cold. This is awesome but told me no clue as to why this engine will not run

About this time my lovely bride called saying she was about to get to Chanute, returning from a weekend shopping trip in Branson. If I leave now she will not have to wait. I said."well we wouldn't want that now would we" and headed out to grab her.
On the way home I grabbed a can of starting fluid.

When we got home I sprayed starting fluid into the throttle body, while Mark cranked the engine. Would you believe it fired up?

Ok, so we have a fuel delivery issue big time.
Hmm,
All I could put together out of all this in my head at this point was the fuel rail--injectors. So, in another act of desperation, I pulled the intake and went about the chore of swapping the injectors and fuel rail. Good thing I had extra gaskets.

I pulled the stuff from this motor, and then pulled the set from the original cracked head engine that moved the truck into the drive way earlier.
I cleaned it all up, swapped the regulator to the replacement rail, and put it all back together. Fishing those injectors in with a sore back was about all I could do for the day. I really don't care for that set up, but whatcha gonna do?

Anyway, I wiped off my hands, cranked the engine and it fired right up.

Wow, I was actually surprised. It blew a lot of smoke while the trans fluid all burned out, but quickly cleaned up and settled down to a nice smooth idle.

I have some coolant flush in there now, with the thermostat removed for good circulation.I also have 1 quart of trans fluid and a half a can of sea-foam in the crank case
I plan on running it again until warm tomorrow, then I will drain the fluids and refill.

But for now, could someone explain how a fuel rail could prevent an engine from even kicking? I could see one, maybe 2 bad injectors, but for all of it to fail? I would think 1 or 2 injectors firing would at least give you a slip or buck while cranking. This one has me stumped.

Or, is there a wiring issue I am not aware of? It seemed the injectors were all plugged in well to me. I am not sure which year engine is what here in my possession, did they change the injector plugs in the span of 90-94?

The injectors all looked identical to me.

 

[dejello]

Jonathan, I really appreciate your help. This is good stuff, it is about time I learned my way around a 1st gen

Let me try to straighten this out

I used a non california engine replacement. It had no fuel presure regulator, so I used the one off your old engine. To avoid sensor issues, I also used your old upper intake, with all it's sensors.
The engine would not fire, so, I swapped the fuel rail and injectors from your old engine to the replacement. It then fired right up.

This tells me there may be a difference in the injector connectors themselves, from the california to no california that is.


There are 2 configurations also for the injectors-
one style ecu-harness has 2 banks of 3 injectors tied together-this style has 3 injectors with tan and red wire, 3 with white and red


another has individual wiring. This harness has multi colored injector signal wires, all with red signal ground wires.

There is also a difference in02 sensors, I am trying to get a handle on that one-
some have 1, some have 2.

Bah, I'm sorry, I forgot about the injectors. That may have been what I spliced (instead of/in addition) to the spark plugs. As far as I can recall, all wiring mods I did to the harness were at the computer (for ease of access and remembering). The harness with each injector having it's own color should the Cali style harness. Believe the computer controlled each cylinder (injectors and spark) individually in an attempt to get better mileage and/or lower emissions.

I do believe that explorer had 2 O2 sensors on it. Might depend on time of the year it was manufactured (with earlier ones having just one), or there's some other something I don't recall. The 93 was a weird year that had these differences, I remember going nuts trying to figure out what was wrong before I realized there were differences I seem to have lost my ford service cd that had the wiring diagrams for both setups, which seriously blows. I loved that cd, had anything and everything you could ever want to know in every detail.

 

[SVO]

In order to fix the system we have to understand how it works,

Injectors are controlled one of two way (as per below):


Batch/Gang Fire injectors:

Injector ground is controlled by the PCM, there is 12v at all times at the injector, if, like in this case the engine has two banks, then the PCM will fire each bank of injectors in conjunction with the cylinder that is ready to make combustion.

Sequential/SEFI injectors:

Sequential Multi Port Injection is where there is a 12v at all time to the injectors, and an individual ground for each injector controlled by the PCM, this like the firing order of the ignition is activated when the cylinder is ready to make combustion, the injector is fired as the intake valves is open and the cylinder is on the intake stroke to draw in A/F mixture.


The CKP (crank position sensor) is the main triggering devise for both the ignition, the injectors, AND signals the PCM that the engine is turning and to activate the low amperage side of the fuel pump relay, one the engine stops/stalls the PCM goes back to holding the fuel pump relay on for it 2sec prime mode, till the motor starts to turn again.


NOW! here's where it gets crazy, IF THIS MODEL APPLY'S !!![/i][/b]

Some models have a CMP/cam position sensor on the back of the block where in pas designs a distributor would go, there are 3 different way this can be had:

1) No Sensor - Your lucky

2) Sensor - available at any auto part store about $35 - somewhat lucky

3) Sensor - made by Borg Warner and has to be ordered $400 - your screwed


This is difficult to see and a small mirror is helpful to locate and service, a stubby Phillips head screw driver is needed, the cheaper sensor is larger in diameter and more common, the smaller Borg Warner is not so, both will be VERY brittle when you take the plug off you will probably break the sensor.

Here again two choices:

1) service the sensor maybe spen an hour doing this job, fixed and go about normal life.

2) you take the sensor out with the pseudo stubby distributor thingie that the sensor is mounted to, then when you replace it, you'll have to line up the maker in the window of the sensor only after you figure out how to roll the motor over 26deg. advanced or a certain amount of inches to what would be 26deg.
if this is not done or the sensor in either case was damaged it will thrw a CEl and mis lead you with a code of 54 faulty CKP, <<<----- did you notice that???

CKP is a crank position sensor, not a CMP, ok see, NEVER EVER rely on the code to tell you what is wrong, it is mearly a starting point!!!!!!!!!!!


OK, the second thing here is that I'm going to rant!!!!!

JON, EVERYTHING YOU ARE ASKING ABOUT IS IN THE BOOK I SENT YOU, HOW CAN YOU BE MY NEXT UP AND COMING TECH??????

Call me so I can chew your ASS!!!!


Luv you Jon!!


Jeff - :navajo:

 

[Turdle]

^^ring ring