lifted explorer problem

[caseysexplorer]

You DEFINITELY need it. ..never asked, why do you even need that much lift for 35?? Just 6" should do it. .

I couldn't clear 35 on the back of the front fenders with 6" lift pretty sure would rub,it rubs a tiny bit at full lock when out hunting now.

 

[caseysexplorer]

pictures

http://s1222.photobucket.com/user/haulasswithclass/media/IMG_20141009_095108603.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

http://s1222.photobucket.com/user/haulasswithclass/media/IMG_20141009_095057260.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1

http://s1222.photobucket.com/user/haulasswithclass/media/IMG_20141009_095034193.jpg.html?sort=3&o=2

http://s1222.photobucket.com/user/haulasswithclass/media/IMG_20141009_095012424.jpg.html?sort=3&o=3

 

[Maniak]

This pic of your's shows the angles are pretty far off...

You want the tie rods to line up from the pivot point of the axle of the beam to the center of the beam at the outside edge.. Basically, tie rods should be at the same angle as the beams..

As they are now, when the suspension goes up/down it will turn the tire left/right giving you at least bump steer. I don't know if those steering changes will be enough to give you an ossification but combined with no sway bars, I could see this happening..

Also, I can't tell what was done to help caster and it may be an optical illusion but the side pic makes it look like the rear is much higher than the front which would exacerbate the caster issue. If you don't have enough caster the front end can get into a death wobble but it will at least make the suspension move around..

Lemme find a couple pics of our X's front end. so you can see what they should look like.. (tie rod angles)

~Mark

Edit: I found the pic I was looking for..

You can see that the tie rods are the same angle (flat in my case) as the beams. If I changed the angle of the camera you would see it would all line up.. This is an older shot when I only had 4" of lift but used Duff (2.5" lift) brackets

Steering Linkage geometry by maniak_az, on Flickr

 

[caseysexplorer]

This pic of your's shows the angles are pretty far off...

You want the tie rods to line up from the pivot point of the axle of the beam to the center of the beam at the outside edge.. Basically, tie rods should be at the same angle as the beams..

As they are now, when the suspension goes up/down it will turn the tire left/right giving you at least bump steer. I don't know if those steering changes will be enough to give you an ossification but combined with no sway bars, I could see this happening..

Also, I can't tell what was done to help caster and it may be an optical illusion but the side pic makes it look like the rear is much higher than the front which would exacerbate the caster issue. If you don't have enough caster the front end can get into a death wobble but it will at least make the suspension move around..

Lemme find a couple pics of our X's front end. so you can see what they should look like.. (tie rod angles)

~Mark

Edit: I found the pic I was looking for..

You can see that the tie rods are the same angle (flat in my case) as the beams. If I changed the angle of the camera you would see it would all line up.. This is an older shot when I only had 4" of lift but used Duff (2.5" lift) brackets

Steering Linkage geometry by maniak_az, on Flickr

Its sets pretty level its parked in a weird spot in that picture. it might be an 1" higher in the rear. When I load all my hunting gear in it sets level.
Yeah big differences. Think I will order me a skyjacker pitman I am hoping to get the sway bars on it this weekend. Will have to build new rear shock mount first.

 

[jd4242]

Yeah big differences. Think I will order me a skyjacker pitman I am hoping to get the sway bars on it this weekend. Will have to build new rear shock mount first.

Put the front on first with the new arm before you go changing the rear, front makes much more difference than rear.think those two will help drastically

 

[Big Doug]

Really drove mine today for the first time since installing my lift. The bumpsteer is terrible. My angle on the steering looks exactly like caseys does. In a turn with the load of the vehicle the it's going toe out a buttload. I put it on the alignment rack at work and just from my weight pushing down on the driver side the vehicle went toed out about 1.2°. Definitely investing in the skyjacker extreem drop...

 

[Big Doug]

Its sets pretty level its parked in a weird spot in that picture. it might be an 1" higher in the rear. When I load all my hunting gear in it sets level.
Yeah big differences. Think I will order me a skyjacker pitman I am hoping to get the#sway#bars#on it this weekend. Will have to build new rear shock mount first.

I assume your front suspension is only about 6 inches of lift. Probably 4" springs and 2" spacers. If your rear is SOA with 2" of shackle that would put your back about an inch higher than the front. If I get my new pitman before you I will let you know if it fixes mine. I found a way to get it for about $185.

 

[caseysexplorer]

I assume your front suspension is only about 6 inches of lift. Probably 4" springs and 2" spacers. If your rear is SOA with 2" of shackle that would put your back about an inch higher than the front. If I get my new pitman before you I will let you know if it fixes mine. I found a way to get it for about $185.

I was told it was 8" by way of bds 6" inch lift and 2" spacers and 2" shackles so I am not a 100% sure. It set a little taller than my buddy's four door with a 6" sky jacker. Were did you find the drop arm for that price so I can get one? Let me know when you get it on if it fixes it? It looks like I am Guiding hunters this weekend so not sure if I will get my sway bars on or not?

 

[4x4junkie]

I was told it was 8" by way of bds 6" inch lift and 2" spacers and 2" shackles so I am not a 100% sure. It set a little taller than my buddy's four door with a 6" sky jacker. Were did you find the drop arm for that price so I can get one? Let me know when you get it on if it fixes it? It looks like I am Guiding hunters this weekend so not sure if I will get my sway bars on or not?

There's some chance you might have to ditch those spacers (or swap to less-tall ones). The FA600 arm having a true drop of 4" already doesn't fully compensate for a 6" lift, which the spacers will further exacerbate this last bit of difference (up to 2" difference between the lift height & pitman arm is generally tolerable for most people. You're probably as much as 6" off with the spacers and the arm you have now).

I agree about being so tall... 6" lift should be more than plenty, especially if you trim the fenders, even just slightly. Maybe you can shim the front axle forward a bit at the radius arm bushings if it's only just rubbing at the rear of the front fenders. Also putting extended radius arms on it may reduce the rubbing as well (lessens the arc the suspension (tire) moves in), not to mention all of the other benefits longer arms will provide.

If it was mine, I'd drop it down to 4" lift (drilling new holes up higher in the axle brackets if needed), then use a 2" body lift if it has to be 6" tall. This would put the steering perfectly in sync (like Maniak's picture) with the FA600 drop arm on it.

 

[jd4242]

I would agree..anything over 6" and its all ways going to have issues. .even if you drop to 6" of lift and put 2" body lift in, it would always handle better..

 

[caseysexplorer]

part update

I got the sway bars and bolts rounded up this weekend. Going to go a head and order the pitman arm today. I hope to get it put on this week sometime. I may pull the spacers and shackles off if this doesn't fix. I don't really want to trim the fender but I will if it means getting it to handle out on the highway.

 

[caseysexplorer]

update

Still havent see my pitman arm yet. Its ordered just waiting for it to get here. Will let you know how it drive when my part get here and are installed.

 

[DymondD]

oJust experienced this on my 4dr . Changed shocks for a trip, started on freeway., 70 mph. Had to put swaybar on from wrecking yard. New shocks were way too soft. Is this thing locked in rear? Tire bind frm locker can wind up suspension .

.

 

[caseysexplorer]

oJust experienced this on my 4dr . Changed shocks for a trip, started on freeway., 70 mph. Had to put swaybar on from wrecking yard. New shocks were way too soft. Is this thing locked in rear? Tire bind frm locker can wind up suspension .

.

Nope not locked in the rear, factory limited slip. I was kind of leaning toward shocks, but the rear are brand new and front have maybe 20,000 mile on them. If the pitman arm and sway bar doesn't fix it that's next, I guess. Did you just put the front on or both?

 

[Maniak]

I drove our '92 to work yesterday, just to remind myself how it does on the freeway (plus I just worked on it)...

We have no sway bars, softish springs, and a locker in the rear and run SOA in the rear.

I know our steering linkage is probably as close to perfect as possible (angle almost line up exactly) and there is practically zero bump steer, even on the uneven 2 lane road (only 55mph limit though).. It isn't as nice as my old setup pictured above, but it is close.

On the freeway, at 65mph (I get bad mileage at anything higher, so I just set the cruise to 65mph), things were still very smooth, even when Semi's would pass me at 80mph. The truck would move from the wind, but it never got upset..

I guess I'm saying you shouldn't "need" sway bars for going straight. Yes, they will help when turning etc, but that wouldn't be needed when going down the freeway..

A couple things that I can think of (that haven't been mentioned in the thread yet) is Tire/Wheel balance and thrust (well, that was mentioned earlier)...

Years ago, I was getting weird vibrations/shakes going down the freeway. It almost went to death wobble a few times.. What I noticed is if I stuck my head out the window while driving I could see the hub moving in/out quite a bit so I knew it was actually my front end moving side to side. I run air-soft pellets to balance the tires (dynamically) and that wasn't helping. When I went to try to spin balance them again I found that 3 or my 4 rims were bent like a potato chip. I changed my rims (also went 1" wider to 8" on the rim) and that problem went away.

As for the thrust angle.. that is part of the alignment.. If your dog tracking things will load up, even with a limited slip and as things bind/release you will make an oscillation.

Oh yea, when I had the front end issues, I even put on a steering stabilizer (which I left on) and while it did help a little, it just masked the problem (made it less bad, but things were still moving).

~Mark

 

[DymondD]

Did just the front. Fixed the sway. My steering angles are about the same as yours .

 

[DymondD]

Just wanted to elaborate on my wobble. My ex has been together for 2 yrs, Danna 44 TTB Cut turned, Ext Radius Arms, SOA rear, Front 4" Superlift, 35" BFGs, Detroit Rear. Have runs this same trip to southern Utah twice before. first time with new Bilstein rear shocks, and low mileage Ranchos on front. trip south was lovely. trip back after 200 miles of washboard sway was there loaded. sway was gone empty. 2nd trip was empty. little more sway coming home. This trip, changed shocks. installed Rancho RS5136. Front only. wobble was way worse. sway bar completely eliminated it. Will be going back to dual shocks. Also Somebody was asking about sway bar links, I ran super duty links on my BII. that have a spherical bearng end that I like. they are longer and might work for the ex.

 

[caseysexplorer]

Update

OK, the drop pitman arm is on and the front sway bar is on with drop brackets. Drives like it should. I do wish I would of put the pitman arm on 1st and drove it, to see if that fixed it. But with the skyjacker pitman arm and the front sway bar on it fixed it. I drove it out of town a few miles at 55 to 70 miles per hour drove straight. Hunts the ruts a little on the great Colorado highways put that to be expected. When I get time I may pull the sway bar bolts out and drive it just to see.

THANKS FOR ALL YOUR INPUT YOU GUY WERE A BIG HELP!!!!!

Now any buddy have some 4.88 or 5:13 gear they want to sell. LOL

 

[DymondD]

Very nice. My pitman arm arrived yesterday.

 

[caseysexplorer]

Very nice. My pitman arm arrived yesterday.

Hey, DymondD did you get your pitman arm on yet. Was wondering how it turn out?