My 5.4L 3v Adrenalin engine swap

[stylin99]

Ok you guys have been asking for video so here you go. A quick walk-around while it's idling.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCiXKLRK3Lc

Finally fixed the exhaust manifold leak! I checked the header itself, and it wasn't straight. It was warped badly (.035 from being straight). I had a spare set of Explorer headers and it was warped also. Makes me wonder if there's a problem with the Explorer cast iron headers. Hmmm....

And the belt squeak is fixed for now. I had to sand the entire surface of the belt to get it to stop. But I have a feeling it will come back. Too bad they don't make a Gatorback in this size. Grrr....

I tried to install the GT500 dual FPDM wiring and a couple Ford GT pumps, but it didn't like the setup at all. So I had to take it down to one GT pump for now using one FPDM so we'll see how far in power that gets me when the dyno time comes.

 

[stylin99]

I keep wondering how hard and how much work it would be to add a 6spd manual to one of these?

as frustrated as I am with the auto trans right now, I've already started the researching phase of fitting a manual into it. Not sure if it's easily done, but I'm already taking measurements.

 

[GRNMACHINE]

A teaser video--looking forward to more--Along with a 67 Camaro this is another Dream Ride for me. Very Impressive.

 

[adrnlnrush]

as frustrated as I am with the auto trans right now, I've already started the researching phase of fitting a manual into it. Not sure if it's easily done, but I'm already taking measurements.

Please keep us updated if you follow through on this. I would definitely be interested in trying this if it is not too costly.

Something I've thought about... have you looked into the possibility of getting an ECM / TCM or at least a tune for the new F150 with a 5.4 & 6spd auto?

Are they having torque problems with this new setup or do they have it figured out?

Is it possibly the extra torque from the blower creating all the problems?

Could it be the traction control or the RSC that is creating the problem?

These are the questions going through my head on what I've read here.

Also, I'm guessing your tuner couldn't get the tranny figured out?

Keep pressing forward and keep us in the loop, this is definitely a great build.

 

[stylin99]

Please keep us updated if you follow through on this. I would definitely be interested in trying this if it is not too costly.

Something I've thought about... have you looked into the possibility of getting an ECM / TCM or at least a tune for the new F150 with a 5.4 & 6spd auto?

Are they having torque problems with this new setup or do they have it figured out?

Is it possibly the extra torque from the blower creating all the problems?

Could it be the traction control or the RSC that is creating the problem?

These are the questions going through my head on what I've read here.

Also, I'm guessing your tuner couldn't get the tranny figured out?

Keep pressing forward and keep us in the loop, this is definitely a great build.

Oh it WILL be costly, trust me. Swapping over to a 6spd manual requires a good trans, a new flywheel, clutch kit, clutch cable, clutch fork, clutch PEDAL mechanism, pilot bearing, and probably some wiring modifications, not to mention cutting a hole in the trans tunnel for the shifter, making a custom crossmember, and a custom aluminum driveshaft. So I'm really reluctant to go that route, but it may be my only option.

There's very little info on the new F150. Procharger makes a kit for that truck with the 6spd, but it's a low boost setup for the stock motor. ATI has a custom tune of their own (proprietary) they put on the SCT box from what I understand.

The only real hope for any progress on the 6r60 tuning, is to wait on SCT to develop a program for the new Mustang 6spd that's out. Once they unlock all the tables in the Mustang PCM, then we can hopefully get them to provide info on the Explorer PCM. I'm crossing my fingers that the computer tables are similar.

And yes we think it is some kind of Traction Control-like device preventing the torque from crossing through. But we've turned off the torque modulation switch, and it still acts the same. Probably other tables and switches in there that we can't see yet until SCT does their thing. The traction control button on the dash doesn't seem to affect it either, but we know the PCM reads that sensor for input.

Those are great insights and questions, and trust me we've went through most of those already. It gets way over my head real quick when you're looking at driveshaft revolutions to determine shift points, and tables with a X and Y axis labeled as "none". LOL It's like driving down a back road at night with a New Moon, and all you have is a maglite to light your way.

So I leave the important stuff up to my tuner, and hope he can find a magical spell. Or an exorcist.

 

[adrnlnrush]

Steve couple more questions that keep running through my head:

You said that the transmission didn't want to apply all of the torque to the wheels. Do you think it is actually the tranny or is the engine going into derate because of the traction control?

I have noticed that at times when i try to make a quick start into traffic, the engine seems to derate or retard the cam, then all of a sudden it comes back in and takes off.

Have you thought of, iis it possible to use a different autop transmission. Didn't the 07 or 08 Expeditions have a 6 speed?

Hell maybe go with a 4R100

 

[stylin99]

It's the tranny or the torque converter doing it. The engine is performing nicely. picked me up a boost gauge and it confirms the truck is making 10 psi on the larger s/c pulley.

I can certainly do a more common trans, have it built to withstand the power, and run a standalone system to operate it (again costly). I'd probably go with a stick before I'd do that, just because I would LOVE to shift the hell outta this thing myself.

 

[ncranchero]

Steve, I live close to Mt.Holly, just over in Denver. I'd like to drop by and see this monster for myself someday! Awesome job!

 

[adrnlnrush]

We need another update,
I'm having withdrawal symptoms and need a fix.

 

[stylin99]

Okay Update Time...

Finally making some progress again. Got the 60 lb/hr injectors installed finally, and a new base tune to go with them. I was running around on stock injectors before, just to get the bugs worked out, but needed the injectors to be able go Wide Open Throttle safely. Got the Ford GT pump installed in the tank (only 1 for now, but will go dual later if I need them).

I've been able to crack open the throttle, and now in 1st and 2nd gear she feels strong! Once it gets higher in the gears, still feels like the Converter is not locking/unlocking properly as its not giving all the hp from the new engine.

I'm still on the 10 lb boost level right now, but will work back into the 13-14 lbs I originally planned for, once we get some progress.

Next week, I have some dyno time scheduled to see where we stand on fuel delivery, and to get a baseline dyno sheet to work from. I'm not expecting any world records, but Baby Steps is the phrase of the month. Just getting her on the dyno, is a big move forward. Hoping it reveals some data about the transmission/converter issues that we can diagnose more effectively.

Also, have to get the exhaust redone with less restrictions. Will be going Cat-less and having new pipe made from the headers all the way back! Still will be single exhaust exit due to Adrenalin's rear bumper setup, but will be much larger pipe all the way to handle the extra exhaust flow. Without the cats, going through the FLowmaster, she's going to sound mean as sh*t.

 

[stylin99]

First Dyno visit completed!

It's been a looooong process, but we at least got some base dyno numbers to get started with. With only 9.5 lbs boost through the Whipple, and a very ugly 130 deg air intake temps (after several hot lap pulls), she managed a weak 410 rwhp / 420 rwtq. The 6spd trans seems to be giving up after that power level, and it's simply not giving me the power and torque of the built 5.4L 3v.

This was only a baseline though to get it started. Still have to open up the exhaust system in a few weeks, fix the intake so it can breathe cooler air through the fender, and then bump the boost up to 14 psi. Not sure if this stupid transmission will give us anything more, but I've got to see what happens.

Worst comes to worst, it will get a manual transmission conversion.

 

[ncranchero]

I'll never understand why they didn't use the 4R70W's in the Sport Trac's. Transmissions have always been the weak link in Trac's.

 

[Flounder]

Bump. What's new?

 

[psycareyo]

Reading this thread brought me way back. Its like I was a kid again, reading a comic book I had been covetting for month.

 

[Darth Stang]

Is this the engine that Shrader is selling on ebay now?

 

[stylin99]

Is this the engine that Shrader is selling on ebay now?

Good catch.

Yes, I took out the 5.4 temporarily to address the transmission issues. The lack of tuning available on the computer, and the torque converter that was maxed out just didn't make the truck fun to drive around town daily. So I put it back to stock for now, until I can put a manual transmission in it. If the engine sells in the meantime, that's great, I'll build something different for it. But if not, I'll probably stick the engine back in with the manual.

Thinking of going T56 6spd from a 03 Cobra, with a clutch cable system instead of the newer hydraulic systems. I've got most of it planned out except the pedals. There's no easy drop in solution for a clutch pedal and cable, so I'll have to fab it up. Just have to let the wallet recover a bit first.

Will probably install the manual first with the stock motor, then when it's all setup successfully, drop in the nasty powerplant to go with it.

 

[tmsoko]

Nice build! Reminds me of when i did the 302 / Kenne Bell in my 1999 Ranger back in 2002. Everything stock in appearance and a bunch of detail custom work. Really good job on this one!

Your concern on the belt. I had a custom length Gatorback made for my Kenne Bell on 302 Explorer engine. Called Summit racing and told them my length. Within a few days, I had my custom belt. They can do any length to within 1/2" if I remember right.

For the trans, if going manual, get a TR6060. It has capability of a built T56 in stock form. Check out the WWW for comparisons of the part. TR6060 is way more stout in stock form. You can pick up a GT500 TR6060 for cheap - less than $2K.

I am in the market for a 2008.5+ Adrenalin AWD myself (want Sync). I will likely follow your lead on the 5.4L once I find the truck. Would really like to know the EEC lineups and compatability with the Sport Trac body harnesses. I would walk away from the 6 speed and try to get into a 4R75W or 4R100. I just feel WAY more comfortable with those transmissions for the power and ability to still tow.

Anyhow - nice work and can't wait to see Phase II!

 

[blk mk8]

there are a bunch of 5.0 new mustangs running Whipple with 6spd auto going pretty darn fast. they are also out with a new converter already as well. i would love to do a twin turbo setup with new 5.0 in a Adrenalin.

 

[tmsoko]

Any detail on who is doing the programming or the converter for the 6R60?

 

[stylin99]

The newer Mustang 6r60 is controlled completely different than our trucks. Lots of programmers out for the Mustang, but no one took the time to decipher the tables in the Explorer PCMs. I've tried to get SCT to work on it, but there's little profit for them in Explorers so no drive to master it I guess.

I'm convinced that in order to have a high horsepower application, the 6spd auto has to go.