Need Some Help on My First Audio Upgrade.

[Dano!]

Hello everyone,
I want to upgrade my truck with a nice sounding system and i have a 1 - 1.5k budget. right now my 91 Navajo has no subwoofer, scrounged up junkyard Kenwood 3-way speakers, and a Pioneer DEH-P3500 head unit.

:roll: The previous owner did a horrible job wiring the new head unit into the stock wiring, and did not bother to mount the head unit, so it just sits there bouncing around.

Now the type of system i am aiming for is something that wont let the neighborhood know i am rattling down the street, that is i have spent too much time on flight decks of Aircraft Carriers letting Jet engines re-arrange my brain with Radar / vibration / excessive noise ect. So i don't necessarily want my Navajo to do any more damage than has already been done.

So far the only thing i have purchased is a new adapter set to re-do the hack job behind the head unit, and it comes with the stock amp bypass adapter too.
$17 bucks from Crutchfield Reciever wire harness

After doing some research i have in mind to purchase the MTX Sub Enclosure + Sub (I do have a 10" Kicker sub but i don't know which one would be better)
$300

I have read that the Alpine PDX-5 or the updated PDX-9V 5 channel amp will fit where my stock amp sits right now. (which is a benefit to me because i want to try and keep everything hidden.)
$500-$700

I want to run power to the 5 channel amp and have it power my speakers and my sub and leave the factory harness available for possible future upgrades. i would describe my self as a Professional when it comes to wire routing / repair, but a honest novice when it comes to audio components and their purpose / function.

I don't know if i will be upgrading my door / back panel speakers (2 door) to be honest i wouldn't know what to get. would you suggest upgrading them?

I have no problem figuring out how and when to install sound deadener in my truck and my biggest pet peeve is rattling panels which also i don't have a problem learning about and fixing. i don't generally listen to music that requires allot of bass but if i wanted to, it would be nice to have a system that can accommodate it. (country - rock - punk - metal)

so that leaves me with about $500-$700 bucks for mounting and wiring. would you guys give me some input before i start throwing my money everywhere so i don't end up screwing up and wasting my funds.

Do you guys think i am going in the right direction here? i am willing to add / change it as long as it is out of sight. i just want a system that wont leave me feeling like i want more, and if more is too much money at the moment, i would like a system that can be utilized in any future upgrading.

Sorry for the large post, thank you.

-Dano

 

[1996BLKBauer]

I find that 5-channel amps work well to keep all the wires in one place, instead all over the truck. As for Door speakers I HIGHLY suggest Hertz speakers, I have tried out many pairs, and they sound amazing! I plan on upgrading from my Alpine door speakers, to Hertz soon. For the doors I also suggest Baffles, this will keep dirt, and water off of the speakers, and sometimes help the bass output as well. They are also cheap, under $20 for 2 in most cases. I regret not getting some for mine earlier , but I just ordered a pair. You are also doing good with buying a sub/box combo, the boxes are specifically made for the subs, and you will get the max sound out of it. For s sound deadener, I have no experiences with, but I plan on trying out some Second Skin, the reviews everywhere are really good. Good luck man, Building a stereo is very fun, and rewarding when it is done.

 

[Dano!]

Thanks for the info. Before you mentioned Hertz speakers i was looking into a few pairs of Alpine speakers because you mentioned them in another thread.

There seems to be a common problem when finding information on Hertz speakers online. ( information that i can understand) would i be doing those speakers injustice by using the Alpine amp i plan on getting as most Hertz speakers can use more power than my amp can provide?

Also i have read that Hertz speakers can self destruct when they get too cold, i don't think that would be a problem for me but it may get colder where others are concerned. There seems to be a problem with bootlegging these speakers too so i would have to find an authorized dealer near me.

I will try and hit up some of the local audio stores around town to get an idea of prices.

I just wouldn't know what type to get for me, which speakers would be better up front and which speakers in the rear. ( coaxial? Ect)

Thanks again looks like i have more research in front of me.

 

[Thed]

Personally, I'd rock two different amps. It's what I did with my last setup and what I'm doing for the one under construction.

 

[Mr_Wiggles]

hello Dano,

I would recommend Hertz as well... i have used them for years! and will not be moving to any other brand!

The only way speakers can self destruct is if they are put on full blast from a powerful amplifier from cold....I mean full blast!.... or you plug them in to the mains power ...... not a pretty site - but fun!!

There are multiple ways to set up the car, but depends on how you like the sound...

Ideally you should 2-way set up (Herrtz HSK 6.5" components) in the front, 6 or 8" mids in the back (JL Audio) and a small sub in the boot (Any) - all can be powered from a 5 channel amp (Genesis or similar). This would give you the correct sound stage and complete you system.

Or

if you budget is not a lavish as to set up above. Then Some Hertz HSK components up front (6.5") and a 8" or 10" sub in the boot - powered from 1 amp. But power the stock rear speakers from the Head Unit.

 

[UtahX]

I have had Hertz speakers in my X for about 3 years now, and no problems what so ever. Very nice speakers, very natural and detailed, but not on the bright side.

 

[dmwattes24]

if you have a 1.5k budget you can build a real nice system.
here is what im planning to do some day (prolly late summer)

headunit - Pioneer AVH-P8400BH - $500
Speakers - Infinity Kappa 682.11cf - $150
- Infinity Kappa 52.11i - $150
Speeker Amp - Pioneer GM-D8604 -$220
Subwoofer - Pioneer TS-SW841D - $160
Subwoofer Box - Pioneer UD-SW80D - $70
Subwoofer Amp - Pioneer GM-3500T - $100

Thats $1350, if your into bass you could upgrade to a non shallow mount and get a pretty nice sub, but you would need to bump up the amp and box too ofcorse, this build is what i personaly plan to do and I dont need a huge amount of bass because I listen to mostly country music and wish to keep it under a seat so I can continue to use my cargo space.

 

[Dano!]

Thank you guys for all the input.

I finally found an authorized Hertz dealer up in Sac town (Sacramento) i sent him a list of what i wanted in my truck and he recommended two sets of Hertz speakers (front and back) he said the Alpine amp was a great idea.

They stock the MTX sub enclosure but said Tue actual sub was garbage and recommended swapping the sub out. (Don't know if i will do that) so i would like to hear from people that have the MTX sub enclosure + MTX sub. Does it sound good? Does it do what you need it to do? Would you put a different sub in if you had that option?

I wanted a new pioneer head unit DEH-80PRS but the Guy said he wasn't a fan of pioneer and that the dead unit had problems. I am hoping that someone on this forum has this head unit and can give me their honest opinion.
The reviews i have been reading say its good and i seek out the reviews that have 1-3 stars for honest reviews or informed reviews. And overall it looks good.

The sub enclosure you mentioned pioneer ud-sw80d will that fit under the rear seats?

Again thank you guys for your help. I want to get this right the first time.

 

[UtahX]

You do not need speakers in the rear doors, put the nicer Hertz up front and have them mount the tweeters in the pillars on the side's of the windshield. This will give you better imaging. Also, this will let you buy a better 2 channel amp for those speakers, I would go with around 150 watts per channel and/or up, at least. Then get a nice 10" sub and a mono amp or bridge another 2 channel amp.

 

[1996BLKBauer]

I have MTX Subs, they are older, but they pound! But I did it right, I supply the correct amount of power. My local dealer said that lately MTX quality has gone down hill, so much that they have dropped them in their store. I feel as if I trust my local store, everything they told me about the stuff I bought is very true, and I am happy with my setup. As for swapping out the sub, there is a chance that it is true, to keep costs down they may use a cheaper sub, that looks more expensive. But the sub you swap in may not meet the box requirements. Honestly Everybody I know has a cheap walmart Pioneer headunit, and they have had zero problems with them. In my personal opinion they are bullet proof. Although for me personally I like Alpine, as far as issues with the specific unit, I have never delt with that unit to know.



ALSO.......

 

[toypaseo]

If you want to save money, and cargo space, maybe consider using an OEM enclosure, and modding it if needed. Here is pic of my enclosure from my Budget Bass project. Not winning any bass competitions with it. Just adds some low end to my all stock system. I think I paid $12 for the enclosure from a pick-a-part yard.


Click on image for larger view

 

[98 5oh XLT]

Ive got a Kenwood KDC-895, Alpine type R 12, Infinity Perfects in the doors, Sony Xplod reworked by me producing 1k watts RMS, and a Rockford 4 channel to my doors. Love it. Neighborhood knows when I am in town but the audio quality is amazing. I would suggest Infinity to anyone. My Alpine is pretty good. I miss my Kicker Comp VR but that was stolen out of my truck, honestly when I redo im thinking Kicker L7 15 Solobaric and a Kicker 2k RMS amp.

 

[Dano!]

Thanks everyone for your guys advice.

I do have a stock enclosure i pulled out of a 98 explorer. I know there is a thread talking about the perfect subwoofer to fit into it. Purchasing said sub would shave some costs.. i just don't know enough on how to modify the stock enclosure to accept a 10in sub. Or would a 8 inch sub be fine to add some bass.
Right now i am lurking all the audio site waiting on sales and researching other peoples set ups.

I really want to do this right the first time.

Here is a question though. I already have 2 0g wire going through my passenger fire wall, ( + and - ) its taking up all the room in that grommet. My blue sea fuse box can only pull Max 100amps, can i use a "splitter" ( 0g wire goes in, 2 0g comes out) to cotinue my wire to my new amp? Only my lights are wired to the fuse block.

Thoughts?

 

[98_sport]

Why do you have a power and ground running through the firewall? curious.

 

[1996BLKBauer]

Thanks everyone for your guys advice.

I do have a stock enclosure i pulled out of a 98 explorer. I know there is a thread talking about the perfect subwoofer to fit into it. Purchasing said sub would shave some costs.. i just don't know enough on how to modify the stock enclosure to accept a 10in sub. Or would a 8 inch sub be fine to add some bass.
Right now i am lurking all the audio site waiting on sales and researching other peoples set ups.

I really want to do this right the first time.

Here is a question though. I already have 2 0g wire going through my passenger fire wall, ( + and - ) its taking up all the room in that grommet. My blue sea fuse box can only pull Max 100amps, can i use a "splitter" ( 0g wire goes in, 2 0g comes out) to cotinue my wire to my new amp? Only my lights are wired to the fuse block.

Thoughts?

By 2 0g, do you mean 2/0 Gauge wire? If so That is some pretty hefty wire. If I where you I would get a second battery, more specifically a AGm battery, and run the 2/0 into the Battery, then back to Blue Sea fuse box, then another amount 1/0 gauge to your amp for the stereo, this way the battery will absorb any spikes, or drops form the stereo.... Just a suggestion, I am not certain if there was a splitter like that, unless you mean a distribution block, but I don't think there are any 2/0, to 1/0 Gauge distribution blocks on the market.

 

[Dano!]

Why do you have a power and ground running through the firewall? curious.

I understand your curiosity, i toyed around with the idea of running the ground to the body, or running the ground through a grommet on the floor and bolting to the frame.

My concern was that if i did either of those i would be putting too much load on the existing grounding straps / wires that make its way back to the battery. With the lights and future gadgetry i plan on running to the fuse block i will be running close to the 100 amp Max the fuse block limits me to.

When i put everything together to wire my lights and switches, i put it together so that there were redundancies, i made every step of the wiring quick disconnect capable just in case there was a problem / short anywhere along the wire harnesses. Pretty much i over engineered it. After going through all that (most likely) unnecessary work i didn't want the weak link to be the factory grounds. To me there were too many variables i could not control, such as corrosion and proper contact between bounding points and wires. In my mind it added the possibility of hard troubleshooting if there was a problem. So to put my mind at ease i completed the circuit by running the same size wire back through the fire wall to the battery.

 

[Dano!]

By 2 0g, do you mean 2/0 Gauge wire? If so That is some pretty hefty wire. If I where you I would get a second battery, more specifically a AGm battery, and run the 2/0 into the Battery, then back to Blue Sea fuse box, then another amount 1/0 gauge to your amp for the stereo, this way the battery will absorb any spikes, or drops form the stereo.... Just a suggestion, I am not certain if there was a splitter like that, unless you mean a distribution block, but I don't think there are any 2/0, to 1/0 Gauge distribution blocks on the market.

To be honest with you i am going to have to double check the actual size of the wire. I found some items on the web that split the wires for you but you may be right in that it may not necessarily be for the largest automotive wiring, i will double check that too and get back to you tommorow.

 

[dmwattes24]

I was under the impression that the shorter the ground the better ... kinda long don't you think. Are you worried about interference at all?

 

[DjDom]

I was under the impression that the shorter the ground the better ... kinda long don't you think. Are you worried about interference at all?

Yes, the shorter the ground the lower the risk of having grounding problems. But keep in mind, regardless of where you ground it on the chassis, it still has to run back through the ground wires of the truck and to the battery.
So long as he has a good quality cable, he's fine with a longer length ground.
However, the ground should not exceed the length of the power wire.

 

[Dano!]

1996BLKBouer,

Turns out i used 4g wire from the battery to the fuse block. sorry for not checking before i posted.

this is what i was talking about as for a power distribution box.

street wires power distribution box

"This distribution block has a single 3-way ( 2 side and 1 rear) input that will accept up to 1/0-gauge wire. The single 3-way input gives you maximum mounting flexibility by allowing you to connect the input wire straight on or to either side. The direct set screw connections provide superior clamping and low resistance. The block also has 3 front-mounted outputs that will accept up to 1/0-gauge wire."

could i replace the 4g power wire coming from the battery with 1/0 gauge wire and put one of these distribution blocks in the cab to not only run power to my fuse block but also run sufficient power to the 5 channel amp?

Battery --> 1/0g --> Distribution box --> Fuse --> Amp

Branch off again from the distribution box with another fuse before the power wire goes to the fuse block.

i could leave the existing ground for my fuse block and just need to provide another ground down the line for the amp.

Yes, the shorter the ground the lower the risk of having grounding problems. But keep in mind, regardless of where you ground it on the chassis, it still has to run back through the ground wires of the truck and to the battery.
So long as he has a good quality cable, he's fine with a longer length ground.
However, the ground should not exceed the length of the power wire.

DjDom,
Your right, when i read the wire charts, i measured the gauge wire i needed by not only how far away the item is from the battery, but also the return to the battery. used that total length to determine how thick i needed the wire for the amount of amps i was pushing through it + voltage drop.