New 5.0L Headers are HERE!

[tmsoko]

Both the Nascar designs you spoke of are not torque focused, as we need. I believe I spoke of the weight of our trucks and their torque requirements. Long tube designs, around 34-36" primaries, with primary size tuned to the engine HP requirements and collectors (merge) sized accordingly would be better than the short tube and tri-y designs.

I agree that too large in primary and collectors can kill an engines performance as well. The length of tubes is rarely too long, unless you are looking for high end power. A header with 34-36" primaries is great for low end power, which we need. Getting a header with that much or more primary length is difficult to accomplish. Also, truly acheiving equal length is something of a art - but if you can, you will be able to balance the wave front of each primary for perfect scavanging through a merge collector.

I have discussed my needs with burns and have their catalog. I will probably buy my collectors from them and pipe from stainless works. The merge style collector is much better for our needs than the tri-y design collectors. I have also reviewed with specialty products designs, and several local header facbricators in Detroit area, including roush. My needs are 34", 1 3/4 primaries, with 2.5" merge collectors. Now all I need is timeto complete them...

As for my automotive experience: I swapped a V8 in my 1999 ranger, complete with EFI, PATS, and all accessories. Before the blower, it looked 100% factory. I am currently building a water intercooler manifold for my already custom kenne bell supercharger. I am building custom headers and a 349ci boss block stroker for this truck. I have rebuilt another truck from the bare frame (including engine/trans), swapped and rebuilt who knows how many Porsche 911 engines. Oh yeah, and I am a sheet metal engineer for the Ford Motor Company. Is that enough automotive experience?

The TorqueMonster headers are probably good for the average explorer owner that needs to upgrade from their stock manifolds. They do out power the FRPP headers by an appreciable amount. My only concern is that anyone who would be willing / able to shell out $700 for headers, will either need or soon need larger headers. These are too small for me, but would be better than my FRPP headers. I just have no idea when I will ever have the free time to finish my own.

 

[tmsoko]

Also, as we will probably never agree on this topic, but if you would be interested, check out my WWW to see the progress I had made on my headers. I think page 5 has smoe pictures. I have not done anything on these in over a year, as I have been working on my house. Hopefully I will get back to them soon.

 

[Clarko]

Are they CARB approved yet?

 

[Oversquare]

Good point! I'm impressed. As you said, we'll probably never agree with Tri-Y vs. 4 into 1.

Most often I see a higher peak HP with the 4 into 1 design, but the Tri-Y repeatedly makes more HP/Tq in the rest of the curve - as well as more HP/Tq at part throttle. Those results would flow into the street application very well.

-B

 

[tmsoko]

Do you have some curves I could look at comparing 4-1 vs tri-y? I would like to see that. I want to make sure my $500 for collectors is well spent.

T

 

[Nitrous SSC]

I want my X to run like a NASCAR.

 

[Oversquare]

Dyno graphs are on the shop computer. But I can't share the good ones anyways due to NDA's (non-disclosure agreements).

But you can take my word for it, right? lol.

I'm developing a header system for the V8 x's as well. The key differences will be fit, durability, and low end/part throttle torque. My prototype costs (including design time, tooling, modeling, etc) should be less than $400. Retail costs should be under $400 (closer to $300). I bet your design (as well as the TorqueMonster Headers) will make more peak HP, but I'm focused on increasing torque levels before the peak.

Good luck and have fun!

-Brad

 

[tmsoko]

Wow, that is a great price! How are you able to do it so cheaply? I have ~$200 into the two sets of headers I cut up to make my trial set - cheaper than buying bends. Once complete, I will duplicate in stainless, then ceramic coat. (Stainless and ceramic to keep engine bay temp down as much as possible. I figure I will have ~$800-1000 into them when all is said and done.

How soon will you have sets available? Like I said, I have no idea when I will actually find time to complete mine, so I am in the market for something better than the FRPPs I currently have.

 

[CDW6212R]

Brad and Todd, excellent comments, and very good use of this thread. Todd, recall I asked you about your Zexel Torsen diff.? I've got about 28000 miles on mine so far.
My comments about headers for the X was driven by my conversation with Bob(TorqueMonster), and the confines of our engine bays.
Ford factory headers are typically awful, and there is not room for any ideal header, of any type. My thoughts were about trying to combine four into two on each side, before passing down along the frame rails. Then merge those two into one. My use of the tri Y description was just for people who aren't familier with many types of headers.

Fitting anything is our problem, but we do need something bigger than 1.5" for primaries. The right side would best merge cylinders 1-2, and 3-4. The left side would need to be 5-7, and 6-8, which may be hard. My idea was just to come up with bigger pipes than 1.5", and include a proper collector.

If anyone can fit something better in there, please let us all know about it.

Todd, what exactly are you doing regarding a manifold with water intercooler? I would like to combine the ports of a lower 302 intake with a 2004 Cobra intake. The Cobra supercharger would have to have a lengthened snout, and EE kit drive would probably work. I started a thread about this on *********.
Best regards,
Don W

 

[boominXplorer]

Dyno graphs are on the shop computer. But I can't share the good ones anyways due to NDA's (non-disclosure agreements).

But you can take my word for it, right? lol.

I'm developing a header system for the V8 x's as well. The key differences will be fit, durability, and low end/part throttle torque. My prototype costs (including design time, tooling, modeling, etc) should be less than $400. Retail costs should be under $400 (closer to $300). I bet your design (as well as the TorqueMonster Headers) will make more peak HP, but I'm focused on increasing torque levels before the peak.

Good luck and have fun!

-Brad

I would be REALLY interested If they were like the torque monster ones but didn't interfere with me using a larger valve cover

 

[tmsoko]

From the work I did a year ago in my headers, I would say it is easier to leave as individual primaries rather than 4-2-1. The first set of collectors would take too much room. Plus, there will have to be individual primaries with slip fit collecotrs, as there is no way to install them if one piece, aside from pulling engine and setting headers on frame, then replace engine.

As for the manifold. I am using a Victor 5.0L air gap lower manifold with a custom upper (discharge) manifold to house a 2003 Cobra intercooler core. I am also making a custom inlet manifold to be larger than the current KB manifold I am using. Looks pretty straight forward, just need to do it!

 

[Oversquare]

You are exactally right. The room/clearance in the X is too little for a Tri-Y. I'm trying something less conventional to achieve similar results.

I'm focused on Natrually Aspirated performance. Forced Induction will, of course, need MUCH larger headers - and my design would not be the best for this (although it would solve most clearance issues).

Sound amazing with the supercharger ideas!!! Good luck with that!

-Brad

 

[CDW6212R]

Todd, your idea sounds logical for your KB supercharger. My idea is aimed at being able to use the more common Cobra supercharger, and change to the upgrade KB unit later.
I saw a 6000 mile KB kit for a Navigator sell for $1025. If I had known it would have been reasonable, I would have tried to get it just for the supercharger.
Keep us updated,
DW

 

[tmsoko]

I bid up to $1000 for that unit. Lost by $25 - burns my ass. I was able to get a new 2.2L compressor from KB a few weeks ago for $1200. It has a blemish in the anodizing, but for a $495 save, I can't complain!

You would be hard pressed to get the cobra manifold to work on a 302. The ports are straight down on a Cobra and further apart. May be more feasible on a 351W engine. Just about the same amount of work for a completely custom manifold. Plus, the Kenne Bell Cobra upgrade is ~$3,000! Just buy a 2.2L compressor, a Cobra intercooler core, and some aluminum plate.

I think I will be done with my landscaping project by the end of this month. Then I will get back into this project.

T

 

[CDW6212R]

Thanks, good information Todd. I didn't know that another KB supercharger could be had for so much less. I saw a new KB Cobra SC on Ebay last year for $2500. I saved the seller's address, thinking that the price might be less by the time I actually needed one. I'll check into other KB SC's before I commit to a design.
Keep us posted,
DW

 

[hsmcclanahan]

Any updates on the group buy?

 

[hsmcclanahan]

bump

 

[r37ribution]

Hey guys I just read through this ENTIRE thread...phew! but VERY educational!

TMSOKO - Plymouth is where I use to work (Geeks 4 Rent-you may have seen one of their PT cruisers running around), I'm from Ypsilanti. I'm looking for headers for a 2nd explorer I just bought with the 302 in it. I'm not the best with the engine yet but I learn very quickly. I have done a lot of work to my current 96' X 4.0L OHV with 192,000 miles on it. Its been a few months since, got all that work finished on the house yet? I'd be VERY interrested in your headers, especially since your so close. I'd like to come by and take a look.

OVERSQUARE - You both sound like you possess a vast knowledge about headers, it would be VERY interresting to see whose design worked out the best.

SECTION - ever get those hp/tq issues straightened out? What was causing it? Did it end up being the chip or the pcm?

I been hungery for the extra power of the 5.0 soooo I'm picking up a black leather '97 XLT 5.0 AWD tomorrow with 111,000 on it for 5,400 with new ball joins, brakes, and brand new tires with less than 100 miles on 'em. Not sure if I'm gonna keep it or sell it since its worth 6,600 in "good" condition on according to blue book value. I think its closer to excellent condition but I was wanting something newer. Just noticed Oversquare's truck, didn't realize you could still get a 5.0 in a 2000 explorer.

Either way I WANT HEADERS and I like to do things right the first time so I want the best. Let me know whats up with your projects.

 

[tmsoko]

I worked on them a bunch over Chirstmas holiday's, but am in a holding pattern again. I am 99% sure I am going to a 408ci stroked windsor, so I doubt I will finish these headers. After working on them, I have determined it is not really practicle to consider making additional sets or having a header shop do it. They would be just too expensive and require re-routing the trans cooler lines and custom cat pipes. Not a bolt on by any means. If I change my mind, I will let you know.

I would be interested to see what OVERSQUARE has accomplished. Hopefully he did better than I. I just feel like I wasted 4 days of vacation time in the garage for a box full of welded pipes that don't fit and aren't finished!

Good luck with the explorer. The V8 can give you a bug for wanting more! Aside from what OVERSQUARE comes up with, your best bet would be recently re-released FRPP headers for possibly the Torque Monster headers (see EBAY).

 

[r37ribution]

I just read performance numbers for the 5.0 from this site http://www.explorerforum.com/ntrprize/spec1997.htm
Which is listed in the useful threads section on this forum.

Engine 4.9L V8
Horsepower 211
Torque 274
Displacement 4949
Bore x Stroke 4 x 3
Compression Ratio 8.5

so section's numbers are REALLY bad especially for all the mods done, heck even without the mods...