New 5.0L Headers are HERE!

[section525]

You gotta get duals. Going with a single pipe is like drinking a wine cooler, Gay.

Terd came out from under his rock!

Where've you been!?

 

[CDW6212R]

V8BoatBuilder, I am impressed by your suggestions. I think you have an excellent grasp on what is best for street vehicles.

Do not the rear O2 sensors have to follow the cats? The computer compares in and out readings.

I think the stock pipes are all 2.25". I wouldn't change to 2.5" unless I was going to add 20% or more airflow. The horrible stock bends are a big restriction, as well as two too many cats, the muffler, and the resonator.

SECTION, one muffler and one 2.5" tailpipe would be good for almost stock, where you are now. But later, you will want less cats, two mufflers, and at least one 2.5" tailpipe. I like your choice of Magnaflow, I want to try their muffler. I like the stock sound, slight hint of sound, but I want more flow without being loud.
I have plans to make my own crossover, better than H or X. Take each pipe past the cat, split it into two 2" pipes(More flow than a 2.5"), run one over to other side, and merge them with the other two pipes.
(Two stock 2.25" into four 2" pipes, back into two 2.25" pipes)
Over half of the flow goes straight, with no restriction, and less than half turns to the other side to remerge with the flow from the other side. This is what makes full length headers(collector) produce more power than shorties.

The X pipe is a poor mans attempt to achieve this. The exhaust is forced together into a common space. This is better than an H pipe, but there is a lot of room for improvement.
CDW

 

[CDW6212R]

Dual tailpipes would be wonderful, but how much room is there around the spare, and the fuel lines.

A 3" single tailpipe would be a quick install, if it is available, and fits.

BOOMIN, do you think a 2.25" tailpipe could be fitted to the left side, and keep the spare? I plan on having a 30" spare on a 17" Mountaineer rim.

Oh, by the way, I bought a Catco 2.25" catalytic converter from JC Whitney for $55 a year ago. It's the same as the other aftermarket companies parts, and probably made at the same plant.
Best wishes,
CDW

 

[V8BoatBuilder]

V8BoatBuilder, I am impressed by your suggestions. I think you have an excellent grasp on what is best for street vehicles.

Do not the rear O2 sensors have to follow the cats? The computer compares in and out readings.

Thanks!

From what I have read, the O2s behind the cats transmit a "flat" signal to the computer, because the cat converter uses up most of the remaining oxygen in its process. From the point of view of the O2 sensor, the exhaust is "rich." If the converter fails, an uncoverted stream of exhaust will flow over these sensors and they will generate their charachteristic switching voltage, rather than a fixed one. When the EEC-V sees the rear O2's switching, it flashes the code. These rear O2s do nothing in terms of adjusting the A/F ratio. Theoretically, they can be anywhere behind the cats. What an O2 simulator does is take a 12 source as reduce it to something like 0.1 volts, and that's transmitted to the EEC, which thinks everything is OK. The normal switching ranges from 0.1-0.8 volts, with 14.7 being around 0.45 volts.

As for the front O2s, they control the A/F ratio via the injector pulse width, etc. They should retain their distance from the headers as the computer has the "lag" programmed in. A few inches difference shouldn't matter.

 

[rydinhigh]

On my 99 exhaust the rear cats have no o2's behind them. Therefore getting rid of them will not cause any check engine lights or need for o2 simulators. Also go ahead and get the catco high flows for the front. Stock exhaust pipe is 2.25". If you are going to get blown section I would get 2.5" pipe from the headers back just like the stang guys do. I don't see how duals on our trucks are best. I always thought that the earlier the exhaust exited the better. If you go duals you need to run a pipe from the pass side all the way to the drivers side therefore creating more bends and not allowing the exhaust to exit as quickly as possible. Which is why I went with a single 3" cat back

 

[V8BoatBuilder]

You could always run two pipes out the passenger side, and angle them behind the rear wheel like the old vans and pickups. Might look ok, with some nice slash cut tips. I would still do duals, one out each side. :smoke:

 

[rydinhigh]

You could always run two pipes out the passenger side, and angle them behind the rear wheel like the old vans and pickups. Might look ok, with some nice slash cut tips. I would still do duals, one out each side. :smoke:

I was going to do this but its harder than doing the true duals. There is no room underneath our trucks.

 

[tmsoko]

Go with a single 3.5". That is the route I took. Flows as much as dual 2.5" and you don'y have the issues of routing. Plus, it is nice to have a 4" tip that only increases by 1/2" over the main pipe - unlike the ricers with the 4" tip on a 2" pipe!

Check out: http://groups.msn.com/RangerKB/shoebox.msnw?Page=1

 

[boominXplorer]

BOOMIN, do you think a 2.25" tailpipe could be fitted to the left side, and keep the spare? I plan on having a 30" spare on a 17" Mountaineer rim.

Our fuel lines are too close so we have to route the pipe inside the shock by where the spare tire would be. With a regular spare my exhaust pipe basically sits on it. Any heat generated to one part of the tire will ruin it immediatly. My pipe is also 1'' away from the shock to alow for travel. So if you really want to do duals you can either make a heat sheild and hope for the best by the fuel lines or do the same but with the spare or do away with the spare all together

 

[plrs x45]

I know this may not be possible, but, one 3 inch flows better than 2-2 1/4 pipes. I learned this from the SVO mustang people. Good luck.

 

[section525]

I'm not really lookin to get dual mufflers.. especially dual tails. I don't even like me exhaust to be visible.

So it looks like I'll do this custom )( pipe in 2.25", then going into a 3" in 3" out Magnaflow. Then when the supercharged 347 goes in I'll make a 2.5" )( pipe with dual Magnaflows.

 

[V8BoatBuilder]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but using a single exhaust tailpipe and/or one muffler (such as the dual in/dual out flowmaster 50) negates the need for an H or X bridge.

 

[james t]

You are correct sir. X/H is pointless with a single exit.

 

[section525]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but using a single exhaust tailpipe and/or one muffler (such as the dual in/dual out flowmaster 50) negates the need for an H or X bridge.

But I'm making a )( pipe.. not an X pipe.

 

[Nitrous SSC]

Same thing. This is what I mentioned section. You gota run 2 muffs and go true dual if you plan on putting any type of cross over piping. A dual in muffler is its own cross pipe.

 

[CDW6212R]

Guys, I dare to disagree.
In principle, a crossover is intended to help each side to flow more, at that point. One side will be an escape route for the other, when one has a pulse while the other does not.
The reason that an X design is better than the H is because each side can better pull from the other.
The idea is to do what a full length header collector does. Each pulse helps to pull the exhaust from the other pipes. This is why shorty headers are inferior to full length headers. The magic is in the union of the pipes.

The bottom line is that if there is not too much restriction downstream, a good crossover could help. It is no big deal though, do it if it is easy, and don't if it is hard. I would because the pipes are side by side, parallel.
The larger 3" tailpipes will be louder than 2.5" or the stock 2.25" tailpipe.
Nice in depth thoughts, keep them coming.
CDW

 

[Nitrous SSC]

Well built shorties aren't "inferior" MM&FF did a test on a supercharged car using long tubes and shorties. both setups with offroad H-pipes. There was a 4hp difference, and that was with 400hp...

 

[plrs x45]

Just to jump on Nitrous SSC's post. Forced induction changes the strategy of the exhaust. When it is blown, it does not matter if it is equal or unequal, long or short, it just matters how fast and how unrestricted. Nitrous SSC is right on.

 

[CDW6212R]

Guys, be careful that you don't confuse others. Any change of ANY part will only slightly affect power. To optimize ANY change you should change many, many other things.
This is why companies like Edelbrock will advertize numbers like 75+ HP for a set of their heads, yet the magazines keeep testing them, and only finding say 25HP. To get the full potential out of ANY part, other things need to be changed. There are so many factors that have an effect on the dyno numbers, that you/everybody should try to rely on known combinations.

What I am hinting at is that, whatever is limiting the power of SECTION's engine, it is required because of the changes that he has made. When he discovers it and gets it tuned right, he will be an excellent resource for his combination.

SECTION should be listening to what other people with combinations like he is planning are doing. He should not heed advice of people with different combinations, like Mustangs(light), or turbo diesel trucks, etc.

SECTION, every application needs different parts, cams, exhaust, compression, intake, injectors, MAF, etc. The best cam for a stock Explorer will not be best for a blown 302, etc.

There is not one best of any one part, okay. Any suggestions that I have made has been with the intent of helping that one application.
In the ideal vehicle, with matched exhaust parts, intake, cam, air fuel ratio, etc.; long tube headers are much better than shorties. If you(the car magazines) build an ideal exhaust with long tube headers, and then change to shorties, the vehicle will probably lose 20+HP.
DW

 

[Nitrous SSC]

DW: The cam that he's running is actually recommended by ford racing for supercharged applications...I'm running the E in my stang and I'll prolly end up getting a custom torqey cam from FTI or Buddy Rawls for the X when the shortblock takes a dive.

The biggest 2 things holding Section back from making the power that 302 is capible of is an ECU with more performance in mind. Sometimes a Chip is just a band aid. To really unleash the power he really should get a Tweecer but I don't think he should worry about it at this point, and his exhaust.

Other than that and the explorer cam, ECU, external EGR's and not having 1.7 rollers the 5.0 engines in our trucks are almost Identical to 93-95 Cobra engines. Why shouldn't he take advice from people that have 302's and make over 1hp per CID. Besides he's also at an advantage. Most mustang people for budget builds take Explorer Intakes and the GT-40P heads and gain 30-40hp over stock at the wheels.