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Odd intermittent brake problem - SOLVED!

Yes the complexity of the ABS internals do worry me a little about what might happen in the worst case. The age of these is getting up there now, so some new odd things may appear soon. I think the ABS light displaying that the system is disabled, may be a good thing, or useful for a switch to shut it off when needed.
This thread, and the fact I've never had a vehicle with ABS that worked, (excepting my 98 Ex!) pretty much convince me to pull the fuse on MY ABS. Don't need surprises like those described! And I park on sand/gravel with little space between neighbors' much newer crossovers! Hopefully it doesn't cause any problems with any other systems by disabling ABS. Do you happen to remember which fuse it is? Thanks for sharing the info!
 



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I'll have to look it up later. It was in the power distribution block (black box) under the hood.

I went to the pick-n-pull salvage yard yesterday hoping to get an ABS unit from an '01 Sport I knew they had last week. It turned out to be the wrong one. The guides used on ebay and other sites say I need one from a 4x4 2001 or 2002 Sport Trac or Sport, but they list submodels that don't exist, like an Eddie Bauer Sport Trac and a V8 ST, so I don't know how reliable those guides are. The guy at the salvage yard showed me what he pulled up, but I concentrated on the part # more than if it included the Sport. I don't know if the part I pulled was original to that Sport - it was exceptionally clean and free of corrosion. It also appeared to be an early '01 with a Job 1 engine, so maybe there was a change. It doesn't make sense to me that the Sports and STs would use the same ABS pump - which is different than everything else - given the weight difference. With the Sport Tracs being heavier, I could see them using a unique pump, but not share one with just the Sport.

I'd prefer to buy one I take off so I can control fluid loss, but that might not be possible. One problem with buying one online is the tag with the part # is hidden behind the harness plug and most don't show that tag in the pics. That harness has a unique plug release. You pull straight up on the top of the plug and it slides up and the plug basically falls away from the ABS controller. I would never have figured that out myself. One of the YouTube videos tells and shows it. Even the few that list the part # don't show that tag, so how do they know the part #? Most just seem to cut the wires rather than unplug the harness, so they probably don't know how that plug works and haven't seen the part #. Are they just going by the guides that I know aren't 100% correct? A salvage yard 30 miles away supposedly has one, but it's on a Sport they got in in Nov. I question whether they still have it and if it's the right part. I'd gladly run up there if it is, but don't want to if it's wrong. I'll email them later.
 






I lost the brakes on my aerostar van twice due to the rear abs system. There is a valve in the rabs that equalizes the fluid pressure front and rear, if that fails you have no brakes.
 






I pulled fuse F1.28, a 30 amp fuse in the Battery Junction Box under the hood to disable the ABS. That's for a 2002 Sport Trac. May be different for your vehicle.

Well I feel like a bit of a dummy, but a relieved one. In my hurry to get to the salvage yard after work yesterday - mistakenly thinking I needed to be there by 3:00 - I didn't take time to look at the part # on the ABS pump on my truck. I didn't remember how to disconnect the harness until I got the one out at the jy anyway. After wasting this morning and early afternoon, I checked it before going to pick up my granddaughter from school, and found it matches the part # of the pump I took off at the salvage yard yesterday. Same with the '01 ST. So, I'll be going back to the salvage yard tomorrow to get it. I don't know where the part # the guides and other info say is correct comes from. Maybe it's for the pump and controller assembly, even though they both have their own part #. They do come off the vehicle together.
Since I just put 1 bolt back in and know the lines come apart easily, it'll only take a couple of minutes to remove it. Maybe I'll get this resolved in a couple of days!

To correct something I said above - the incident on the bridge happened several months after I disabled the ABS. I was just imagining what would have happened had the ABS been involved.
 






Got the ABS unit from the salvage yard this morning and installed it this afternoon. After bleeding the brakes a couple of times, I took it for a good test drive of over 10 miles, making multiple stops at various speeds. Pedal might be just a wee bit soft yet, but I was probably just hyper sensitive to it. It did seem to improve as I went. I put the fuse for the ABS back in, but the light is still on. Couldn't find a loose surface to see if it would activate if I locked the tires up.

Thanks to all who chimed in to help!
 






Well done, being steadfast is wise.

Now go mash the brakes hard when you know the pads are bedded in and do it on a nice straight road. The ABS should do something or the tires lock up if the ABS light is on. Don't lock them up for long at all, that will hurt the tires. If the tires can't be stopped then there's still too much air in the lines or ABS module.
 






The brakes definitely need bled some more. On the mile drive to church today, and especially on the way home, the brakes felt like they did on my first test drive yesterday when either I forgot to tighten the left front bleeder valve, or it doesn't want to stay tight after being opened and closed several times in this process. It seemed like it was just barely cracked open - snugger than it probably was to bleed it, but just loose enough to leak. That's the first thing I'll check tomorrow. Brakes stop the truck, but way too much pedal travel. They felt better, pretty good actually, on the longer test drive yesterday.
 






Bled the brakes twice again this morning and took it for a short test drive to the church parking lot. Brakes now feel and work great!

I also discovered the ABS light goes out and the ABS works if you actually plug the harness into the ABS module. Who'da thunk?!! I think I started to plug it in Saturday, but decided to put the fuse back in first, and then forgot I hadn't plugged the harness in. The plug naturally rests where it appears to be plugged in if you don't look close. I hit the brakes hard in the parking lot, and even though it didn't activate, I could definitely feel the ABS do something. There's a little bit of sand in places along the edge of our 1 lane deadend street, and I hit the brakes hard as a front tire hit the sand at 25-30 mph, and the ABS definitely kicked in for a second on that few feet of sand. Not enough to cycle completely, but it definitely activated.
 






Excellent. You can activate the ABS then, which will displace the fluid etc, that is inside it. That isn't a fast one time deal which will move all air out and let you bleed it out on first try. But it is a big step to get closer to expelling all remaining air.

I'd drive it normally and see how it goes for a while. Then when you are happy with everything except the possibility of a small amount of air left in it, hammer the brakes again someplace that it will activate the ABS, and bleed them again. If the brakes seem good now, then there shouldn't be much air left inside the ABS at all.
 






I do have brakes, but there is definitely air in the system, probably in the ABS. I drove about 30 miles in a couple of trips Monday afternoon, and the brakes were pretty good for the most part, but started getting some pounding through the pedal. Drove about 40 miles over a couple of trips across town and back Tuesday, and the pounding turned into what's best described as a hammering through the pedal and brakes that sounds and feels like it's mostly affecting the rear brakes. Pedal travel and feel are about what they should be though. My 4 yr old grandson asked what those bumps were. Same thing yesterday on a 9 mile trip. I unplugged the ABS for the last mile and a half, but it didn't make much difference.

Last night as I was killing time watching random stuff on YouTube, one of the video suggestions that came up was how to bleed your ABS. That guy used a scanner to auto-bleed the ABS. That scanner is about $450, so it's not an option, but another video came up where another mechanic was showing another, much cheaper scanner that syncs to your smart phone. It also can auto-bleed the ABS. It's just a dongle that plugs into the OBD port, and you download the app to your phone for free. It's $79.98 on Ebay - but at least one seller offers 20% off with their coupon code. You do have to renew the subscription after a year, and you do have to pay to add some additional programs, but ABS auto-bleed is included with purchase of the device. It just opens and closes the valves in the ABS unit electronically to force the air out into the lines, which will then need to be bled the usual way. Both scanners mentioned are Autel. I ordered the cheaper one, which is the

Autel MaxiAP AP200C Wireless OBDII Scan Tool with ABS SRS Diagnostic, ABS Bleed​

If you look into getting one of these, be sure to get the AP200C. There are 200M and 200H models, but they don't do much but read codes and/or tell you what to fix.

 






for me, i just used generic dongle+forscan to bleed... bled the air from the pump, then bled the rest of the system like normal, no problems since! if you activated abs, some of the air may have escaped into the rest o' the system
 






One commenter on the video said Forscan will do the same thing, but since I don't have a laptop or tablet, this seems like the way to go.
 






Well, bummer! The AP200C scanner arrived yesterday, and when I tried to download the program I found out my phone doesn't have the capacity to download the required 1.66 GB program.

On the upside, I did run across my daughter's laptop that she left here due to not having internet at home. My wife has a laptop I'd forgotten about as well, but I'm not sure it works properly. Wish I had found them before I ordered something I can't use. I ordered a dongle advertised as being for Forscan, and will use one of these laptops. Dongle should be here Friday. I'm getting tired of driving "Smoky". The valve cover gaskets on my '01 ST leak oil onto the exhaust like crazy. Plus the '02 gets a lot better mileage and has been mostly sitting with a full tank of gas for a month.
 






Just throwing this out there- Wife complained about the brakes in our sport trac for weeks With similar issues. Everytime I drove it I couldn't duplicate the issue. I blamed it on her stopping abilities. It wasn't until she had a car full of teenagers that could back her claim that the brakes had an issue- put new pads and shoes and found a rear wheel cylinder damp- not dripping just wet. Changed both and haven't heard her complain again.
 






I was going to wait a few more days to post this update, but since I've driven 50-60 miles yesterday and today in all kinds of traffic/driving situations and I'm sitting here not doing anything, here goes.

I was able to bleed the ABS using Forscan Saturday. Wasn't happy with the way the brakes felt on a test drive, so I ran the ABS bleed 3 more times in succession. On a subsequent drive, the hammering was still there - at times even when I wasn't braking. I decided there must be something broken inside the rear drums. I had put off pulling the drums because I absolutely hate everything about working on drum brakes - getting the drums off, dealing with all the springs and various other pieces, and getting everything back together in the right order and in the right place. I've done a lot of repairs over the years, major, minor, and some I was totally clueless about, but I'd rather do any of them than replace drum brakes. I have yet to replace valve cover gaskets on a SOHC V6 (coming this summer) or the water pump on a 5.0, so one or both of those may prove to be worse, but until then working on drum brakes is the job I hate most.

FYI - the photos in the Haynes manual and the illustrations in the factory 2002 Sport Trac repair manual are of absolutely no help. The photos in the Haynes manual are of the earlier style, and the illustrations in the Ford repair manual are hard to read and not at all like what's on my truck - and no, I wasn't looking at the illustrations for the parking brake for the disc brake rear. Oddly, rear disc brakes are covered in the 2002 Sport Trac/Sport factory manual even though the '02 STs had rear drums.

I was correct, both about hating everything about the job, and that something was broken. Everything about the right rear fought me every step of the way - both coming apart and going back together. When I pulled the right drum off, I found what may have been the cause of the whole problem. The pin that holds the rear shoe to the backing plate was gone and the spring was rolling around inside the drum. Plus the pads, or what's left of them, had separated from the steel shoes. The front one was about 50% gone, and the rear one was about 40%, and what was left of both was able to slide around. That's almost certainly what the hammering was. If the separated pieces happened to be in somewhat the right place, the brakes worked reasonably well, but in the wrong place, they caused the hammering and low pedal/lack of brakes. That's my theory.

The left side was only half as maddening as the right. The shoes were intact, but beginning to separate, and were pretty slick. Also discovered the front portion of the backing plate is warped or bent. (The truck had been totaled and rebuilt before I bought it.) I don't think it affects the fit of the shoe, but there's a gap between the backing plate and the drum at the leading edge. Both drums were in surprisingly good condition considering everything.

After replacing the brake shoes and the right wheel cylinder, and bleeding the right rear to fill the new cylinder, the truck now stops with no hammering or other symptoms. The brakes begin to engage as soon as I press the pedal, but don't fully engage until the pedal's about halfway down. Obviously, the shoes need to be adjusted outward. If I brake hard, it stops well. There's also a bit of rotational grinding from the left rear. Probably just an imperfection in the shoe or drum that will soon go away. Another possibility is the backing plate has an inner lip that has rusted and was a little bent in a couple of spots. I "straightened" it and it could be rubbing against the drum. I'll check it out and adjust the shoes when time and decent weather come together. We can't get more than 3 decent weather days a week, and we've already had 2 this week - if 50 degrees with 20+ mph wind, and upper 40s and light wind count as decent weather in mid-April when it should be around 65-70. Anyway, I'm driving the truck!
 






I was going to wait a few more days to post this update, but since I've driven 50-60 miles yesterday and today in all kinds of traffic/driving situations and I'm sitting here not doing anything, here goes.

I was able to bleed the ABS using Forscan Saturday. Wasn't happy with the way the brakes felt on a test drive, so I ran the ABS bleed 3 more times in succession. On a subsequent drive, the hammering was still there - at times even when I wasn't braking. I decided there must be something broken inside the rear drums. I had put off pulling the drums because I absolutely hate everything about working on drum brakes - getting the drums off, dealing with all the springs and various other pieces, and getting everything back together in the right order and in the right place. I've done a lot of repairs over the years, major, minor, and some I was totally clueless about, but I'd rather do any of them than replace drum brakes. I have yet to replace valve cover gaskets on a SOHC V6 (coming this summer) or the water pump on a 5.0, so one or both of those may prove to be worse, but until then working on drum brakes is the job I hate most.

FYI - the photos in the Haynes manual and the illustrations in the factory 2002 Sport Trac repair manual are of absolutely no help. The photos in the Haynes manual are of the earlier style, and the illustrations in the Ford repair manual are hard to read and not at all like what's on my truck - and no, I wasn't looking at the illustrations for the parking brake for the disc brake rear. Oddly, rear disc brakes are covered in the 2002 Sport Trac/Sport factory manual even though the '02 STs had rear drums.

I was correct, both about hating everything about the job, and that something was broken. Everything about the right rear fought me every step of the way - both coming apart and going back together. When I pulled the right drum off, I found what may have been the cause of the whole problem. The pin that holds the rear shoe to the backing plate was gone and the spring was rolling around inside the drum. Plus the pads, or what's left of them, had separated from the steel shoes. The front one was about 50% gone, and the rear one was about 40%, and what was left of both was able to slide around. That's almost certainly what the hammering was. If the separated pieces happened to be in somewhat the right place, the brakes worked reasonably well, but in the wrong place, they caused the hammering and low pedal/lack of brakes. That's my theory.

The left side was only half as maddening as the right. The shoes were intact, but beginning to separate, and were pretty slick. Also discovered the front portion of the backing plate is warped or bent. (The truck had been totaled and rebuilt before I bought it.) I don't think it affects the fit of the shoe, but there's a gap between the backing plate and the drum at the leading edge. Both drums were in surprisingly good condition considering everything.

After replacing the brake shoes and the right wheel cylinder, and bleeding the right rear to fill the new cylinder, the truck now stops with no hammering or other symptoms. The brakes begin to engage as soon as I press the pedal, but don't fully engage until the pedal's about halfway down. Obviously, the shoes need to be adjusted outward. If I brake hard, it stops well. There's also a bit of rotational grinding from the left rear. Probably just an imperfection in the shoe or drum that will soon go away. Another possibility is the backing plate has an inner lip that has rusted and was a little bent in a couple of spots. I "straightened" it and it could be rubbing against the drum. I'll check it out and adjust the shoes when time and decent weather come together. We can't get more than 3 decent weather days a week, and we've already had 2 this week - if 50 degrees with 20+ mph wind, and upper 40s and light wind count as decent weather in mid-April when it should be around 65-70. Anyway, I'm driving the truck!
I hear you about the weather! Going to be May before we get seasonable here. Glad you found the prob after all that hard work! Puzzled why you're stuck with drum brakes - my truck is older and has all discs. I suppose it would be big bucks to convert to discs from drums.
 






The Explorers went to rear discs early in 2nd Gen, but for some reason '01 and '02 Sport Tracs had drums. Don't know about the 2 door Sports.

Weather's supposed to be nice tomorrow - the 1 day a week I work - and warm but wet/stormy Fri & Sat, and cool again through next week. The farmers can't be getting much done, and even if they have anything planted, the soil isn't warm enough for much to grow. Has it been windy there too? It seems like the wind blows anywhere from 20-40 miles an hour most days, even 50 mph a couple of days. Been that way for a couple of months. Weather is one reason this project has gone on for so long. Some combination of windy, rainy, cold, or I didn't have parts or know what to do next on the good days.
 






As far as converting to discs, an Explorer rear is pretty much a bolt in swap. My son's '97 Mountaineer has a 3.73 like my truck, but limited slip. That would be nice, but it only has 140,000 miles, so unless it gets wrecked that swap won't happen.
 






As far as converting to discs, an Explorer rear is pretty much a bolt in swap. My son's '97 Mountaineer has a 3.73 like my truck, but limited slip. That would be nice, but it only has 140,000 miles, so unless it gets wrecked that swap won't happen.
is there a JY near you? mayeb you can find a low mile one! the LS in mine is nice, cant wait to replace the clutches!
 



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There is, but LS is not a priority. I don't offroad, so with 4WD and my driving ability this truck will go anywhere I want it to. Growing up on a farm 12 miles from town without 4WD or limited slip (or ABS), I learned how to drive on slick and muddy surfaces. I try to use 4WD as little as possible in the winter just for the challenge - as long as there's no other traffic around.
 






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