One Pissed off customer....

[Tony91Sport]

Ok guys heres my problem, i just had my motor rebuilt/remanufactured. EVERYTHING inside is new. I had the machine shop put an aftermarket cam (a comp cam). Well, a customer service rep. at comp cams said this was a stock replacement that required NO modifications, but would work well with them. So i got my cam, had it put in, and ever since i got the thing back, (2 weeks ago) it has been beating the hell out of my rocker arms, literaly. Well the lifters ended up being too short. The machine shop didnt tell me this until my car was put back together, and since it was my cam there is no warranty on it (the cam). After a day, i called the machine shop, and the owner told me all the tolerences were off, well, i thought, i wish he would have told me that, and i would have just left the cam as stock. Now i feel it was his duty to tell me the car was not going to run right when he was re-assembling the engine. Now who do i blame for my engine running like complete crap, the machine shop, or comp cams. Comp said No mods needed, and the shop didnt tell me it would run like crap. The guy at the shop told me he could put the stock cam in for $500 (his bare bare price), And i could return my Comp cam ($250), but this would still leave me out $250, which i refuse to pay. So who do i call and give a piece of my mind???

Tony 91 Sport
Flowmaster
Custom conical K&N filter
MSD
Accel wires
Bosch Plugs
Comp Cam (*******)
Ported-n-Polished
Bored .40 over


[This message has been edited by AJ91SPORT (edited 03-03-2000).]

 

[Carolina Express]

Well, my opinion...

First let me say I've used several Comp cams through the years and never had a problem. However, it looks like there's a little fault at both places.

On one hand, Comp told you everything would work with no problem, so it definitely should have.

On the other hand, if the machine shop was competent at all, they should have done checking of the parts and definitely should have notified you that the cam and lifters wouldn't work together BEFORE assembling your engine. That's what they get paid for, they're supposed to be professional about it.

Both probably deserve to be *****ed out, but it may do no good. You could see a lawyer, but it'd probably cost more than correcting the problem. The best of all solutions would be if they would work together to offset the cost of getting your engine running correctly, but that's probably going to difficult if not impossible to do. Make sure to speak with someone who is in charge or high in management and tell them the problem. You never can tell, maybe they'll work with you...

A thought - since you have the ohv engine, maybe there could be a solution in using slightly longer pushrods to take up the slack. You might check with Comp on this, since it would probably be cheaper than tearing down the engine to replace the cam.

Come to think about it, why would the lifters be too short? The cam should have at least had as much lift as the stocker, there wouldn't be any point in making a smaller-than-stock cam as a performance replacement. Is it possible the machine shop didn't "pump" the lifters full of oil before installation?
I am asking kind of generally, because I've never rebuilt an Explorer engine, but I assume it's similar to other pushrod engines...

------------------
92 XLT

 

[us2btech]

In my opinion I would get the specs from comp cam and compare them to the specs of the stocker. If anything the lift on the comp cam should be higher if not the same as on the stock cam. The duration may be different but that doesn't matter. In other words the lifters should not be too short.
Check the specs, thats the only way to be sure without pulling the motor apart. Only my opinion. Hope I helped.

------------------
92 4dr 4.0L 4x4
K&N, modified airbox
dynomax exhaust
more to come

 

[JAY]

I would put blame on both Comp and the machine shop. I am running a Comp cam in my Explorer and had the same problem (kinda) Comp told me that it was a direct replacement but when I went to install it I found that the pushrods were too short. I went to a reputable machine shop asking questions (they already had my heads). Once I brought them the cam card we found the problem. The cam is smaller on the back side (when the valve would be closed) and we also found out we needed different valve springs. I called Comp with this info and sure enough the machine shop was right, I did need to replace both. Comp at the time did not carry either (though I think they do now) so I had to custom order the pushrods and springs.
Since all this I have not had any problems with the cam. I have already upgraded to Comp's larger cam and am still very happy with their product, just not their inital customer service.

JAY

 

[DOGMAN]

Tony,

It sounds like you did not use a reputable machine shop. I would put the blame for everything on their shoulders, since you are paying them to make everything work together. If something you desired wasn't going to work right, they should tell you. They evidently don't care too much about their reputation and the chance for repeat business.

In my opinion, when looking to rebuild a motor and warm it over a bit, use someone who does that regularly, not someone that just cranks out stock spec rebuilds. Motor building is a science, and it sounds like your shop was out at recess when they were teaching all the important aspects of the craft.

I would go with someone who has ties to racing, and would most certainly get a number of references from previous customers.

A word of advice: Try it before you buy it! Take someone from the shop with you to see if everything runs right. And get some type of warranty in writing to state that the motor will run properly.

If the shop won't work with you, call the local Better Business Bureau and tell them of your plight. If that doesn't work, try the mayor of the town the shop is in. No one likes to have bad media PR. Just let them know, if they arn't going to be honest and fair, you're going to let everyone know that fact. You'd be amazed at what you can get done with this approach.

Good luck.

------------------
DOGMAN
91 4dr 5sp
5.5" Superlift
"Downhill is just uphill in the opposite direction"

 

[Tony91Sport]

Actually, this is a good shop, ive seen their work. They have a bad ass twin turbo delorean (sp?). When going throught the phone book, their name was the first ive seen "Al Hovis Performance Engines", i mean how could i go wrong. Well i did research, talked to customers, and even looked around their shop. All was good. Anyway to make a long story short, i called comp cams, and they told me i needed 50 thousandths inch longer pushrods. I figure they couldnt be lyieng, because they didnt sell them, and had no reason to screw me over. So i called a place that specialized in pushrods, (Smith Bros. pushrods) and ordered adjustable ones. Ill get them on wed. and hopefully have everything running by fri. Ive never been under the valve cover, or done anything deeper than that, but i think i can do this if all i have to do is pull the rocker arms. Has anyone done this before? Are the rocker arms the only thing i have to remove to install pushrods? Is it just as simple as pullin out the old ones, and puttin in the new ones?

Tony 91 Sport

 

[SteveVB]

Tony,

Get a manual it will have all of the specs for retorquing the bolts. But basically take off the valve covers, losen the three rocker shaft bolts, remove the rocker shaft assembly, and pull out the pushrods, and reinstall the new ones, put the rocker shaft back on- torque the bolts to spec and replace the valve covers.

Get a new machine shop, they should have looked at the valve geometry before they let it go out the door.

As JAY pointed out the the replacement cams have a smaller base circle which necessitates the longer pushrods-the amount of lift they have doesnt really matter. I have to say that the conversations I had with Comp Cams about the 4.0 cam were disappointing they didnt seem to have much info avail to the rep.

Hope that helps a little



------------------
Steve VB
91 Navajo
2 1/2" Rancho,
31" Goodyear AT/S

 

[MyExp]

I would call the better business bureau on that shop man. Coming from a business law background, the shop is an agent of yours, which means they have the obligation to notify you of any problems that can be easily forseen. They should have been able to notice this problem with your cam.
It sounds like the shop was in to screw you over from the begining. They probably slapped it togehter knowing it would run crappy and hope you would come back for further repair.

Comp cams should have also notified you of any forseen problems.

I think you got screwed twice. Comp cams may have been negiligent, your machine shop may have been more than just negligence.

brian

 

[Tony91Sport]

Thanks guys, i think im gonna call the BBB and a tv station in my area that has a thing about prosecuting buisnesses that screw people over.

Tony 91 Sport