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Pats

RangerSVT

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To see if your tuner is unlocked(it should be as if its vin locked the dealer can't upload any custom tunes to it) go to your main menu, scroll down to where it shows how many available unlocks there are(should say 5 unlocked or stock. If it says aftermarket, its vin locked and will need to go to SCT to be unlocked at a price of $150 (ask me how I know...be careful when buying used handhelds)...

SVT
 
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TestPoint

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First, the fpr (fuel pump relay), it is grounded by the ecu ONLY when pats has been satisfied.
When this sage first started the FPR was not getting a ground from the PCM. During the many, many attempts at uploading the custom tune it suddenly began working. Nothing was done out in the engine bay to change anything.

. . . verify that your wiring is intact by hooking up a known working pre-pats ecu (96-97 ex V8 ecu).
This is my original question to you in PM. If I go buy an '96-'97 PCM is it going to plug-n-play with the '00 Explorer set up. Related, will any '96-'97 V8 PCM work or do I need to focus on the Explorer.

. . . if the tuner successfully deletes pats, your theft light will not flash, blink, or illuminate.
No theft light, remember this is an engine swap into a 30 year Volvo.

. . . go to your main menu, scroll down to where it shows how many available unlocks there are(should say 5 unlocked or stock).
This device was purchased new from Henson Performance. It displays locked to a 5.0L Explorer with 4 locks remaining.

Thanks for your assistance!
 
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RangerSVT

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96-97 V8 ecu (must be ex) will plug and play, but it will run pig rich as the 96-97 ecu controls fuel pressure from the fuel rail (96-97 is return fuel rail style, 99-01 is returnless, fuel pressure is regulated inside the tank at the pump, 98-01 uses pats, hence the reason for 96-97) when I installed my 99 donor's V8 into my 02 Trac, I used a 97 ecu for about a week til i could get to my SCT dealer's shop to get my handheld custom tune uploaded (pats delete, egr delete, rear O2 delete). I understand the ground for your fpr, but to simplify things, and solve a questionable issue, its best to cut the ground from the ecu, and ground the relay...

SVT
 

RangerSVT

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About your tuner, if its locked to it, and your ecu turns out to be bad, you will need to unlock it (return to stock tune) before you can program another ecu. Try not to swap from ecu to ecu as each time you do, you use 1 of your 5 allotted slots, even if its an ecu you previously used...

SVT
 

2000StreetRod

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injectors or fuel pump?

I suggest that you confirm whether the fuel pump or fuel injectors are being disabled. If you have 60 psi of fuel pressure at the rail then the pump is not being disabled. I would not defeat the path between the fuel pump relay and the PCM unless there is inadequate fuel pressure. I suspect there is adequate fuel pressure but the injectors are not being energized.
 

TestPoint

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I installed an adjustable after market fuel pressure regulator to address the fuel rail issue. It is set at 65 psi. The Volvo has a return fuel line. The PCM activated FPR is operating reliably at the moment.

The injectors are not activated, B+ but no pulsed ground. Good spark, runs on starter fluid.

James Henson 'locked' the device to the stock strategy number before delivering it.
 

RangerSVT

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No ground pulse (which comes directly from ecu) is from pats not being satisfied. I suspect a bad ecu. If you have access to a breakout box, that would be one thing I would do. First thing I would try is pre-pats ecu. This will tell you if the rest of the system is functioning as it should.

SVT
 

TestPoint

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I don't mind buying a '96-'97 PCM if that is a solution rather than a test. You can pick them up on eBay for $50-$60 all day. It is really not a test of the PCM as it would appear that the injectors are being correctly disabled by the PATS.

Do you know if James can 'tune' away the fuel rail issue? If not, it is only a test of the wiring. I really believe the wiring is correct.

Only if the new PCM could be 'tuned' by the SCT device would it comment on the health of the PCM. If it does not program it does nothing to test the wiring, SCT device and software.

I am thinking a better test would be to move the locked PCM to another Explorer and see if the device will program it. At least that way I would end up with a fully programmed PCM without using up a lock. Failing to program would reduce the problem by the wiring only still leaving SCT device, software and PCM.

I use straight pins through the wiring for breakout test and have done that ad nauseum so I know that everything works except for the injectors.

There was earlier discussion on this thread that the PATS module should be in place in order to program the PCM. I could not understand that since any added module would not be synced and would appear to be inaffective. I tried that and it caused all sorts of issues with the SCT device ending up with a P1262 - Theft dectected - vehicle disabled.

Trailering the car down to the Ford dealer to sync the module so I could take it home and program the PCM to disable PATS seems somewhat of a stretch.

This issue is ultimately going to be solved to my relief after a 3 year engine swap and to the benefit of the Explorer community on the never ending saga of PATS.

Thanks for your comments.
 

CDW6212R

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The breakout box does two important things. First and far more important it protects the PCM from damage caused by incidentally applying a voltage to the PCM. The second thing it does it make troubleshooting easier.

I suggest calling a Ford technician before spending more money or driving anywhere else. Ask what happens when any 98-01 Explorer PCM experiences a start attempt when an un-synched PATS module is in place.

Will these type "B" PATS systems disable the PCM until they are re-synched by the Ford diagnostic tool? I doubt that is the case, but you don't want to spend more money or use up two or more of the Excal "locks" to find out. If the Ford tech can't shed any light on that, then it only wastes the time of the phone call.
 

RangerSVT

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My Trac uses a type E pats system, basically it does away with the transponder. It goes from the key to the transceiver to the ecu. Since my donor ecu is not set up for this type, deleting pats from the ecu allows me to install this motor in any vehicle whether or not it had any type of pats. Having a tuner to delete pats does away with any need to have any part of pats in the system. Using a 96-97 return fuel style ecu can be programmed to run returnless, which might be an option worth investing in. From what you have been through, I'm about 95% sure your ecu is bad. My suggestion is to acquire a pre-pats ecu, plug it up and drive away. Next would be to get a custom tune to set your ecu to returnless fuel system to get the correct parameters for the ecu...

SVT
 

RangerSVT

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Will these type "B" PATS systems disable the PCM until they are re-synched by the Ford diagnostic tool? I doubt that is the case, but you don't want to spend more money or use up two or more of the Excal "locks" to find out. If the Ford tech can't shed any light on that, then it only wastes the time of the phone call.
Yes, it will. Not having the system subvert will have the same effect as trying to use a key that is not introduced into the system. It will think that it is trying to start using a method besides the key that was programmed, so it will communicate to the ecu/pcmcia that its an unauthorized start, therefore preventing a start by denying signal to the injectors...

SVT
 

TestPoint

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Simple question:

Can a SCT 3015 device upload a custom tune to a PCM with 'B' type PATS without a functioning PATS module, key transceiver and valid key?
 

TestPoint

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James requested the stock strategy number which I provided. He then sent me the custom tune which I loaded into the SCT device.

You would appear to have the 'E' type PATS. I wonder if that makes a difference from my 'B' type. I found a locksmith type web site that had different procedures for the B/E types for syncing keys to the PCM. Don't know if that means anything or just adds another point of confusion.
 

CDW6212R

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Yes, it will. Not having the system subvert will have the same effect as trying to use a key that is not introduced into the system. It will think that it is trying to start using a method besides the key that was programmed, so it will communicate to the ecu/pcmcia that its an unauthorized start, therefore preventing a start by denying signal to the injectors...

SVT
Yes, as long as the dealer uploaded the file into your handheld (mine did)...

SVT

My thought is that the flasher has the correct program in it without PATS, but if the PCM will not take it yet due to the use of a PATS module it didn't recognize, how do you get the PCM to accept the new program?


The only experience I had with PATS was in 2007, having my 99 wrecked SOHC Explorer, dealer programmed to new keys. I witnessed the two minutes required to connect the diagnostic tool to begin to erase the key programming, and the 5-10 minutes the diagnostic tool operated to complete the task. It didn't work the first time, so the whole process took about 20 minutes. That's just what it takes to reset the PCM and PATS to a clean slate. At that point the PCM will accept any one coded key, and the next only requires the first. After that it's like a normal system, it takes two already programmed keys to add another, up to eight total.
 

RangerSVT

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James requested the stock strategy number which I provided. He then sent me the custom tune which I loaded into the SCT device.

You would appear to have the 'E' type PATS. I wonder if that makes a difference from my 'B' type. I found a locksmith type web site that had different procedures for the B/E types for syncing keys to the PCM. Don't know if that means anything or just adds another point of confusion.
My Trac is type E, but the ecu I programmed is B. Since the two are different, my setup was not sync'd (the ecu is part of the pats). After I uploaded my custom tune, my system functioned as if pats was never introduced into the system, as it should.
Doesn't matter if the pats system is sync'd or not, the deletion file from SCT takes care of it. I do however don't like the idea of your handheld being vin locked to your ecu prior to you loading the software into your ecu, but that's my thoughts. I can talk to my SCT guy about it if you'd like, but I'd be willing to bet he would be in agreeance with my thoughts as I talked to him in great detail about my setup and tune...

SVT
 

RangerSVT

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My thought is that the flasher has the correct program in it without PATS, but if the PCM will not take it yet due to the use of a PATS module it didn't recognize, how do you get the PCM to accept the new program?
Think of it this way...when you have a virus or corrupt files on your computer, and you format the hard drive, it rids of all files, both functioning and corrupt. Then you load new, fresh complete functioning software into your harddrive. That is what the SCT tuning software/custom tune file does, but it copies the stock software to a file so it can be returned to stock if the need arises...

SVT
 

TestPoint

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My Trac is type E, but the ecu I programmed is B. Since the two are different, my setup was not sync'd (the ecu is part of the pats). After I uploaded my custom tune, my system functioned as if pats was never introduced into the system, as it should.
Doesn't matter if the pats system is sync'd or not, the deletion file from SCT takes care of it.
I would completely agree with that . . . in concept . . . unencumbered with knowledge or experience.

Think of it this way...when you have a virus or corrupt files on your computer, and you format the hard drive, it rids of all files, both functioning and corrupt. Then you load new, fresh complete functioning software into your hard drive. That is what the SCT tuning software/custom tune file does, but it copies the stock software to a file so it can be returned to stock if the need arises...
. . . but my device is not removing the stock strategy. When I go to 'Vehicle Information' after a custom tune programming attempt it still shows the stock strategy. Nothing happened.
 

RangerSVT

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You mentioned that when attempting to upload, it said it failed. The reason for this fail can only be one or more of only three reasons...
1. Lack of communication between ecu and handheld.
-Improbable since the handheld can properly scan for dtc's
2. Improperly loaded file to the handheld.
-Improbable since you have been in contact with dealer and SCT(but still slight chance). Could also be that strategy/vin locking included in custom file is wrong information(this is why I prefer not to 'lock' the handheld to a particular ecu, but let the handheld choose to lock to the ecu once its programmed)
3. Ecu is malfunctioning.
-Possible, if #2 is correct and satisfied.

SVT
 
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