Problem: Key fobs not working/Alarm going off

[aldive]

It's an optional factory alarm. This is not aftermarket by definition.

Sorry, but I think you are mistaken.

 

[Donner]

I'll reword it...

By definition it is not aftermarket. It didn't come from the factory either.

It's an optional item installed either at the dealer's request (by the dealer's third party)

Or at the customer's request for a "dealer-installed" alarm, but installed by the dealer's third party.

In this case, it's not a traditional or typical aftermarket, like say something you can pick up at Best Buy. It is distributed by an aftermarket party, but for this purpose only: Ford Lincoln Mercury.

 

[gijoecam]

While it was, in fact, available through the dealer network, it was not a factory item, period. It was a Ford-branded aftermarket system, plain and simple. It didn't roll off the assembly line with one, and it couldn't be ordered with one, and was built and supplied to Ford and their dealer network by an aftermarket supplier. CodeAlarm makes them currently, and someone else supplied them for a short period of time. The fact that it cannot have come from the factory makes it an aftermarket system, plain and simple.

[/hijack]

Neither here nor there for solving the original poster's issues...

-Joe

 

[Donner]

You answered the poster perfectly...

I think 05warrior's is still unresolved, not sure.

 

[outlier]

Actually, this is all interesting!

I just assumed all along that the alarm was OEM, especially as there is a Ford-branded manual.

Here's the latest: The key fobs and alarm are now working as they should...

 

[Donner]

Alright! Then I would like to add that aftermarket means not factory, that's simple. But when someone asks if something is aftermarket, they are asking if it came from a store somewhere where they can pick it up... maybe it's regional. I don't know if in CA everyone thinks this, but I do. I would say your alarm was dealer installed, not aftermarket.

 

[aldive]

Alright! Then I would like to add that aftermarket means not factory, that's simple. But when someone asks if something is aftermarket, they are asking if it came from a store somewhere where they can pick it up... maybe it's regional. I don't know if in CA everyone thinks this, but I do. I would say your alarm was dealer installed, not aftermarket.

Post something useful or let it rest, please. Joe has provided the answer.

 

[Donner]

This thread was about many things...

Those are some serious experiences... Well, you might want to seek out one GIJoecam regarding your alarm system. There are many others also that can help you avoid that dealership...

{blushing} thanks for the tip, but I'm no expert... just a resourceful idiot with some spare time.

I need to do some digging at work in the AM, but something doesn't sound right... Is this the OEM anti-theft system we're talking about here, or an aftermarket alarm system? Using the OEM key in the door should definitely NOT cause the alarm to go off, nor should it lock up the ignition. Placing a programmed key in the ignition and turning the ignition on should deactivate the system and allow the vehicle to start. If it's not, there's something else going on....

I've also never heard reference to a bypass switch under the hood... that's a new one for me. What page of the manual was it in? I need to read-up on it before being able to make even a half-arse'd guess....

-Joe

Actually, this is all interesting!

I just assumed all along that the alarm was OEM, especially as there is a Ford-branded manual.

Here's the latest: The key fobs and alarm are now working as they should...

The original call was to GIJoecam by me because there are so many facets to this thread. All of this information is useful. I respectfully called on GIJoecam for this reason: to clarify many issues. There are still more. And as for posting something useful, we must all do the same

 

[05warrior]

Yeah, theoretically, I'm still unresolved. But its sort of like trying to describe a random rattle over the phone. Probably just not gonna get it. I'm pretty sure he had the front locks replaced and rekeyed, then lost the new keys. As to why the ignition key won't shut off the alarm... who knows.

 

[Donner]

Did you already do the reprogramming of everything? You have the same system as Outlier? (I didn't wanna go back to reread, sorry).

 

[jad2411]

When I got my truck, the lady at the lot told me she had lost the keys along with the remote so she had the one for the engine made which did not open the door locks, I went to a locksmith and he used that key to change the locks on the doors, now all 3 locks and the switch work with the same key (I think I paid ~$120)
But on my gf's 95 she got 2 keys from car lot one of them (round) only starts the engine and doesn't open doors the other one (sqare) works on all 3 locks and the engine
On another note, the locksmith told me that most people don't use the key to open the door as the remote will unlock, so he has a lot of work cleaning stuck locks, maybe you can go to a locksmith and have him look at your doors, or maybe try some wd40 before going?

 

[jad2411]

Ok, so this might be the reasson the key won't turn off the alarm system

On level 3 & 4 of the ford security systems the alarm module has 1 arm input 1 disarm input, the arm wire is conected to the rap module on the lock wire, the disarm, on the unlock, thus when you press the unlock on your fob it will disarm the system, that's why you can not disarm by using the key alone, hope this helps

 

[05warrior]

Thanks. I think I'll just buy a fob on eBay for 10 bucks, program it, and call it a day. End of post, end of thread, I think we can call this one over.

 

[wood1]

If the truck does not have a factory alarm, and it would seem that your does not, there would most likely not be a "key sense" wire in the door lock cylinder so if you unlock with the key the alarm will sound.

In effect the vehicle doesn't know that you are unlocking the door and that you are allowed to. As far is it is concerned the proper owner should be unlocking/disarming with the fob. You might as well be throwing a rock through the window, reaching inside and unlocking the truck that way. (providing it doesn't have a shock sensor that is)

Factory alarm systems have this key sense wire in the door and that is why you can always turn off a factory alarm by unlocking the door with the key.

The PATS system is designed to not allow the engine to start unless you have one of the proper programmed keys. They have a transponder embedded in them and when the ignition cylinder is turned and the ignition is turned on the PATS antenna around the key cylinder generates an electromagnetic field and and causes the transponder to "light up" Each transponder has a given value and if the PATS computer recognizes that value, your engine starts. The two systems are not connected.

If the vehicle had a remote car starter, you would have to install a PATS bypass module to fool the computer into thinking that you were there sitting in the driver's seat turning one of the programmed keys in the ignition. It would also have to be hooked up to the alarm system to send that disarm pulse before trying to start.

Sorry for being long winded, hope that helps.

 

[High_Order1]

Here, lookit:

http://fparts.dealerfit.com/store/ford-explorer-vehicle-security-prod831_8569.php

That is the Ford Explorer Vehicle Security System. It IS a Ford product. Even has a Ford part number. But, it's not a factory option. It IS, like GIJoe says, a dealer - installed option, like the better sound systems.

For the price, I think I would go with a third party system, with more features for the dollar. Only downside is that I am betting the Ford system is easier to install.

-Shawn

 

[jad2411]

Dude! 1 year later.... hehehe

those systems are made by Code alarm, and install just like any other alarm

 

[gijoecam]

Ford didn't design the system. CodeAlarm built it and stuck a Ford sticker on the side of it... It's still an aftermarket unit. It's no easier to install than the equivalent aftermarket unit... I've seen the instructions. The difference is that
a) It's installed in parallel to the PATS system and fully compatible.
b) The same system isn't available from CodeAlarm (Exclusively through the dealer)
c) It's a Ford-supported accessory, just like a bug deflector, cargo liner, or any of the myriad accessories they sell at the dealer. (i.e. if you have a problem, you can take it to a dealership and have it fixed)

Just because they sell it at a dealer doesn't make it an OEM product.

 

[High_Order1]

hey -


nothing to me to revive a dead thread..... IT LIVES!

seriously, it was an interesting topic.

GiJoe - hey. So, this thing needs the hidden key trick to defeat pats? I was really hoping for something that would keep the pats active. When it works, I think its' a good concept. You sound kinda knowledgable about alarms. You recommend one over another?

-Shawn

 

[jad2411]

No need for a hidden key, that's so 90's LOL the new modules do not need a key, they have a chip inside that is programed so that the car "thinks" that there is a key present

 

[gijoecam]

Exactly... Any halfway decent system should have an integrated PATS bypass module that doesn't use a hidden key.

And I know jack about aftermarket alarms, and marginally more about the OEM and Ford/CodeAlarm systems.