R37, IFS gear box install

[r37ribution]

Thanks for the info. nissanboy's recommendation for the steering upgrade is making the nissan setup sound better and better. I want to install whatever steering setup has the most aftermarket support. I think I'll do some searching around for the F150 equivilant of the upgrade nissanboy posted.

 

[r37ribution]

Well I finally found a yard with 3 cropped off front frames layin around. They have two complete F150 and one LD F250 steering setups. I guess the steering on the 150 and Light Duty 250 uses the same part numbers.

I need to take some measurements of my X and go back to see just how feasible a 150/250 setup actually is. I must say it looks BEEFY. They yard wanted $400 for all parts related to steering and said they would cut the frame mounts off for me, maybe I can use them.

I found another cool upgrade for the yotas setting on Zhanx's D44 build page:
http://www.trail-gear.com/images/highsteerkit-600.jpg

 

[r37ribution]

So I FINALLY bought my steering setup.

I picked up the entire steering linkage off a '96 F150 IFS for $150 (one of the years Ford offered both the boxy style with a solid front and the rounded body with IFS). The yard was nice enough to cut off the sections of the frame the idler arm and gear were bolted to.

The width is a little too long and the lower engine cradle will need to be notched/reinforced to provide room for full lock-to-lock of the gear and idler arm. The linkage from the steering dampener to the gear is the same on the X and the F150 so that will be easy. It also looks like the dampener has plenty of room to extend so the gear not being in the exact same location as the rack shouldn't be a problem.

So I'm gonna lay the linkage down next to the old rack and measure difference in length there is between the two and figure out how I'm gonna make it fit. I'll try to post some pics in the next couple of days.

 

[r37ribution]

Ha, couple of days he says...

I haven't been doing nothing all this time though. I got the engine out, LCAs dropped, RCD drop down bracket off and rack pulled.

Anyways here are the measurements, all of which were taken from the center of the tie rod bolt hole or the center of the joint:
Explorer's stock rack & pinion - 26"
My Explorer's alligned tie rod to tie rod length measured from the center of the bolt hole on tie rod (steering knuckle side) to the center of the joint on the rack - 12.75"
'96 F150 relay rod - 27"
'96 F150 tie rod to tie rod, assuming the parts truck was alligned correctly - 16.5"

So I will need to come up with a different tie rod setup but the relay rod is only an inch longer than the stock rack. So if I make up tie rods for each side where the tie rod can be adjusted around 12.25" I should be in buisness, right? lol throw me a bone here...

 

[V8BoatBuilder]

This is cool!

 

[gavin]

will the Explorer TRE fit on the F150 tie-rod?
almost looks like without the adjuster sleeve, and just having the Explorer TRE on the F150 tie-rod would give you the correct length (atleast on the pass. side... as long as I'm seeing the picture correctly)

edit: well I'm retarted. the F150 pieces are obviously larger diameter than the Explorer parts...so duh my idea won't work! haha.

 

[r37ribution]

Pictures of the new hardware sitting in position:

Pics of the gearbox's mounting holes around the X's frame from the bottom:

Single mount from the top of the frame:

The frame buldges in the middle around the center of where the steering gear would mount (shouldn't be a problem since the sleeves will put the gear about 1/2" away from the frame):

So the little black triangle thing laying on the ground in the first pic was used as a spacer between the gear and the frame on the F150. I need to fab a bracket (maybe two) that sits on the top and bottom of the frame and has sleeves to reinfoce the mounting holes (as did the inside of the F150's frame) so that tightening down the bolts doesn't squash the frame and makes the mounting point stronger. These sleeves need to be the width of the frame + the width of the bracket.

The other problem is that the relay rod (1st 3 pics) is too long. I need to cut out about 2" to make the pitman arm and the idler arm sit parallel/straight and equidistant/parallel from the frame on both sides. My buddy had an idea where after I cut the 2" out of the frame I could thread each side, one reverse thread and put an adjustment in there (like a tie rod) since its going to be hard to cut and weld it back together with the length dead on.

Here are the frame measurements:
When I refer to the rear of the truck I'm talking about where the bolts would mount on the right side of the 4th and 5th pics and left side of the 6th pic.
-Rear part of frame is 5 3/8" tall and 2 3/4" wide
-Middle of the frame that buldges out is 5 1/2" tall and 3" wide. Same section ignoring the buldges is 2 5/8" wide.
-Front is 5 1/2" tall and 2 5/8" wide.
-I forgot to measure the width of the spacer that was inbetween the gear and the frame on the F150. I will add this width to that of the frame to get the length of the sleeve.

Foreseen issues:
-The steering linkage between the firewall and the gear seems to extend out long enough (see pic 1 & 2), the linkage is compressed all the way and the part hangin down off the gear will be removed so that the linkage bolts straight up to the gear. Also the bolt hole where the linkage mounted up to the stock rack seems to be exactly the same as what the F150 used on the gear so it should bolt right up.
-The position of the front part of the gear is extremely close to the frame/crossmember/brakeline (pic 3).
-Even after shortening the relay rod I will have to notch out and box the crossmemeber to allow for full lock-to-lock motion of the idler and pitman arms (pic 1).
-I may need to notch a small portion of the frame out for the sleeves/brackets to be lined up with the bolt holes on the gear (pic 4 and 5). It seems to fit fine in the pics but with the added diameter of the sleeves I'm not so sure.

Order of fabrication:
-So first I want to get the new steering gear mounted, it's position will determine by how much I need to shorten the relay rod.
-Next comes the cutting/threading of the relay rod.
-Finally, fab up a mount for the idler arm.

 

[410Fortune]

wow that 5.0L is going to a be a tight fit with that box sitting there??

Nice work so far, looks alot like the Stupidlift Stupidrunner steering for TTB trucks
when we first got our 07 FJ and I lifted it I was like Dang why didnt Ford use this simple steering setup on their IFS trucks?
rack and pinion is nice but what a PITA to replace!!

 

[r37ribution]

I was thinking the same thing...
I will be taking measurements of my donner before I do any welding/cutting.

I really don't see anything nice about the rack, would love to hear some pro's. All I have run into are the cons, but I haven't ran a gear before so hopefully I'm going in the right direction. I've heard that they are prone to leaking and not as nice of a ride as a rack is.

I'm a lil tired, FJ?

 

[410Fortune]

Toyota FJ Cruiser, my wifes rig

No leaks on mine, 2nd box 300K miles.
I had my gear box rebuilt about 250K miles at a local shop, $150

 

[r37ribution]

Ah ok I got ya now, thought u were in favor of a rack for a second there. Yeah was really disappointed when I found out that the new F150s converted over to the dark side...

 

[r37ribution]

Update:
So the idea of threading the relay rod may have changed to cutting it and welding in this adjustable F350 piece:

 

[r37ribution]

Some very nice updates to come...

We decided not to go with the adjustable relay rod since that would sacrifice some durability.

 

[r37ribution]

Picture of new relay rod and box for idler arm to go on top and bottom of the frame. I know that the box will probably be in the way of the 5.0L but it looks like it will clear the 4.0L for now. I will shorten the box when I install the 302 and put an L bracket on the idler arm to lower it down.

Crappy pic of the gear bracket from under the frame:

Outside bracket:

Temp bracket for the idler arm:

 

[r37ribution]

Alright its done. I'll have pics posted here soon.

 

[r37ribution]

Notice how close all the tolerances are. You can see in pic 3 and 4 and how perfectly the position of the steering wheel linkage fit in place. Everything fitted so well we couldn't believe it!

I had a machinist reweld the relay rod to the correct length. He sleeved the rod with 1/4" steel tubing and cross drilled four holes thru the tubing into the rod and back filled with weld.

Everything is equidistant and perpendicular.

There is a 1/4" steel bushing inside the frame where the upper bolt is for the pitman arm. This way when the bolts really get wrenched down the frame doesn't collapse.

All hardened bolts. I have both hardened locking and standard hardened washers for them.

I want to weld a solid piece of 1/4" steel ( same thickness as the rest of the box for the idler arm mount ) to the inside of the box facing the control arms. This will box the bracket in that much stronger. You can see where I want this piece in pic one.

The upper bolt for the driver's side sway bar is not in. I have a spacer/bushing for it because the bracket for the steering gear was in the way. I need to buy a longer bolt. The bushing is a shorter version of the one in the pic under the frame for the lower bolts on the bracket for the steering gear (pic 6).

I will notch the top of the sway bar 1/4" near the pitman/idler arms to gain extra clearance.

The inner tie rods are now beefy and greasable!

I still need to pound in the frame about 1/4" - 1/2" on the engine cradle to make rom for full lock-2-lock steering on the knuckels. It's almost there already, I won't have to knock in much.

 

[dkchrist]

with that sway bar gone you would have more room

 

[V8BoatBuilder]

Look really neat.

Roughly (as these things are hard to estimate), how many hours/dollars do you have into the conversion?

 

[r37ribution]

Look really neat.

Roughly (as these things are hard to estimate), how many hours/dollars do you have into the conversion?

Thanks!

I've been working on my motor more than the steering lately. I was just going to just replace just the heads but that turned into a basic rebuild, then a cam, then port and polish, now I want a bullet proof bottom end and my Eaton M90 on top lol. So the 5.0 will be waiting a while. I got the engine all stripped down to just the heads and block and will be taking it and all my upgrades including the 422 cam to Am Car for an overhaul. Just gotta figure out what compression ratio Eaton recommends for the m90.

To do:
Anyways, I still need to heat up and pound in the engine cradle a little bit. I almost got everything painted - 3 coats of primer and 3 coats of black paint. I just primed the frame/cradle so it wouldn't rust til I have time to heat it up. I also want to keep my front sway bar so it needs to be machined down a little bit on one side.

I believe we figured in around 30 - 40 hours time on the install. We were taking our sweet time because I didn't wanna drill or weld anything to my frame more than once. "Measure once cut twice" kept ringing in my ears. We were also figuring out a lot of stuff as we went. Everything ended up going together as I origionally visioned it, I just doubted my design so much I went to the garage thinking we would have to start from scratch from my friends ideas. I still want to weld a plate to side of the idler arm bracket to solidify it some more.

Here are the approx parts cost -
1996 F150 IFS setup knuckel to knuckel (frame sections and all) - $150
Machine work - $200 - $250
Payin a friend of a friend off for shop time and help (he had experience w/ steering conversions) due to the freezing cold ~$300 and a set of swirlies

Even though I had someone w/ exp in steering conversions on a F150 to F350, he never did a rack to gear conversion. All my measurements and parts I had made fit exactly, it was amazing how easy the install went after I got over the fear of doing something wrong; however having someone help who has experience in all the tools that you need to use is truely priceless.

Sorry for the late response, I've been extremely busy.

 

[redranger4.0]

You have any updates on this?