Rear hatch alignment help

[hafcanadian]

For several years the main rear hatch on our ‘97 Limited has not always fully latched on the streetside, leaving me to discover a lighted “door ajar” lamp and annoyingly having to exit the car to reset the hatch. Pressing hard on the door’s left edge clicks the latch then, and I usually check that first now whenever I close the hatch. But it still gripes me. I lubed the latch components and seemed to relieve the issue for a couple of months, but it wasn’t permanent.

When I had the car at the shop for other service, I ran it by our tech and he made some minor changes to the left pin bolt position, loosening and retightening it. He couldn’t go too far without noticeably throwing off the alignment of the lower hatch corners with the rear cap body. He didn’t charge for the 10 minutes or so he spent on it. It seemed to be improved then and there.

But since then it still does it most of the time. If I try compensating by closing the hatch with my pushing hand halfway between the left side and the handle, that off-center twist really throws things off, the left latch bouncing away from the pin/bolt an inch or so. So I close it with the handle or push the hatch shut with a hand above or below the handle area. If needed I then may have to press the left hatch edge to get a “click” and know the latch went all the way around the pin/bolt. Usually I can tell by the gap between cap and hatch if it’s fully hooked.

The tech’s idea to move the bolt out (toward the rear) a smidge to supposedly better engage the latch arms seems sensible, but can throw off where the hatch corners meet the cap, leaving one or the other corner proud and not flush. I may try tweaking the bolt again, and more grease that seems to encourage the latch arms to wrap around the pin easier.

Has anyone here any other ideas, such as some other adjustability? Like maybe the bumper below the latch is restricting the latch arms from quite getting all the way around the pin without an extra force?

photos are 1) properly closed, 2) pin/bolt, 3) latch arm component, and 4) incomplete closure.

 

[BKennedy]

I've had to slam mine with my left hand pushing on the lower driver side to get that one to latch for years. My Explorer is a little crooked back there due to a passenger side flop, and the gate doesn't line up very well. As these rigs age, I think things just don't line up like when new.

Yours does look very clean though.

Your hatch might not be straight anymore. It's easy to put a bow or bend just by using it for 20 years.

The sheet metal the post (bolt) is mounted on is thin. Check to see it's not bent or warped. If it is, I think you can get to it from behind the tail light. You can also grab the post with channel locks or slide a piece of pipe over it and bend it straight.

Latch might be failing. They are very easy to replace. Three little bolts.

 

[DintDobbs]

@hafcanadian Hmm, I've got a similar problem with the right side of my Sport (was in a rear-end collision before I got it), but a good slam latches mine correctly. I'd do as @BKennedy said, as well as measure the position of the pin/bolt/stud/whatever-you-call-it in relation to the rear end of the sheet metal (compare left side and right side), and measure the position of the latch assembly on the tailgate (again, compare left and right positions) to make sure they're all similarly placed.

IF both studs are in the same position in relation to the end of the body, AND if both latch assemblies are in the same position on the tailgate, then the tailgate is likely bent or off-center (some times the hinges being bent will cause this issue, when the tailgate is straight).

IF both studs are NOT in the same position in relation to the end of the body, OR if both latch assemblies are NOT in the same position on the tailgate, then the tailgate is probably straight but the hardware is misaligned (they could also possibly have been relocated to accommodate a bent hinge).

Check the conditions and locations of the hardware and let us know what turns up!

 

[Fix4Dirt]

will say the welds in which the hinges are attached to can fail. see my registry they just dont line up anymore and flex everytime ya open the hatch so eventually it keeps tearing and getting worse. have another hatch to go on someday

 

[hafcanadian]

For several years the main rear hatch on our ‘97 Limited has not always fully latched on the streetside, leaving me to discover a lighted “door ajar” lamp and annoyingly having to exit the car to reset the hatch. Pressing hard on the door’s left edge clicks the latch then, and I usually check that first now whenever I close the hatch. But it still gripes me. I lubed the latch components and seemed to relieve the issue for a couple of months, but it wasn’t permanent.

When I had the car at the shop for other service, I ran it by our tech and he made some minor changes to the left pin bolt position, loosening and retightening it. He couldn’t go too far without noticeably throwing off the alignment of the lower hatch corners with the rear cap body. He didn’t charge for the 10 minutes or so he spent on it. It seemed to be improved then and there.

But since then it still does it most of the time. If I try compensating by closing the hatch with my pushing hand halfway between the left side and the handle, that off-center twist really throws things off, the left latch bouncing away from the pin/bolt an inch or so. So I close it with the handle or push the hatch shut with a hand above or below the handle area. If needed I then may have to press the left hatch edge to get a “click” and know the latch went all the way around the pin/bolt. Usually I can tell by the gap between cap and hatch if it’s fully hooked.

The tech’s idea to move the bolt out (toward the rear) a smidge to supposedly better engage the latch arms seems sensible, but can throw off where the hatch corners meet the cap, leaving one or the other corner proud and not flush. I may try tweaking the bolt again, and more grease that seems to encourage the latch arms to wrap around the pin easier.

Has anyone here any other ideas, such as some other adjustability? Like maybe the bumper below the latch is restricting the latch arms from quite getting all the way around the pin without an extra force?

photos are 1) properly closed, 2) pin/bolt, 3) latch arm component, and 4) incomplete closure.

View attachment 436699 View attachment 436701 View attachment 436702 View attachment 436703

 

[hafcanadian]

When time allows I’ll examine things in light of your comments. But it occurs to me also that there are two bolts or hex head screws holding the latch mechanism to the door, and continued use may have kicked it rearward a bit if Those fasteners were no longer tight. I will look into that possibility also, and check the mating rubber bumpers below both the pin and the latch assembly; they appear to be engineered to aid in overall alignment and the one on the door has two screws.

The hinge welds appear to be fine. Although it’s been rear ended twice, damage to the Explorer was minimal due to smaller vehicles striking the heavy tow hitch extending below the bumper, which benefitted from its immediate forward proximity to the spare tire. Essentially cars “bounce off” . Scratch the front ends of one Honda Accord and one Isuzu Trooper whose operators’ assumed we would not stop for yellow lights. Unfortunately my wife needed neck vertebrae surgery later as a result of the Honda. That meant, however, that I got in the habit of checking my rear view when stopping, and so pressed back into my seat and let off the brake when I saw the Isuzu not stopping, thus mitigating some of that impact. Back on topic, those incidents had no obvious or functional affect on the hatch; the latch issue appeared years later.

 

[Mr. Alligator]

Hatch hinge issues seem to be most clearly seen in misalignment of the roof line and the hatch. The hatch will eventually strike the roof line, regardless of adjustment efforts. If the welds for the hatch hinges rust or wear out from metal fatigue or collisions, none of the adjustments will make sense. You will not really be able to see any issue, except for perhaps some mild surface rust near the hinge. The entire hatch system will appear mysterious, despite meticulous efforts to align It. And you just will not be able to see the issue, which is behind the upper hatch sheet metal. Once the hatch metal is structurally solid, these hatches will bolt right on and no adjustment, or very little adjustment, will be needed.

I tried to have mine welded, but this failed. The welder just tacked the upper sheet metal down. Successful welding would require real effort to get under or behind the first layer of sheet metal. @donalds may have had some success doing this…

Salvage hatches and hinges were my solution. You might have to reuse your existing wiper motor and wiring harness if there is any change in models/years. Becareful removing and reinstalling these hatches- they are heavy and a second person would be very helpful. And it seemed that the 98 hatch was significantly lighter than my 97 rear hatch.

Hope your wife recovers well.

Yes, these trucks are tough. I was hit by a much newer Chevy Suburban, and it might have totaled the Suburban. I drove away…

Good luck with this project.

 

[donalds]

Hatch hinge issues seem to be most clearly seen in misalignment of the roof line and the hatch. The hatch will eventually strike the roof line, regardless of adjustment efforts. If the welds for the hatch hinges rust or wear out from metal fatigue or collisions, none of the adjustments will make sense. You will not really be able to see any issue, except for perhaps some mild surface rust near the hinge. The entire hatch system will appear mysterious, despite meticulous efforts to align It. And you just will not be able to see the issue, which is behind the upper hatch sheet metal. Once the hatch metal is structurally solid, these hatches will bolt right on and no adjustment, or very little adjustment, will be needed.

I tried to have mine welded, but this failed. The welder just tacked the upper sheet metal down. Successful welding would require real effort to get under or behind the first layer of sheet metal. @donalds may have had some success doing this…

Salvage hatches and hinges were my solution. You might have to reuse your existing wiper motor and wiring harness if there is any change in models/years. Becareful removing and reinstalling these hatches- they are heavy and a second person would be very helpful. And it seemed that the 98 hatch was significantly lighter than my 97 rear hatch.

Hope your wife recovers well.

Yes, these trucks are tough. I was hit by a much newer Chevy Suburban, and it might have totaled the Suburban. I drove away…

Good luck with this project.

1st thing I did was stand on the bumper and bounce my chest off of the top of the lift gate a bunch of times so that it can bend back
This will restore the gap Then I use the welder to fix the cracks next to the spot welds
A little bit of Oxford white paint to make the welds not rust

The damage to the door is usually done when you're closing it because of the lift gate supports and when you shut the door It will bend the metal in the door

Shut your lift date easier and this will never happen again

Remember stand on the bumper and bounce off of the top of the lift gate on either side of the 3rd brake light with your chest or belly
may need a friend to help I had my son help both of us on the bumper

 

[Fix4Dirt]

1st thing I did was stand on the bumper and bounce my chest off of the top of the lift gate a bunch of times so that it can bend back
This will restore the gap Then I use the welder to fix the cracks next to the spot welds
A little bit of Oxford white paint to make the welds not rust

The damage to the door is usually done when you're closing it because of the lift gate supports and when you shut the door It will bend the metal in the door

Shut your lift date easier and this will never happen again

Remember stand on the bumper and bounce off of the top of the lift gate on either side of the 3rd brake light with your chest or belly
may need a friend to help I had my son help both of us on the bumper

im just imagining doing this now gotta slam the gate on this one though since it wont shut fully without slamming it. may need 3 people in my casenot heavy

 

[donalds]

im just imagining doing this now gotta slam the gate on this one though since it wont shut fully without slamming it. may need 3 people in my casenot heavy

Do a little at a time and then check

Another tip put a pc of masking tape across the gap and as your bouncing on it a little you'll see the progress you are making with the slack in the tape

I'm not a body guy When it comes to cars anyway hehee

 

[Fix4Dirt]

Do a little at a time and then check

Another tip put a pc of masking tape across the gap and as your bouncing on it a little you'll see the progress you are making with the slack in the tape

I'm not a body guy When it comes to cars anyway hehee

im gonna need a few more thanksgiving dinners to get to the point where i can even move it in the slightest haha!!!! maybe thats another thing not he list. have another oxford hatch in the yard, but would rather use my original

 

[Fix4Dirt]

what happens if ya get the specs on a normal non damaged hatch then take affected hatch off and press it in till it gets to the right spot then weld up?

 

[donalds]

Worth a shot

 

[DintDobbs]

@hafcanadian Incidentally, on both of my Explorers, there is a noticeable difference in the gap on the upper half of the tailgate between the left side and the right side; the right side sits farther away from the body than the left side. However, this gap difference does not interfere with the gate closing and latching on either of my Ex's, even after cramming the spare 33" tire in the back of the Sport (it squishes the plastic interior panel a bit when the gate is closed). If anything, on the Sport, the gap difference helps clear the spare tire...

Don't know if this info will be useful to you, but figured I'd spit it out here.

 

[BKennedy]

There was a recall on the lift gates many years ago because the hinge plate would separate from the sheet metal. The dealership would rivet it back in place, but I had welded mine a few years before the recall.

 

[hafcanadian]

Thanks to all who contributed here. Tonight I reinforced the idiom that sometimes the right answer is the simplest one.

I examined the large bumper on the body and its spring loaded companion on the hatch, as well as the latch assembly on the hatch. All were tightly fastened… no looseness in hex screws or component body. And no evidence of corrosion, cracking, or other hinge maladies or alignment up top.

Then I looked really close at the latch pin/bolt where it mounts to the car body and compared it to the one on the right side. I could barely make out the slim ghost around the top edge where the pin had once laid against the body. The pin was down and toward the car front ever so slightly from its original position. There is a curved edge of sheet metal that fits around it, and comparing that to the right side pin confirmed their relative position to that curve was different. So I got my size 50 torx and 1/4” drive, loosened the left pin, snuck it back up and toward the rear until it’s “ghost” was covered and it was up against that curved sheet metal edge, exactly like the right pin’s position, and tightened the pin back down. Easy enough.

Sure enough, the deck now latches completely by simply pushing it anywhere around the door. I would’ve loosened and tried tweaking the latch assembly, but as a second thought caught that clean crescent ghost paint around the top of of the pin. Not bad I reckon for 74 year-old messed up eyes.

I really appreciate all the ideas that you contributed, and the time you attended to it. Door alignment has always been one of those issues that confound me, more often with buildings though. Experience has me now asking for help first before personally digging deep enough into unfamiliar problems to drive me nuts. I’m not sure which way my mechanic moved the pin when he messed with it, but he obviously didn’t notice the factory position. He likely adjusted it front to back, but it dawned on me maybe it was out of position up and down; indeed it was down a smidge. Repeated use, or perhaps one strongman slam, must’ve almost imperceptibly dislodged the pin.

 

[DintDobbs]

@hafcanadian Good going! Not often we see a problem with a simple solution around this forum. Simple doesn't always mean easy, but some times you draw a good hand!

 

[hafcanadian]

I just hope things keep working okay. The pin is snug for the time being, but I wasn’t certain how much torque to put on it. I didn’t want to warp sheet metal anywhere, although there’s likely a stout frame member behind things. Reckon time will tell, but if anyone knows where to find the torque specs for that bolt it would sure help.